Young dog getting growled at by other dog

[Doggedydog]

Hi,
Hoping for some advice here
Our 9 month labradoodle is really friendly, loves everyone and wants to play with all dogs. We have worked a lot on his recall, making sure that he gives dogs a sniff and can now walk past them without immediately jumping to play.
We have a lovely doggy park near us and there are always friendly people with friendly dogs for ours to play with. So far, so good.
I have joined a dog walking group, but the last few times we have been the same dog, a 1 yr old Labrador has growled, barked at and chased my dog in a very unfriendly way. I haven’t seen him nipping mine but have heard mine yelping. Both times, the owner shouted at her dog but didn’t make a move to do anything so each time I’ve called mine away and we have walked on.
Two questions:

1. How much can these experiences make my dog reactive? Is two experiences enough to do any harm?
2. What to do going forward - I don’t want to avoid the dog walking group entirely but I’m intending to put control in place, ie walk my dog away from them, make sure he doesn’t see this other dog again (if possible), give him a day or two to calm down from the experience.

Not sure I’m overthinking this! But I read a puppy book that said even one negative experience can make a dog reactive and just wondering how true this is

Before your dog gets injured and you potentially have a dog scared for life stop going

Without wanting to offend you or your dog....generally poodle/doodle type dogs are a bit dense to boundary's. They are super friendly, bouncy and in your face (or other dogs faces) and it seems to take them quite a long time to work out that certain other dogs just don't want to play and they are too intense for the other dog.

One of my dogs is ten and deaf. Doodle/ poodle types bound along and get in his face and he chases them off and barks at them. He then moves on/ away but they often think this is the start of a game and return relentlessly. Whilst they are very sweet and friendly they often just do not get the boundary at all.

It may be that this lab is aggressive but I'd genuinely observe them and see who is approaching who and how it escalates.

Is your dog male?
If so, at 9mnths he will be maturing to puberty with high testosterone and other males may take offence at this.

My older dog growled at a dog the other day. It was a young “friendly” dog. That’s what the owner says. My dog gets pissed off being bounced all over. She growled. The other dog didn’t back off. It kept jumping in her face. I had to call to the owner to recall her dog.
Sounds like your dog is too excitable for this group at the moment.

My young male lab got growled at a lot when he was intact, mostly by already neutered males.

But as well as that thing, as pp said, at 9 months he was out of the harmless puppy stage , quite big, with raging hormones. He was an annoying bugger. We did a lot of training classes including the canine good citizen schemes, and he learned to calm down but also to read signals better. He’s an old sweetie now,

1. How much can these experiences make my dog reactive? Is two experiences enough to do any harm?

One bad experience is enough to do harm - it really doesn't take much. My own dog became reactive to Jack Russells after he was pinned down once at around 20 weeks of age. He's never gotten over it and has hated them on sight ever since.

2. What to do going forward - I don’t want to avoid the dog walking group entirely but I’m intending to put control in place, ie walk my dog away from them, make sure he doesn’t see this other dog again (if possible), give him a day or two to calm down from the experience.

You need to avoid the scenario and stop putting your dog in a situation where he's with another, out of control dog who is attacking him. Yes, the owner should have her dog under control but you can only control your own behaviour. Please keep your dog away from this group and this dog before he gets hurt.

You're right about attacks making dogs reactive. But you have to be careful to distinguish between an attack and that ordinary behaviour dogs exhibit when they're sussing out the pecking order. That behaviour can seem quite aggressive if you've never seen it before. It doesn't involve any nipping but it will involve very brief snarls, circling, moving forward, backing off, maybe a bark. This is all very normal pack animal behaviour for dogs that are off leash. When one (or both) dogs are on leash, they don't get the opportunity to express these natural behaviours, so they may become frustrated or frightened and they may exhibit more aggressive behaviour.

Without wanting to offend you or your dog....generally poodle/doodle type dogs are a bit dense to boundary's. They are super friendly, bouncy and in your face (or other dogs faces) and it seems to take them quite a long time to work out that certain other dogs just don't want to play and they are too intense for the other dog.

This is absolutely true and what we have been working on a lot, he really wants to play with every dog and at the start wouldn’t take no for an answer. We keep him on lead until he’s greeted a dog and I’ve asked the owner if he’s ok to play with them. You’re absolutely right that poodles / doodles don’t have boundaries!

Is your dog male?

Yes he is, and this dog has been neutered about 6 weeks ago, his owner said he’s been a “nightmare” the last few weeks, particularly to in tact dogs so I think there’s something there

@Wolfiefan

My older dog growled at a dog the other day. It was a young “friendly” dog. That’s what the owner says. My dog gets pissed off being bounced all over. She growled. The other dog didn’t back off. It kept jumping in her face. I had to call to the owner to recall her dog. Sounds like your dog is too excitable for this group at the moment.

“Sounds like your dog is too excitable for this group at the moment”

The odd thing is, he isn’t by any stretch the most excitable / bounciest / in your face. There are 2 goldies, about 4 labs, 2 collies, several doodle mixes, a few spaniels, 2 husky / Akita mixes, a weinemera etc etc. Some really high energy breeds.

A lot of them are around a year old too, so perhaps the combo of how boisterous several of them are / my dog being in tact is what wound up that dog

@WhiteXmas21 @fairylightsandwaxmelts

Both good advice / insight, thank you

@resetting2022 thank you, that’s a good point, I assumed it was aggressive beyond the normal part of play, but I have to say no one else was particularly bothered. Does that mean I’m OTT or that they’re too laid back about it…?

I only see the group to say hi too so certainly won’t be going on any long walks with them, and will be careful to keep him on lead / away from that other dog if we do encounter them

If it’s your dog being growled at then it’s the behaviour of your dog that is the issue. Not how excitable all the others are.
I would avoid these walks for now.

@Wolfiefan

If it’s your dog being growled at then it’s the behaviour of your dog that is the issue. Not how excitable all the others are. I would avoid these walks for now.

Bullshit.

If your dog is behaving the same with this dog as with all the others in the group, then it’s that dog that obviously has the issue.

I would try and keep your dog away, as others have said one or two bad experiences can cause reactivity in your dog.

If it’s your dog being growled at then it’s the behaviour of your dog that is the issue

That's really not always the case.

Some dogs are just badly reactive to certain other dogs - it's not necessarily something that specific dog has done.

For example, my dog is reactive to Jack Russells after being bitten and he will react to any JR he sees, regardless of what that dog is doing. It's not the JR's fault - it's because my dog was bitten and now associates all JR's with that fear.

@Wolfiefan

If it’s your dog being growled at then it’s the behaviour of your dog that is the issue. Not how excitable all the others are. I would avoid these walks for now.

Erm, that isn’t true at all.

One of my dogs is a mature bitch with very clear boundaries. There are a few dogs she will play with, and plenty of dogs she will exchange a sniff with or ignore. She is not aggressive, but she will sound as if she is about to knock seven bells out of young labs, goldies and similar who come charging up going 'HELLO!!!! It's MEEEE!!!' and get right in her face.

She tells them to fuck off, and might chase them a few yards. They usually stop, think twice, and either trot off unperturbed or sidle in sideways with an 'Uh, pleased to meet you I'm sure, I gather you are quite senior and important in these parts, might I offer you the time of day?'

She will then give them a polite sniff, and pretty much ignore them. She never bites. She never even seems to frighten them. They know she's sabre-rattling.

Is that what's going on in this scenario?

A young dog being bitten or pinned down by an older dog is something else, a something you want to avoid. I used to know a dog who hated all Yorkies after being bitten as a puppy.

Unless there is a major drip feed about how this dog goes for every other dog too then yes I would say the issue is with the OPs dog.
Haven’t seen him nipping mine? That suggests OP isn’t watching closely enough and intervening if necessary.

I think it is him being intact. The dog equivalent of small man syndrome on the part of the neutered aggressors.

As a fellow owner of an over friendly type which shares some breed traits with yours... You have my sympathy! I do think that the drive to be social and over-friendly can be as powerful as e.g. prey or chase drive, and equally problematic.

@Wolfiefan

Unless there is a major drip feed about how this dog goes for every other dog too then yes I would say the issue is with the OPs dog. Haven’t seen him nipping mine? That suggests OP isn’t watching closely enough and intervening if necessary.

I don’t think this is really fair, there are plenty of reasons why dogs can get aggressive to other dogs that haven’t done anything wrong. My parents dog, a really placid thing, got barked and snarled at walking past another dog a few weeks ago. Literally just for walking past.

I’ve been really reasonable in saying I am taking steps to address this in avoiding that other dog, making sure to continue the training of ours etc. But this is the first time this has ever happened and we have absolutely no issues with our dog whatsoever - he’s never been nippy / reactive / resource guards etc etc.

I find sometimes the Doghouse to be very supportive and sometimes it’s very judgemental when people are often posting in good faith asking for help / advice.

But this dog hasn’t got a problem with any others!

Sorry. Should have been a question mark!
The issue is that dogs see behaviour differently. One of mine was growled at today. For just walking past. But she walked past a stick the other dog had been carrying. He was resource guarding.
Some dogs don’t back off when told. Some bounce at faces etc. often people see friendly when other dogs find them rude and overbearing.

@Wolfiefan

But this dog hasn’t got a problem with any others!

How do you know that? It’s the first time I’ve met them, and the dog’s owner said he’s been a nightmare for the last few weeks with in tact dogs since being neutered.

How would I know what his past behaviour is?

@Wolfiefan

Sorry. Should have been a question mark! The issue is that dogs see behaviour differently. One of mine was growled at today. For just walking past. But she walked past a stick the other dog had been carrying. He was resource guarding. Some dogs don’t back off when told. Some bounce at faces etc. often people see friendly when other dogs find them rude and overbearing.

Right well by your own post from earlier “if it’s your dog being growled at then it’s the behaviour of your dog that is the issue” then by your own admission it’s your dog’s behaviour that was the issue then

I realise OP that I didn't even attempt to answer either of your actual questions. ....

1. I imagine that the puppy guides about reactivity and bad experiences are written from the worst case scenario perspective. Some dogs, like some people, are hyper-social and will be less attuned to fuck you vibes. I suspect these are the same dogs that will not crumble because of one bad experience. We have had multiple bad experiences and my dog does not give a monkeys and all dogs are still her potential best friend including the shepherd who is really reactive at puppy class. This in itself is not without its issues....

Second question..if there is an issue with a particular dog or dogs, i'd avoid the group for now and just do your own thing or meet up one on one with neutered or otherwise calm males, or non-fertile females.

@Doggedydog yes it was!! But to an observer it could have been a dog being aggressive because mine walked past him!! That’s not what happened.
Thankfully mine is a huge wuss and backed off at the very first sign of conflict!
If yours was the only one on this walk that this dog objected to then I would bet you were missing out on micro signals of behaviour.

It kind of doesn’t really matter whether the issue is your dog doing something or the other dog developing an issue due to being neutered - or both or something else entirely.

Because the only bit of the equation you can control is your dog.

So realistically all you can do is keep your dog away from that dog and keep an eye out for anything he might be doing that you can potentially work on.