Is it the right time to say goodbye?

[Acupofteaplease]

I know there's lots of threads on this, and generally the answer is you'll just know. But we just don't!

We have a lovely, old greyhound who's 13 and a half, she's been struggling with various things from old age since about August when she started showing signs of dementia and her back legs seemed to be a little weaker. She was put on various medications for pain relief and arthritis, none of which seemed to do anything so we eventually stopped and have just left her on yumove, not sure it helps at all but it can't hurt.

We have since realised its either degenerative myelopathy or some other nerve damage as the last two months she shuffles her back legs more, and her feet drag (you can hear it on the hard floors and pavements). Shes been incontinent at night both wees and poos for about 4 or 5 months now, but we've dealt with it by just putting puppy pads down on the floor each night and having spare washable beds.( 5 or 6 out of 7 nights shes had accidents in the night.) Its just become a routine now . The last few days her back foot has knuckled under quite a few times at home, she's struggled more when getting up from her bed, weve had to help her a few times as she just couldn't seem to manage from certain positions. And this morning my husband came down and she'd weed and pood on her bed and was still laying on it 😥

She still loves food, her dementia means that she thinks we haven't fed her even immediately after she's been fed! She can still do very short walks, but does sometimes stumble or loses her back legs momentarily and she still loves a fuss.
This is what is making it so hard to know if the time is right.

After this morning I just wondered if we should be thinking about having her put to sleep soon. Her legs are only going to get worse over the next months and I feel like we are just waiting until she cant get up at all to make the decision 😩 is that right? is it wrong? I just dont know 😩 im worried about leaving it too long but also worried about doing it too soon.

Sorry, thats such an essay but I wanted to make sure I said it all so anyone can give me advice on what you'd do in this situation.

Thanks in advance

My 14 year old JRT cross had exactly the same range of problems OP - DM, double incontinence and dementia. He was also aggressive and bit me twice so badly that I needed antibiotics. But he still enjoyed his walks and sniffs and still seemed to really enjoy life. I finally made the decision to PTS when I found him splayed out on the floor on top of his wee because he couldn’t get up. It was so hard but I knew it was only going to get worse. Everyone said I’d know when the time was right and I did. My vet was wonderful and supportive and a month on I knew I did the right thing. I miss him every day but know he’d be grateful I spared him unnecessary suffering.

@Acupofteaplease, how are things going with your girl?

Dh has just got back with our boy from his latest vet appointment (I wasn’t able to go because I am not well enough). I was anxious enough that I wasn’t going to be there, but then he ended up having to see a different vet!

As it turned out it was ok, as it meant we were able to get a second opinion/fresh perspective.

Dh said the vet was shocked when he trotted in, as she said she was expecting to see a very old, poorly looking dog shuffle in and he wasn’t like that at all. (He really isn’t, he is still alert and very interested in everything around him.) I think, having read his notes regarding his issues, she was expecting to have a difficult conversation with dh.

She gave him a really thorough check-up and her conclusion was that he is doing really well for a dog of his age, especially with his issues and reassuringly, she has no serious worries and is happy for us to keep on monitoring him. Obviously, with the caveat that we need to know and be sure of our red-lines and go back at the first hint of anything changing.

I have to admit, I am relieved, as the constant second guessing myself is exhausting, so it’s good to hear it from two different vets that they don’t think it’s time yet and that they are happy with his quality of life for now.

How are you OP?

Hi, sorry I havent checked back on here for a while. We've been plodding a long much the same the last month since the appointment. Her incontinentence at nighttime has only got worse and this morning we made the decision to book the date for being put to sleep at home. Im just waiting to hear back, but it should be 2 weeks today so we have some time to do some nice things and lots of cuddles and treats. It has become so difficult for us, with a young family and I feel like we are carrying on when all of us are struggling with how things are. She is 13 and a half this month, so she's done well. I think we will be riddled with guilt and overthinking it but I also think we know that its the best thing now. How is everyone else doing and dealing with things?

Our appointment is booked for next week but we just feel so horrifically guilty about it still. She has moments where she's all happy or excited for her little walk still, she still cant get enough of her cuddles- and I think are we doing this far too soon and feel awful. But then I see her try and get up in the evening and I can see her have to pysche herself up for 5 minutes before she manages to stand, she's still incontinent at night and we have to let her out hourly in the day to avoid accidents and she still drags and knuckles her feet under. The vet seemed to be saying wait until she cant stand up herself at all last time we saw him, but I never fully felt happy with that idea of leaving it until that point. Some days are better and some days are not. On Saturday she looked so sad and kept getting up restless, yet yesterday she had a more content day. I feel like I'm driving myself crazy wondering if I should cancel the appointment now and wait or if it will always feel this hard to make the decision. We really thought it was the time, but its so hard to think we might be doing it too early and being unfair on her.

Sorry you’re having such a difficult time.

On the basis of it being an irreversible decision I would probably postpone the appointment while you’re having doubts. Showing pleasure and excitement for walks, food and cuddles would make me think perhaps it isn’t her time yet.

While fully bearing in mind not to leave it too late, I’m also conscious that I’m not sending my pets off to doggy heaven. They get one life here, as we all do, and I’d hate to cut it short.

I don't think it's fair to the animal to keep it alive if it's incontinent. Poor thing. OP I think it's time. And I think if you're querying it, then it's time or almost time.

I do believe that phrase which gets used "better a week to early than a day too late"

Thanks for your reply. I'm honestly so torn, but part of me thinks to cancel and part of me thinks that with all her problems its always going to be this horribly, difficult decision until we have already reached the point where I will probably wish we had done it earlier. I dont know if that makes sense. We are also supposed to be away for a week at Easter (postponed from last 2 years because of covid - i wouldnt ever have booked it now knowing the stage we are at) its a lot to put upon family to care for her as she is, and also I worry about it happening whilst we are gone and family are worried about something happening whilst we are gone or her getting injured as she's frail. I know this shouldn't affect our decision, but it is probably having an impact.

Thanks @GooGooDolls this phrase is what keeps going over in my mind. I want her to have a comfortable and peaceful death at home with us around her like she deserves. I dont want her to be in awful pain and unable to move at all, then have to be rushed to the vet. I just dont know how we can ever get over this feeling of not being sure its right.

@Acupofteaplease

Thanks *@GooGooDolls* this phrase is what keeps going over in my mind. I want her to have a comfortable and peaceful death at home with us around her like she deserves. I dont want her to be in awful pain and unable to move at all, then have to be rushed to the vet. I just dont know how we can ever get over this feeling of not being sure its right.

@Acupofteaplease I have to say I've never been in this situation myself (although saw my mum go through it twice) and I assume will have to face it with my own dog one day. But when I see that quote, I truly believe it, as I believe in euthanasia for humans.

Whatever your decision, it's a brave one. And I wish you all the best with your decision and I give you a virtual hug. Whatever you decide, it will be the right one - I promise you that, because you're making this decision with the utmost thought. Please take care of yourself.

I honestly think the idea that there is a 'right' time is more damaging than useful. I don't think there is an exact right time - I think there is a window of time in which putting a dog to sleep is a kind and appropriate option for their quality of life and death.

As someone who PTS a dog three weeks ago tomorrow, who was in a similar way with similar problems (and had some good times, some not-so-good times), I think the worry about it being 'right' goes away almost immediately after it is done. We all agonised about it and even on the day, I think if any of us had tried to back out, we'd all have tumbled like a house of cards - so tempting was it to keep him a bit longer.

Now he has gone, I see that it was an appropriate time to make that decision and that while we may have cut short some nice times, we also made sure that he never suffered any especially bad times. That was the final gift we gave him: we understood the kind of dog he was (one who was naturally a bit nervous and frightened and would have easily become more so as his faculties faded further) and spared him from it.

OP, please don't torture yourself wondering if it right or not. Make the best and most compassionate decision you can, then trust yourself. The fact that you have loved and cared for you dog and then thought so hard about this decison, already means she was a lucky dog in a lovely home surrounded by a loving family. She is already one of the lucky ones.

I know exactly how you feel. My dog was 12 with incurable, inoperable cancer. He was so ill but we held on because it felt so wrong. How can we know that he is ready to go? When he still wags his tail when we come in the room, surely that means he is happy?

We held on until the point that he couldn't physically swallow anymore, and then we knew. He couldn't eat so he couldn't survive. But after he was gone, we realised we had probably caused him to suffer longer than necessary just to keep us from losing him. He was so ill...

It feels all kinds of wrong to have to decide when it's time for your pet to leave this world, but if you truly love them, you won't let them suffer. I shouldn't have.

@SirSniffsAlot

I honestly think the idea that there is a 'right' time is more damaging than useful. I don't think there is an exact right time - I think there is a window of time in which putting a dog to sleep is a kind and appropriate option for their quality of life and death.

As someone who PTS a dog three weeks ago tomorrow, who was in a similar way with similar problems (and had some good times, some not-so-good times), I think the worry about it being 'right' goes away almost immediately after it is done. We all agonised about it and even on the day, I think if any of us had tried to back out, we'd all have tumbled like a house of cards - so tempting was it to keep him a bit longer.

Now he has gone, I see that it was an appropriate time to make that decision and that while we may have cut short some nice times, we also made sure that he never suffered any especially bad times. That was the final gift we gave him: we understood the kind of dog he was (one who was naturally a bit nervous and frightened and would have easily become more so as his faculties faded further) and spared him from it.

OP, please don't torture yourself wondering if it right or not. Make the best and most compassionate decision you can, then trust yourself. The fact that you have loved and cared for you dog and then thought so hard about this decison, already means she was a lucky dog in a lovely home surrounded by a loving family. She is already one of the lucky ones.

I would agree with this.

As you know, my old lad was very similar to your girl symptom-wise. We had almost booked the appointment twice, then backed-out because he appeared to rally.

Now he’s been gone almost a week and I’ve accepted it was the right decision. I’ve noticed all the things I was doing almost unconsciously, outside of meds, toileting, feeding, physical help etc. How I was walking on eggshells trying not to wake him, because I wanted him to get lots of good quality rest. Things as simple as keeping the curtains closed until lunch-time, turning my coaster over to the cork side so my coffee cup didn’t clink when I put it down and closing my laptop as quietly as possible, also leaving the door slightly ajar because the sound of the door-handle would wake him. It feels very odd not to need to do those things anymore and I keep finding myself doing them without thinking, but that has brought a realisation of just how much we lived our lives around his needs.

We were able to keep him happy and comfortable through massive adjustments to our own lives, but on the day we made the appointment my husband said to me ‘he will never have a better day than today’ and he was right. He may have brighter moments or happy times, but he was declining and could have had a catastrophic/emergency situation at any time, which wasn’t what we wanted for him. We wanted him to go peacefully to sleep, surrounded by love, after a long and happy life.

I thought I would regret it, but if I am truthful I am glad we spared him that emergency/serious event and he had a dignified, peaceful end.

There is no one right time, not all dogs will ‘tell you’ , as some people insist they will. Dogs are stoic and they try to please their family by doing things they know have made them happy in the past. Unfortunately that only makes this decision even harder to fathom. Only you know your girl and ultimately no-one on here has the right to tell you you should/shouldn’t go ahead.

I would say, trust your heart and instincts and make the decision as a family. We sat down together to talk about our feelings around it and then I spoke to each of the dc on their own. That helped crystallise things and I was surprised that my dc were more prepared and accepting than I thought they would be.

Whatever you decide, it will be a decision made out of love and I wish you and your family all the strength they need to get through this.

If it helps with your decision, I think we left it too long with our dog. He'd have bad days, but then he'd rally a bit the next and we worried that it was too soon. I think he suffered at the end. I feel very guilty about it.

@Acupofteaplease
I liked what @PermanentlyDizzy and @SirSniffsAlot say upthread about the idea of a the perfect time being nigh impossible to judge and ultimately damaging.
We let our darling girl go on Sunday. Selfishly we desperately wanted to keep her but it was time. Possibly a day or two too late but her final days she walked by the sea, actively chose to snuggle up to us was hand fed, petted and ultimately died at home in our arms.

Thanks for the lovely, kind replies, so helpful and have helped me feel a little less anxious and rubbish. Thank you @PermanentlyDizzy I was hoping that you might comment as you've just been through it and were in a similar position. I hope you are all managing ok.x

So sorry OP- what a gorgeous dog, a very elegant looking lady ❤
It's the worst thing about owning a pet; when that awful day comes.
Best wishes to all who have been/are in a similar position. Have been there and it hurts like mad

Thinking of you all in this position. I'm close to it too. My 15 year old lurcher is starting to fail. He still manages walks but is incontinent sometimes. So I think we have some time left but I'm dreading the inevitable. He looks so pitiful bless him. He's loved by so many. He hates toddlers as he was a rescue and something must have happened? But we managed to keep dgss and him separate until they were old enough. He cba to bother now even if they were small

I just keep thinking if he'd gone to anyone else he may not have had such a long life. He was an absolute pain when I got him. He'd been returned a few times. I just trained him and apart from toddler hate he's been lovely.

@extinoxaurus im so sorry to hear that. What a lovely last few days she had though. Big hugs for you.x

@Etinoxaurus that should say

@Juniper68 aw bless him and well done for managing the situation and giving him a good home.
When I think back to how our pooch was when we first got her, its like a different dog. She was terrified of everything and anything - plastic bags, vans, car doors. She had never been on a walk before as she was an ex racer and she was already 4 when we got her. So much wasted time, poor thing. For 3 months she wouldn't lay in the same room as us in the evening. She's now the most loving, calm dog you'd ever meet.
I hope that's because she's had a nice life with us. I'm glad we could give her a life that was so different from racing. I just can't imagine her not being here 😢

@Acupofteaplease thank you.
@canicross please, please don’t have any regrets. What you did you did out of love and hope. Don’t taint all the lovely memories you have with misplaced guilt.
Our darlings are pain free now.

Our lovely girl went to sleep this morning. She was just the best dog we could ever have hoped for. Absolutely heartbroken and can't stop crying.
I hope she's running across the Meadows at 40mph again, pain free and young. And I can't wait to see her again when my time comes.
Thank you all for your advice the last month.x

Sending lots of love, it sounds like she had such a lovely family, sleep well beautiful girl

OP I am crying just reading this. I do know how you feel, it is awful for you but she had a fantastic time with you and now enjoying her zoomies! Hand hold and love for you from me, a Lurcher lover xx