Is it the right time to say goodbye?

[Acupofteaplease]

I know there's lots of threads on this, and generally the answer is you'll just know. But we just don't!

We have a lovely, old greyhound who's 13 and a half, she's been struggling with various things from old age since about August when she started showing signs of dementia and her back legs seemed to be a little weaker. She was put on various medications for pain relief and arthritis, none of which seemed to do anything so we eventually stopped and have just left her on yumove, not sure it helps at all but it can't hurt.

We have since realised its either degenerative myelopathy or some other nerve damage as the last two months she shuffles her back legs more, and her feet drag (you can hear it on the hard floors and pavements). Shes been incontinent at night both wees and poos for about 4 or 5 months now, but we've dealt with it by just putting puppy pads down on the floor each night and having spare washable beds.( 5 or 6 out of 7 nights shes had accidents in the night.) Its just become a routine now . The last few days her back foot has knuckled under quite a few times at home, she's struggled more when getting up from her bed, weve had to help her a few times as she just couldn't seem to manage from certain positions. And this morning my husband came down and she'd weed and pood on her bed and was still laying on it 😥

She still loves food, her dementia means that she thinks we haven't fed her even immediately after she's been fed! She can still do very short walks, but does sometimes stumble or loses her back legs momentarily and she still loves a fuss.
This is what is making it so hard to know if the time is right.

After this morning I just wondered if we should be thinking about having her put to sleep soon. Her legs are only going to get worse over the next months and I feel like we are just waiting until she cant get up at all to make the decision 😩 is that right? is it wrong? I just dont know 😩 im worried about leaving it too long but also worried about doing it too soon.

Sorry, thats such an essay but I wanted to make sure I said it all so anyone can give me advice on what you'd do in this situation.

Thanks in advance

I am so sorry to everyone facing this.

I’m here too. My ddog has dementia has had strokes and he’s now got a tremor. And anal fissures. And needs a dental but he’s not well enough. And he’s only a small dog and he’s lost weight so has weekly weigh ins

I was at the vet and asked straight out was it time and the vet said he didn’t think so not yet.

But I know it’s coming. It’ll be weeks or months and I just feel so overwhelmed with making the decision.

💐
How are we all in the virtual waiting room?
Ddog has had a good week after last week’s adventure (she trotted down the road having needed helping up on the sofa recently 😬)
We left her home alone for the first time in months today and returned to find her fast asleep where we left her, no accidents and she’s snuggled up next to me now.

@Etinoxaurus good to hear your girl is doing ok.

My boy has had a really good week. He’s enjoyed a few little walks, managed his kong wobbler, as well as his snuffle mat, every day and had the energy for a few garden dashes.

He’s been generally steadier on his feed, so much more alert and in his own head and physically so different from the previous two weeks that we’re wondering whether what is different. All I can think is that one of his suspected focal seizures may have been worse and taken longer to recover from or was in fact a TIA rather than a seizure.

Can’t believe that this time last week we were ready to say goodbye. It’s really messing with our heads to be honest.

[quote PermanentlyDizzy]@Etinoxaurus good to hear your girl is doing ok.

My boy has had a really good week. He’s enjoyed a few little walks, managed his kong wobbler, as well as his snuffle mat, every day and had the energy for a few garden dashes.

He’s been generally steadier on his feed, so much more alert and in his own head and physically so different from the previous two weeks that we’re wondering whether what is different. All I can think is that one of his suspected focal seizures may have been worse and taken longer to recover from or was in fact a TIA rather than a seizure.

Can’t believe that this time last week we were ready to say goodbye. It’s really messing with our heads to be honest.[/quote]
It’s exhausting isn’t it!
Every Friday we joke about her propensity to have a crisis over the expensive weekend. Wfh and lockdowns have been wonderful for her and she’s rarely alone. A slight complication is that the children are all away. 2 live locally, but another is 7hours away in the final year at university, so we’re balancing not denying him the chance to say goodbye v distracting him.

Gosh this thread is so close to my predicament. My lovely 14.5 year old spaniel had a spinal disc injury last year. She recovered with a couple of dry backs along the way, and has just been left with degenerative disc changes. She recently had an episode of vestibular disease and definitely has some dementia.

She’s kept an enthusiastic appetite throughout and when she goes for a walk she has an enthusiastic trot despite the stiffness and changes to her gait.

She has accidents most nights but isn’t affected by this and having dealt with incontinence with a relative it wouldn’t be a reason to PTS for me. I just accept it’s one of those things and clean up.

I don’t know when the time is right but I don’t feel it’s now. I know it’s close. I’m lucky to have a vet who I trust implicitly, he said it isn’t her time yet. It’s very difficult. I feel a huge sense of anticipatory grief, then feel guilty for not just enjoying the time we have now.

There are five of us and we have someone home 24/7, so that does really help. The complication now is that dh is back at the office, including an overnight once a week and I am really worried the end will come suddenly when he’s not here.

Also lucky that our vets still do in-house emergency care. So, although it is more expensive than normal office hours, it’s not the prices I have seen some people having to pay recently. During the week the local branch is a 2 minute walk from my front door and they have been fabulous even seeing my dogs in emergencies between surgeries in the daytime over the years. Out of hours evening/weekend care is at the main surgery/hospital, which is only 10 minutes by car. Other than when we moved away for a few years, all my dogs from 1989 onwards have been cared for by them.

Sadly, my dc have seen a few of our dogs leave us over the years, so they do know what to expect, but it doesn’t make it any easier. When I spoke to my youngest (13) about us potentially taking him to the vets last Thursday evening, she felt she would manage school on Thursday, but wouldn’t be able to face Friday, as she has a particularly nasty teacher on that day and she doesn’t want to cry in class.

Set backs, not dry backs!

@CherryBlossomCheer We are the same. We don’t know when, but we do know it’s not quite yet and our vet, who we trust, agrees.

My boy doesn’t notice his accidents in the house and as long as it doesn’t worry him, it’s not a good enough reason for me either. Although, thankfully, he hasn’t had any accidents at all this week.

I also have the waves of anticipatory grief, plus the guilt of not being able to just enjoy what time we have left.

I keep looking back at the milestones over the past 18 months or so, at each date I thought he wouldn’t be here for, but then he was and try to be grateful for those.

@acupofteaplease I am so sorry you are going through this, it is so hard to know what is best for them, especially when it causes you so much pain to make the decision.

When I read your first post it could of been describing my beautiful girl, she was nearly 13 as well. Started with what you are describing, then one day she couldn't get up, was crying in pain. Vets came out and gave her lots of meds, thought it could be a nerve problem, she needed stabilising to get her in for an xray.

When we did manage to get her in a few days later, it turned out to be her bones were completely full of cancer. They said she would of been in alot of pain and the kindest thing to do was put her to sleep while still under sedation. We went straight up to be with her, completely broke my heart. She was my 1st ever dog and was like no other, I still miss her everyday. But I can now think back fondly and without being upset.

I do wish we had done it earlier, only because I hate the thought of her suffering. What ever you do will be the right choice for you and your girl. Be gentle on yourself

yes, I am sorry - better a week too early than a day too late. She already sounds like she is struggling, it is kinder to let her go than keep her here for her humans.

Honestly, when a dogs legs go and is incontinent then I'd say time to let her go peacefully. I agree with other posters that it is better to happen before it gets worse. So hard when they wag their tail still - I've done it twice and it torn me apart, but I made the best decision for them. Sorry your facing this.

It's horribly sad but you are not doing your dog a kindness here. Sorry to sound harsh but she is doubly incontinent and her legs are going.

Please don't keep her going until she's in great pain.

Just catching up with the comments, thanks. And I'm glad some of you have had better more positive weeks. Ours had been mostly the same, her walking had probably been a little better and less dragging this week actually. So yesterday we took her for a lovely, slightly longer walk with the family and she did really well, not too much dragging and tripping at all and she loved it. It had me thinking its definitely not the right time and maybe we could make it until the spring.

Yesterday evening though she wasn't able to get up on her own at all and poo'd herself on her bed without knowing and as she tried to get up. We managed to get her up and she was OK but it was very sad. She's getting up and down stiffly as normal today but able to do it herself. But last night made me feel like maybe now is the time. Its so up and down, its just totally confusing. We have an appointment to talk with the vet tomorrow, im not even sure what to say.

Here she is doing times tables with my son this afternoon

Shes so beautiful OP. What a lovely girl

@Branleuse she is, she's an absolute gem. We got her as an ex racer at 4 and she was terrified of everything and anything and she just developed into the most affectionate, gentle soul

Oh she is absolutely gorgeous. Im glad that although her evening wasn't great, you had a good day with her yesterday and she was able to enjoy her walk.

Oh she’s beautiful!

Glad she got to enjoy a longer walk, but the pooing in the bed etc, does sound a lot for her to deal with.

Dh and I had another talk yesterday and it reaffirmed that we both feel, if our boy isn’t able to get up on his own or becomes properly incontinent, that would be a definite final red line for us. As it is, at the moment, he just tends to retain a little bit when he’s gone in the garden and doesn’t realise there’s a bit more to do, so ends up dropping it when he comes back in and he’s had a couple of times when he’s bizarrely just started going while he’s eating without noticing. I guess that’s peristalsis kicking in early? He’s only had one wee accident and that was when we didn’t realise he was asking to go out, rather than nagging for his bedtime ‘sweeties’ (meds) so our fault really.

He’s still managing the back doorstep ok and back to having at least one geriatric zoomie session a day for now, but if he reaches the point that he needs us to help him up and down the step or on/off his bed (rather than just helping stabilise his wobbles) then that would be another red line.

Good luck at the vets tomorrow. Hopefully they will be able to offer some guidance. In my experience, some vets refused to be drawn, whereas others are are willing to talk it all through properly and some will say what they would do if it were them in the same position.

better a day to early than a day too late

Sounds a lot like my ex-racer at the end. I think you know it's time, and it is the kindest thing you can do for them. At the end, ours could hardly walk, couldn't get up on her bed by herself, had lost interest in food. Heartbreaking, but I am glad we did it when we did. I made her a last meal of sausages and gravy, and she went peacefully in my arms at the vets.

@acupofteaplease hows she doing today? How did the appointment with the vet go?

She's doing ok today thank you! The appointment with the vets went well, he was actually a lot more positive than we expected him to be. He said he doesnt think its the right time yet and that she might have weeks or months left, but he doesnt think she's at that point just yet. It feels like a bit of a relief for now, and we will just keep doing what we are and keeping an eye on things. I know the time will come in the not too distant future but hopefully we will have a bit more time. Thanks for asking

This is just my my personal viewpoint - Personally I am of the opinion that in the wild, death is brutal but quick. Once you start extending their life beyond what they would have in the wild… which clearly we do with modern veterinary medicine and indeed also by providing shelter and food… then along with that comes a responsibility to make a decision to PTS when appropriate. Everyone has a different point and, for me, personally, so long as they are passed the point they would have survived in the wild (I’m not talking about acute illness that they then recover from but palliative illness &/or old age) then I would rather a day too soon that a day too late. I’m not a fan of getting into a situation where you are effectively prolonging their death rather than prolonging their life. It is different for everyone and, of course, the reality is so much more painful than the theory. We took a good month ourselves after we first discussed should we PTS, to make the decision to PTS our beloved dog. It is hard and my thoughts are with you and your beloved dog.

Crossed with your update. That sounds a very positive appointment. Enjoy the the cuddles tonight and over the months to come.

I'm so glad your appointment was positive. As you say at least you can relax a little now and enjoy your time with her.