Just discovered my pups mum has been bred again

[WetRainbowRoses]

I just feel quite sad and cross about it really.

The advert isn’t available anymore but the timing coupled with the fact my boy is almost 7 months old now, I assume she’s been bred straight away on the next season again.

I feel bad for the bitch but I feel quite personally betrayed and a bit stupid/naive too.

My boy came from a local couple/hobby breeders, just having a few litters from their family pets (I was told that they were undecided whether this would be the bitch’s last litter or if they would have just one more then spay her)

I wanted a puppy from two loved family pets that had been brought up in a home environment, I know without a doubt he was definitely born and raised in their family home, as were this most recent litter I’ve found photographs of, the breeders were quite chatty to me and very forthcoming with regular photos and video clips and I really felt that they really loved their family pets and cared about the puppies and where they ended up, how they got on.

I sent quite a few messages and photographs to his breeder with updates as my boy got older as I thought they’d like to see how their puppy was getting on but after a while I did get the feeling they weren’t really as interested in how his looks had changed or what new tricks he’d learnt etc as I thought they would be.
Despite that, I really was silly enough to put that feeling aside assuming they were maybe busy with work or similar and felt that we all liked and respected each other and they appreciated knowing at least one of the pups definitely had a lovely home.

MIL is really smitten with our boy and I had told the breeder this and asked them to let me know if they decided to have a final litter (before I knew they were back to backing obvs) as MIL would really like a puppy from the same parents and they assured me they would, now, on finding out they’ve bred her again and not bothered to get in touch with me (not that I would have told MIL knowing what I know now) I feel like they are basically viewing their bitch and these puppies just as living money and probably didn’t contact me as they knew they shouldn’t be doing what they are doing and thought I might report them.

I’m questioning now if they were ever bothered at all how my lad was getting on or if it was always purely about the cash.

Im feeling pretty stupid.
I remember my DH rolling his eyes when I mentioned to him that the breeder had said that they might have one more then spay and I had told him not to be like that, they were lovely people and not just breeding for the money. Ugh. 🤦🏻‍♀️

You've obviously tried to do things right, OP. At least it is plain that the breeding is being done in the home environment and the pups and mum are in most respects treated ok, apart from the back-to-back breeding which is obviously not ok.
The sytsem is just fucked though. It shouldn't be possible for 'ordinary' pet owners to make such massive amounts of money from their pets. Personally I wouldn't buy from hobby breeders unless they were friends and knew them well enough to know for a cast iron fact that everything was being done as humanely as it should be.

A properly registered and assessed breeder (like a kennel club assurred breeder) is subject to a level of vetting that ordinary purchasers are not able to carry out. I think these should be the only people allowed to sell puppies.

I'm not particularly a fan of the Kennel Club, and I don't know whether or not their assured breeder is as excellent as I would hope it to be, but when i was buying my pup it seemed like the best option. I wish there was a statutory scheme, backed by the same type of institutional vetereinary infrastructure that is meant to assure livestock welfare.

Try to look forward not backward with your pup, OP. Sounds like he is a great dog and hasn't suffered in any way.

Sorry, that should say " don't know whether or not their assured breeder scheme is as excellent as I would hope it to be" -- I know that the individual breeder I bought from is excellent.

KC is no guarantee of things being done right. Assured breeder isn’t either.
OP just because KC doesn’t say health tests need doing it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be done.

This is what the PDSA recommends.
www.pdsa.org.uk/pet-help-and-advice/looking-after-your-pet/puppies-dogs/small-dogs/chihuahua

KC registration means absolutely nothing. I have a pedigree with only one line of papers. MIL (very important breeder) wanted to breed her and was going to use another KC friends dogs papers. All quite blatant. I obviously refused.

I did feel slightly badly for you until you revealed you bought a brachycephalic dog. Even if it’s less brachycephalic than it could be, it’s still needlessly suffering for your enjoyment.

Stop faffing about and report them.

Sorry but I got really annoyed reading your thread- so much hand wringing and 'oh poor me being tricked' and yet absolute unwillingness to do anything about it.

At the very least a visit from the RSPCA might put them on notice and stop them being so cruel to their bitch.

You are part of the problem buying a dog the way you did and you know it. Irresponsible breeders only do it for profit, and there is only profit because people like yourself want a specific puppy and are willing to pay for it.

Next time choose your pet more responsibly instead of supporting such a problematic practice.

OP, the reality is that around 99% of dogs are bought from what could be perceived as backyard breeders.

And the truth is that a lot of people who mate their family pets do so without malice, even if they do so for profit.

TReality is that the reason why puppy farming and backyard breeding is so prevalent is partly the buyers’ fault. If people weren’t prepared to part with a couple of grand for puppies then as a rule a lot of people wouldn’t breed them. I have said this several times here that it IMO should be illegal to profit from the sale of animals, that way you would. Shut down the puppy farming industry overnight, and would stop an awful lot of the backyard breeders who decide they too will have a litter or two because x down the road made £10k from a litter of 5 puppies…

Ultimately what’s done is done. You bought a puppy from someone whose intentions weren’t as great as you hoped they were, and that person has now gone on to keep breeding.

But the important thing with regards to your own situation is, is the puppy healthy? Are they ok? If so, then enjoy your puppy, and don’t recommend the breeder to anyone else.

People buy from these breeders because they want a dog now people don’t want to wait a year or two for one of the handful of what could be perceived as reputable breeders to have a litter. And rescues gain from never actually allowing anyone to adopt which is why so few people go to them in the first place.

Oh and ignore the nutjob on the previous page who thinks that animals should be placed on the same level as humans .

What are they being reported for? A 2 second Google says you only need to register if you are having 3 or more litters every 12 months. Is there any evidence of that?

'TReality is that the reason why puppy farming and backyard breeding is so prevalent is partly the buyers’ fault. If people weren’t prepared to part with a couple of grand for puppies then as a rule a lot of people wouldn’t breed them. I have said this several times here that it IMO should be illegal to profit from the sale of animals, that way you would. Shut down the puppy farming industry overnight, and would stop an awful lot of the backyard breeders who decide they too will have a litter or two because x down the road made £10k from a litter of 5 puppies… '

I agree

Don't dump all breeders together. I waited eight months for my puppy. All health and DNA tests done and results available on an open website, videos sent at least every day, and yes, they make part of their living from it. I paid a bit over the average for my carefully considered, bred and raised puppy, but better than someone mating their bitch to the random dog down the road. Reputable breeders have waiting lists and don't usually advertise litters.

Regarding KC registration, only one litter per bitch per calendar year can normally be registered, but there is nothing to stop backyard breeders mating a bitch every season and only registering one litter a year. In the near future DNA testing, for identification purposes, will catch a lot of these people who are committing fraud with the paperwork.

It’s a shame that people trying to breed properly get lumped in with the crap ones.

I’ve just spent half an hour responding to one of my puppy people who have run into a couple of training problems with their 4 month old pup. My breed is high energy and can be challenging, I want them to have success and enjoy their dog. I’ve attached videos that I make of training the puppy I’ve kept so that they can see how I’ve tackled the same things. I’ve sent them a detailed response with step by step instructions, links to other resources they can watch.
This is a responsibility I took on for the lifetime of the dogs when I bred a litter, plus the possibility of taking any of them back if needed over the next 12-15 years of their lives. Not everyone breeds to make a quick buck and walk away.

I did feel slightly badly for you until you revealed you bought a brachycephalic dog
I don’t think anyone would really label him brachycephalic looking at him tbh, technically he is because the skull is shortened but he very much has a nose, it’s only slightly shorter than a lab as an example and a not very domed head. He is not ‘extreme’ at all.

he has still needlessly suffering for your enjoyment
He is a very healthy dog actually.

Sorry but I got really annoyed reading your thread- so much hand wringing and 'oh poor me being tricked' and yet absolute unwillingness to do anything about it
Have you ever tried reporting cruelty to the RSPCA?
Because I have.
Unless the camera crews are there or the animals are near death they do not give a shit.
Yes I could report re the tax free money and I might do so yet, I am just concerned that doing so may have repercussions for the dog now that she would be losing them money.
I’m not callous or heartless and if my posts do come across to you as ‘woe is me’, that really isn’t accurate at all.

But the important thing with regards to your own situation is, is the puppy healthy? Are they ok? If so, then enjoy your puppy, and don’t recommend the breeder to anyone else
He is.
He’s a very healthy, sweet kind little lad.
Little shy but not massively so.
And no I wouldn’t ever recommend them to anyone.

Not all breeders are awful! I'm buying a new pup. He is from proven working lines, bred by people who love their bitch and want to continue her line as she is a good gundog. The dog was carefully chosen and the pups have all gone to knowledgeable, known homes (seriously, the interview was intense!). They are health tested and this is the bitches 3rd and final litter (one a year).

It's all very well saying 'get a rescue' and of course it would be, but I have tried for 8months to get somewhere that will even let us apply. We live in a big house, with a massive garden. we are very experienced working breed owners, always someone at home, exercised thoroughly and well trained. However, I have a cat and a very dog savvy child (10). The fact the cat can seriously take care of herself and the child is NEVER (and yes, I mean never) left on her own with the dogs isn't taken into account. All I wanted was a gundog breed under the age of 5!

Sorry OP, sounds like you've believed in the spiel. Don't beat yourself up too much - these people are experts at it.

“ I feel like they are basically viewing their bitch and these puppies just as living money “

Really? You think a breeder thought this- I’m
astounded. Shocked to my core.

This is what all breeders think. Aren’t there enough bloody dogs in the U.K.

These dogs are literally bred to death, over and over again until surplas to requirements. l would never buy a puppy, ever, its irresponsible when so many dogs in rescue centres desperately need rehoming.

Most breeders are unscrupulous. You have been extremely naive.

I volunteer at a dog rescue and we regularly have to take in these poor dogs in, exhausted from years of being used to make money, nipples dragging on the floor, dumped when they are no longer useful to these cunts. If you buy a puppy, you are likely part of the problem. At least you’re aware now and I presume won’t fall for it again. As others have said, these people are experts at fooling people.

Really? You think a breeder thought this
I’m astounded. Shocked to my core
This is what all breeders think. Aren’t there enough bloody dogs in the U.K

Well, if I had decided to have a litter or two out of my dogs (I haven’t!) I wouldn’t be viewing them as mere money makers.
I’d be incredibly choosy as to where the pups were going, I’d be insisting on updates from the new owners.
I certainly wouldn’t be breeding my much loved bitch over and over again every cycle.
So no I don’t think all breeders are the same and no I didn’t think they were the sort to be viewing the dogs just as money making machines at all.

I am interested in the pp who said they ask for pup to be returned as they don’t want you to discover it’s from different lines? What does this mean? I thought it was a sign of a good breeder if they say to return the pup if you can’t look after it?

These dogs are literally bred to death, over and over again until surplas to requirements
I hope not, she’s a lovely little bitch.
They talked about her with such affection aswell, telling me about all her little quirks.
I might put a report in after all, though I doubt the rspca will act

On what basis would the RSPCA act? It’s unethical. Not against the law.
Unfortunately people like this won’t stop unless people refuse to buy from breeders who don’t health test, breed infrequently and selectively.

IME very jaded experience of them, the RSPCA won't do a damn thing, even if the breeders have no licence.

@bollocksthemess, you sound very much like the breeder of my younger dog. She knew me, and I had trained my older dog with her, so I avoided the gruelling interview. She is very open and honest.

@Retq

I am interested in the pp who said they ask for pup to be returned as they don’t want you to discover it’s from different lines? What does this mean? I thought it was a sign of a good breeder if they say to return the pup if you can’t look after it?

You would think that wouldn't you! I have a rescue who is also a pedigree with one line of papers. My MIL (breeder) wanted to breed her which with only one line of papers and overseas ones at that didn't make sense (in the keep the line going etc). She said she would register the pups as being birthed to another KC persons bitch. Had someone purchased a dog and something went wrong any tests would have shown the genetic? difference so the scam would be discovered. You couldn't make up half of what goes on. Breeding for working dogs I don't object to, that's entirely different. Obviously I refused to allow her to be bred because theres more than enough rescue dogs and also because I'm not a scammer.

Interesting thanks

I'd definitely report them @WetRainbowRoses whether they do anything or not I'd report for my peace of mind. They've done something unacceptable, report them.

I had a dog from a wonderful breeder who really would've taken him back when we had unexpected and unrelated to his breed early cancer (she checked we could afford the treatment and looked after him for a few days while we had to go away).