luxating patella

[jujuho]

Hi, my 3 year old frenchie has a luxating patella grade 3. I am petrified for her to be put under anesthetic (many frenchies pass away ). We have been referred via our normal vet to another in Leeds, Franks. I am supposed to be taking her on wednesday this week, but I just dont know what to do. Someone has suggested Hydrotherapy, but does this work to fix a grade 3? I'm just so worried, shes like my child. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

No experience with grade 3 but our dog has bilateral grade 2 , diagnosed when he was about 2 and we’ve managed him with diet and exercise . He’s 12 in a couple of months and perfectly fine . Unfortunately without surgery it’s always going to be a case of managing the condition you won’t actually fix it .

A luxating patella is leading towards a full cruciate ligament rupture which will be an emergency situation. I'd get the luxating patella sorted now in the hope of avoiding a ruptured ligament in the future. I hope you have good insurance!

Thank you. We’re going to go see the surgeon for an assessment tomorrow as we’ve never met her and go from there.

Lola loves walking and running and I just don’t think I can restrict her for the rest of her life so I think I only have 1 option. Will see what the surgeon says tomorrow. Thanks for your message

Hope it goes well @jujuho , when I say we manage ours with diet and exercise I meant we keep him slim ie lots of exercise , we don’t restrict him at all .

Ah ok. Yeah, Lola Is only 9.8kg so I keep her healthy and slim. Our vet said it’s better for recovery too if she’s not overweight. I’ll see what franks say today although she’s definitely not staying with them today as shes just had breakfast 🙈

It is unlikely they'll keep her today anyway, after meeting with the consultant and agreeing to surgery we had a 6 week wait with our labs knee popping out at least once daily. It was a nightmare as one of us had to be home with him all the time to pop the knee back into place for him if it came out.

@WeAllHaveWings thats the difference between the grades I suppose as ours only pops out occasionally and goes back on its own . Must be difficult with a Labrador .

Franks are brilliant. We were referred there when our pup had to have surgery after snapping her kneecap in half. She also has fluxating platela in her other knee which doesn't need surgery just yet but may in the future.

The vet was incredible, the nurses lovely. They kept me updated with regular phone calls and looked after my pooch as if she was theirs. They give detailed after care and follow ups for as long as needed. Couldn't recommend them more!

DDog has been diagnosed with luxating patellae

The most important protective things you can do is keep the dog the right weight and keep her active, though you need to avoid lots of stairs, jumping up on things (fat chance for the sofa! But train out as much as you can) and lots of steep hills - if unavoidable where you live, go gently at the dogs preferred pace not your own walking pace.

I'd always say go with vet advice about whether and when to operate - especially when you're getting a second opinion from a centre of excellence.

Physiotherapy is another option, but I don't know what difference it wouid make at grade 3.

DDog was still an older puppy when it was first spotted, and was on watchful wait with grade 1 on one side and grade 2 on the other. It never popped spontaneously (just when she wobbled on the edge of a raised bed, jumped down off balance and landed badly). So we were very careful with her weight an exercise. She was still growing, and the joints are much more secure now - clear on one side and nearly clear on the other - can still be moved on manipulation by the vet, but with difficulty. If she hadn't been diagnosed before, she probably wouldn't meet the threshold for diagnosis either side now.

So yes they can improve. But aim off - she was never x-rayed so we don't know if there was a skeletal issue (groove too shallow, and I think that can only be improved by surgery) or if it was loose muscle/connective tissue which has stabilised as she finished growing. I don't even know if that's biologically possible!!

Hope all goes well at the appointment today. It's always worse when the patient is a family member who can't explain understand what's going, and who it's impossible to explain to!

[quote Floralnomad]@WeAllHaveWings thats the difference between the grades I suppose as ours only pops out occasionally and goes back on its own . Must be difficult with a Labrador .[/quote]
Must be, our lab was absolutely fine until he was 5 years old. One second he was springing through the long grass like a kangaroo and the next he dropped like a stone squealing. From there in it just popped out randomly, it was a few years back now but think they said it was due to injury rather than genetics so they never discussed a "grade".

A 2-3 months after surgery he was back to his kangaroo antics!

@jujuho how did your appointment go?

My cavalier spaniel had this. We had the surgery done. It was absolutely fine. Recovery was a couple of weeks. Never had a problem after.
He would scream in pain before it was done so definitely worth having it done.
I have worked for a vet for 20 years. Yes the risk for french bulldogs is higher with anaesthetic, but the risk is still low.
It’s also the risk you take with having a brachycephalic breed- they still need the surgery

Hope it all goes well

Hello lovely people. Lola has just come out of surgery and is recovering well. It’s been a loooong morning I can tell you. I get to collect her tomorrow hopefully. She has suffered some erosion which I was shocked about as she only started the “walk walk hop” in January. If she comes out in a cone I know she’s going to hate it🙈any suggestions? This is my baby

Get her a long leg body suit or one of those soft inflatable collars .

When ours had his surgery he had the cone, but he wasnt too bothered with the wound so we took it off during the day with close supervision and put on at night.

We had a stair gate put back on and put boxes on the sofas to stop him from jumping up.

Dh slept downstairs on a single bed mattress for the first week or so to make sure he was ok and wasnt getting up to no good during the night.

We were told to use a towel sling to support his rear end when going out in the garden. That just never worked 🤦🏻‍♀️, but he thankfully managed himself.

Why are people still financially supporting the breeding of suffering dogs

@KidneyBeans

Why are people still financially supporting the breeding of suffering dogs

Best I can come up with is fashion victim and ignorance as no-one fully informed would buy these dogs. It is about time they were completely banned.

Thankfully kennel club registration for Pugs are dropping now but the French Bulldog is still obscenely rocketing.

Why are people still financially supporting the breeding of suffering Dogs
You do realise that luxating patella is a known issue in pretty much all small dogs..?

Including ones that are not very ‘extreme’ at all like jack russells and Yorkshire terriers?

It’s in larger dogs like labradors and German Shepherds too to a lesser degree.

@WetRainbowRoses

Why are people still financially supporting the breeding of suffering Dogs You do realise that luxating patella is a known issue in pretty much all small dogs..?

Including ones that are not very ‘extreme’ at all like jack russells and Yorkshire terriers?

It’s in larger dogs like labradors and German Shepherds too to a lesser degree.

Yes thanks I do. I also know that French bulldogs are French Bulldogs are 42 times more likely to have narrowed nostrils, 30 times more likely to suffer from obstructed airways, 14 times more likely to have ear discharge, 11 times more likely to suffer from skinfold dermatitis and 9 times more likely to suffer a difficult birth because of the shape of their pelvis than other breeds, They are also three times more likely to have respiratory tract or spinal cord disorders, more than twice as likely to have brain or skin disorders, and nearly twice as likely to have ear or reproductive disorders.

They're 2.3x more likely to suffer luxating patellas than other dogs.
Based on that I'd suggest their risk of suffering is significantly more than most other breeds
So I stand by my point thanks @WetRainbowRoses

cgejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40575-021-00112-3/tables/2

@KidneyBeans I don’t dispute any of that, except that they are 2.3 times more likely to have locating patella because LP is best known in Yorkshire terriers, Chihuahuas and Pomeranians and other small and not particularly extreme small breeds like toy poodles and Maltese.
It’s common in all small breeds but those three are the ones that tend to be the most commonly affected and none of those three are particularly ‘extreme’ in their conformation.

This thread was specifically on the subject of patella luxation, which is a well known issue in almost all breeds of small dog.
If it had been about something directly caused by the confirmation of the French bulldog, BOAS for example, or Hemivertebrae I’d have agreed with you.

But Luxating Patella is nearly as well known in small breeds as Hip/elbow dysplasia is in large breeds.
OPs dog could have just easily been pretty much any small breed.

Questions if any vets see this

• are all degrees of luxating patellae a bar to breeding? I have heard that grade 1 isn't, and was wondering if that is true

• is there a good reference page that had a comprehensive list of what screenings should be carried out, by breed, before mating (I realise that good breeders will know what is required for their breed, I was thinking more for a potential purchaser who wants to check all the right things have been done)

are all degrees of luxating patellae a bar to breeding? I have heard that grade 1 isn't, and was wondering if that is true
Not a vet, but luxating patella is genetic.

Grade 1 and 2 are sometimes called intermittent LP and I have seen the Griffon breed club (I think it is) and there are probably others say 1 and 2 is okay for breeding but I’d personally disagree, it’s a genetic fault at the end of the day and costly to fix if the dog needs it.
The operation doesn’t always work either.

Like dysplasia no one knows the mode of inheritance for LP and environment is thought to play a role but breeding a grade 1 or 2 will greatly increase the risk of pups with LP and LP tends to worsen over time so there’s no guarantee a dog diagnosed as a grade 1 will stay a grade 1 forever.

Just as no one would recommend buying a Labrador out of un hip screened parents, I don’t think it’s great buying a small breed from parents that haven’t been patella scored.

That said, the kennel club is extremely behind on LP (health generally tbf)

Most prone breeds have no official recommendation from the breed club or Kennel Club to patella score.

[quote WetRainbowRoses]@KidneyBeans I don’t dispute any of that, except that they are 2.3 times more likely to have locating patella because LP is best known in Yorkshire terriers, Chihuahuas and Pomeranians and other small and not particularly extreme small breeds like toy poodles and Maltese.
It’s common in all small breeds but those three are the ones that tend to be the most commonly affected and none of those three are particularly ‘extreme’ in their conformation.

This thread was specifically on the subject of patella luxation, which is a well known issue in almost all breeds of small dog.
If it had been about something directly caused by the confirmation of the French bulldog, BOAS for example, or Hemivertebrae I’d have agreed with you.

But Luxating Patella is nearly as well known in small breeds as Hip/elbow dysplasia is in large breeds.
OPs dog could have just easily been pretty much any small breed.[/quote]
And my question was why are people still supporting the breeding of suffering dogs?

This is an extreme example of the breed with known risk factors for anaesthesia due to its extreme confirmation.
The extreme confirmation will impact on every aspect of this dog's life.

Sure ignore that if you like, but trying to suggest that the risk of patellar luxation (and the risks of surgery to fix it) is distinct from all of the other issues this breed faces is disingenuous. It is absolutely related to extreme confirmation.

If you don't consider miniaturisation of dog breeds to be extreme then that's up to you. But has it never occurred to you that there's a common reason that medial PL occurs disproportionately in toy breeds?

The breeds you mention are all extreme conformations in terms of size