Border collie for first time dog owner?

[zippyswife]

I have never owned a dog and don’t know much about them.
Dh has owned a dog but works so the training and excercise etc will be down to me.

I’d love to get a dog. I have the time (work part time one day a week which is usually from home). I excercise daily- either walk run or both- generally in woodlands or fields. I have 3 children; 6,9,11.

I love the physical appearance of the border collie, and from what I read tends to be easier to train than some. I see that it requires a lot of exercise, but I believe I can commit to that.

Is a border collie too full on for someone like me- an inexperienced owner/with children?

Ideally I’d like a dog that makes a great pet- good and gentle with children/easy to train/enjoys activity and excercise. Is this a border collie or am I seriously off the mark here?

I’m not someone that usually goes on appearances but I just can’t help being drawn to these! I know I sound superficial- and normally I’m not.

@zippyswife

This is probably (another stupid/novice question) but are cats a definite no with lurches/greyhound/whippets? I’ve always had cats and would like to get another at some point (probably should have mentioned this up thread!)

We had two cats & two lurchers at one point. It worked well because the cats were firmly in charge. They were already adults when we got the lurcher puppies, and the cats enjoyed beating the puppies up at every opportunity, which we did nothing to discourage. They soon got the message that cats had very sharp claws and were to be respected. Result : Domestic harmony.

GOD NO.

Forget the physical appearance! These are an extremely high energy breed, need a lot of stimulation, exercise, attention and training. They will get on top of anyone who can't handle them properly and take you over!
I love them but I have had dogs all my life and grew up with them.

If you get a breed of dog because you like the look of it, that's madness.
Look at what it was BRED TO DO before you chose a pedigree dog. with a mongrel dog, experience will teach you to recognise the breeds in it. Border Collies are herding dogs like German Shepherds - both have guarding instincts. They are bred to herd and run all day and take commands.

We had a collie when I was little, she was beautiful. Red and white with one blue eye. She was also deaf.
I remember us kids being rounded up in the garden and her nipping our ankles when we tried to get away ! And she bit a few people 😕 she was a very nervous dog but not a bad dog

@zippyswife

This is all brilliant advice and much needed.

I have held off getting a dog during the pandemic as I wanted to see life settle back and whether it’s something we can commit to.

You are all very right in saying it’s the temperament and personality that I need to be looking for. It’s common sense- and I’m more than glad to have that pointed out to me.

As some have suggested I’m going to look locally at rescue centres as they appear to be very honest with temperament- ajnd see if I can see one that fits. I think- while the beauty of the BC is tempting, this seems like a more sensible idea!

Try and find a rescue that fosters so you can see what the dog is like in a real life situation and prepare to be patient. Some of them are really picky.

That all said, someone's just mentioned King Charles Cavalier, my friend has one and she's the sweetest dog in the whole wide world. They aren't always the healthiest though, but honestly she's brilliant. Funny, small enough for the youngest kids to walk on lead, and just devoted to the family.

She does a proper huff when she is sent somewhere else when they're on holiday though which is also very funny.

A really good book that will help you is Kim Brophy

Meet your dog

Clearly explains what each bred needs to be happy and what living with them willbe like.

I had a border collie as a teenager. God, we were terrible dog owners, my parents had no involvement and we didn't really know what to do. I don't think I've ever loved a living thing so much. He was like a person. But he needed absolutely constant attention, exercise, stimulation and training. We gave him tonnes of exercise (I had an eating disorder, so the long runs in the woods were my "oh but it was for the dog), but he would round up bikes, children, cars, postmen...

I think you will struggle to find a rescue with a dog they will rehomed with children and cats.
We tried for a while.
They wouldn't rehome a pointy dog with cats, I didn't want a bull breed, and there was no other dogs in the time we were looking, that were suitable to live with children.

Get a lab op.

We have a golden retriever - we got him when our dc were 3, 5 and 6 and he has been fantastic. He loves a long walk but is very chilled and easy around the house too, fantastic with the dc (never given me a moment of concern). He is clever enough, but not so clever that he needs constant stimulation. We have a working lab puppy, who is obviously much more bright, also more needy, but I can already see that he will also be a fantastic dog.

@zippyswife

Reading up Vislas and labs look like good options?

Lurches are lovely dogs to have.

Only an hour a day cuts out a lot of breeds imo. That’s not very long. I have a couple of lazy cockers and they still get a couple of hours a day even the old boy. Definitely discard working breeds. Worth looking at a rescue because they should pair you correctly.

They are easy to train, they learn very fast, but the flip side is they learn bad habits fast too!

You need a trainer experienced in collies, I made that mistake, and do not over exercise, their brains need exercising, they need a job rather than just miles of exercise so agility, fly ball etc are a good idea.

@MotherCupboard

They are bred to work all day. ALL DAY. They need a job to do and a border collie who isn't given a job will find his own fun. When you say you can give it exercise, how much? Because an hour or two a day won't be enough.

I agree with this. A collie can run 50 miles a day that is what they are most happy doing. We had a bc for our first dog from a pup with 3 young kids. She had 2 off lead walks over fields and woods every day without fail but she was never content and I always felt I was short changing her That's said she was a beautiful dog lovely with the kids but was strict with them about leaving her alone when on her bed as she did snap a few times. They can be snappy ! And very nippy when young. My opinion is that they should be a working dog and as much as we lived her we would not get another. That level of exercise is hard to maintain with a busy family life

We’re first time dog owners (although DH grew up with them) and we have a border collie. Tbh I’ve approached her as a project as much as a pet! She goes to agility daycare twice a week and then we have several people who do daycare/walks for us which costs about £100 a week all in…. However she is wonderful, cuddly and affectionate in the house, but definitely needs her massive amounts of exercise. We also meet up with in-laws regularly who have a working cocker spaniel who is similarly energetic and the two of them chase each other for hours! She is incredibly good on walks, recall is amazing, totally focused on us, no prey drive (cats and squirrels can walk past her and she doesn’t even blink) but can be ball obsessed. She’s quite hard work but we adore her. We only have one DS, and although both work full time DH works shifts so can spend lots of time with her during the week.

Have seen a couple of mentions of lurchers and wanted to add a word of warning.
Lurcher puppies tend to be very full on, teenage years can be interesting, prey drive is challenging.
Wonderful dogs, but like any they need research and careful look into their breeding - anecdotally bull lurcher types can be more reactive (mine certainly is), recall can be sketchy.

In your shoes I’d look into whippets.

I second avoiding a collie they NEED to work in most cases,and belong on a farm, and there is no way you could accomodate those needs.

However a show cocker is a lovely first dog, avoid working cockers, lab, vzla, and sheltie are lovely and easier dogs.

I know a few people with vizlas and they don’t look that easy. Very energetic and bouncy. Often have separation anxiety and can be quite nervy and barky. The labs look easier in comparison

Shelties and rough collies also require a lot of engagement and exercise. Beautiful dogs, mind. My only reservation with shelties is that IMO they can be snappy. All collies can also become over-attached to one family member and be quite jealous of them, unless carefully trained

I'm a border collie owner again (Having previously had roughs, a border, a kelpie and mixes of the above) and so biased. They make wonderful pets but require a lot of love, time and training.

If you did get a border, from about 10-12 months you could do the couch25k programme with her to train her to run with you (probably doubling up each week just to make sure she wasn't overtaxed).

And yy to @gogohm, there's definitely a risk of overexercising with borders. Brain games, agility etc will wear them out equally without being so hard on their joints. If you let one run 50 miles a day, that is a dog who is probably going to be crippled with arthritis when she is 10.

Two long walks plus garden time and brain games is better than letting them run and run and run.

No, imo a collie is definitely not for a first time dog owner. They are very intelligent and need not only physical but mental stimulation. They need to be on the go all the time and need a 'job' to keep them satisfied. Most collies also have a strong hearding instinct so are not great with kids, they will often chase/nip at them when kids run around. I grew up with working collies and have had them all my life, I have a friend who currently very much regrets getting a collie puppy and is looking to at-home

My sister had a collie as her first (and only) dog. She was absolutely gorgeous, so trustworthy. She used to herd our children on the beach and steer our toddlers away from the water to keep them safe. They are such gorgeous dogs.

I love collies, I grew up with them. But in all the dogs I've fostered it has been the collie crosses who have pushed me to the absolute edge. The collie neuroticism and intelligence is really hard work, and you have to work all the time to head it off from the wrong path.
I have two lurchers of my own and 3 cats, and have introduced new cats into the household who haven't lived with dogs before. This evening we will have two new foster puppies too.

Hi OP, I'm a dog Walker and also volunteer with the dogs trust rehoming section.

it sounds like you have already reconsidered the border collie which I think is sensible. They are fab dogs but have busy brains and are very clever. They are often known as 'the dog that needs a job to do' and don't cope well with boredom. Compared to other dogs they can be less tolerant of children- no dog should have to put up with difficult behaviour from children but you do need to bear this in mind.

You mentioned a vizsla up thread, they are stunning dogs but need a lot of stimulation in addition to a lot of exercise and can become quite unhappy and destructive if this is not supplied in abundance. They tend to be more highly strung than some other dogs.

You also asked about greyhounds, lurchers etc. with regard to cats. These dogs are sight hounds, this means they hunt by sight and speed rather than primarily scent- so they have an inbuilt trait of wanting to chase and kill small furry things that move quickly. You will hear of examples of these dogs living happily with cats, but in my opinion it is a risk not worth taking. Sadly we do hear about dogs like these who have existed with family cats but have found themselves triggered by sudden movement and instinct has kicked in whereby they chase and kill the cat. They can't help it, it is in their DNA.

Also, Whilst it is true that these dogs love cuddles and chilling all day, in terms of walking their needs can be quite complex – often they need to be kept muzzled and on lead because of their propensity to chase things at great speed.

My suggestion to you would be a golden retriever or a Labrador. Many people feel working lines are less suitable than show lines, I actually prefer the working lines they are smaller and finer and their joints fair better with age. I have found both types very easy to train compared to other dogs. They tend to be good-natured, easy to train, enjoyable to walk and an all round good family dog.

Finally, I hope you don't mind me saying that I noticed you mention running potentially with your dog. This is something that it is worth being careful about. Human type running i.e. running without stopping on hard ground can be quite harmful to dogs. They will love the exercise and it will tire them out but it is quite hard on their joints and it is not a natural way for them to travel. Left to their own devices they tend to stop quite frequently to sniff and explore rather than running for long distances. I hope that makes sense.

Good luck with your search for a dog, they are the most wonderful addition our lives.

N.B.I apologise to anyone who owns any of the breeds I have mentioned and disagrees with myThoughts. They are based on trends that are seen within the dog world, plus traits that are working each type of different due to genetics. I accept that there will always be exceptions to these trends. However, I feel it is sensible to bear them in mind when making the important choice about owning a dog.

I have Vizslas, I would say they’re manageable for motivated first time owners without kids, harder for first time owners with kids. Mine have an hour a day mostly off lead with plenty of training mixed in. They are not at all destructive and can be left easily.
You don’t need to have them out for hours, although they will go as long as you want them to. They are quite interactive in the house though, they will follow you around checking out what you’re doing all the time.
I’d get a nice show bred golden retriever if I were you. My sister has two, plus cats, chickens, ducks and two house rabbits that roam free. Won’t eat your future cat, they like a walk but just lie around the house otherwise. One of hers goes for regular sleepovers at her friend’s house who has 5 and 7 year old kids and they hang out and watch films together until my sister picks her up the next day.
They’re a bit dopey for me after my Vizslas but they’re perfect for first time dog owners.

@pumpkinpie01

Not a very common mix but honestly one really worth looking into is a lab crossed with a kelpie ( Australian sheepdog ) . They look like smaller labs . Short haired , food driven ,v clever so easy to train , affectionate, non reactive to other dogs . Loves lots of walks but will equally chill . We are on our second as I really couldn't think of a breed to match our old dog . There aren't many about thou the common mix seems to be a kelpie/collie .

Kelpies are even more full on than border collies. They are bred to work all day and often independently of their owners. They are incredibly intelligent. They're not as biddable as collies and are a lot of work. Sounds like your kelpie/labs have had lab temperament. I have had kelpies and kelpie crosses my whole life, their my favourite breed but everything people are saying about border collies on this thread applies even more so to kelpies.