A sad one - how do I get through to DH about DD

[hypeman]

A sad one so sorry folks but I'm struggling and some advice would be good as I don't want to make this harder than it is and I'm trying to be sensitive.

DH has a 14 year old collie X. He's had her since a puppy (before we met). He got her when he divorced his ex-wife and shes been with him ever since.

She's very much a one man dog and although she's become a family pet, she's always sort of been more his. She's a nice dog & has been good with DS since he arrived etc. I'm not really much of a dog person to be honest but I'm fond of her.

3 years ago her back legs started playing up and we discussed then she might be sadly on her way out. She saw the vet regularly and they confirmed arthritis but said she wasn't in pain etc and she's continued to live a happy (lazier) life. Just short frequent walks but she's happy.

She started developing lumps about a year ago and vet said nothing to worry about, normal for her age etc.

She now has faster growing lumps growing on the lumps and has lost fur around there. She's noticeably lost condition and is looking skinny and a bit raggy. She's in and out to the toilet all the time and pooing lots despite having the same food as always, same amounts etc. she's dropping her coat excessively, she's always shed a lot but I'm hoovering sometimes twice a day and still hair everywhere. However she's still e eating & drinking and going for short walks and seems happy enough. She's content and affectionate with us all still. Although occasionally she's been a bit growly which isn't like her, appears to be at nothing.

I feel that she probably has something wrong with her (lumps) and is in pain and that's why she's losing weight. I'm concerned about the growling with toddler DS. She's been brilliant and he's very gentle and leaves her be if she's on her bed but If she's in pain who knows - she could be unpredictable.

DH is being very difficult now and refusing to take her to the vets. Saying he can't afford it (we can, no financial issues, comfortable and she's insured). Saying there's no point they won't do anything for an old dog. He's been quite hurtful saying I just want her to be put down, this isn't true but if she's suffering then I think we should consider that option because it's unfair.

I understand he is struggling and doesn't want to let her go but I don't feel we're being fair to her to at-least get her checked . How do I gently push a vet trip without making this situation worse for anyone?

Long ago when we were thinking about TTC DS we agreed whilst we liked the dog we wouldn't get another. I'm not a fan of dogs and small children and ultimately the last few years it's me doing all the work with DDog as I had maternity and went back part time and I wouldn't chose that as I'm not overly bothered with dogs. I'm pregnant with DC2 now and I definitely wouldn't consider another dog. I think this is playing a part.

I'm stuck and I don't want either the Dog or DH to suffer but I'm stuck in the middle! DS will also be devastated as he adores her but I don't want him to watch the dog suffer either.

Help please?! How to I move forward gently?

He’s doesn’t love dogs

I couldn’t be with someone knowingly subjecting their pet to unnecessary suffering…. You don’t need to destroy your marriage you need to tell him to stop being so cruel. I honestly can’t imagine seeing an animal suffer and being loving to someone letting it happen?! Hopefully you won’t let him let your dc suffer because he can’t be arsed to take them to a&e

He needs to wise up and put his dog first.

He really can't knowingly inflict a miserable and painful death to a creature he claims to love. Refusing medical treatment is neglect, it's abuse.

I've had to make the decision for both my dogs ( the last one on Friday 😟 )

Two things my vets said which really helped...

Dogs are really good at rallying. They may still eat, and be enthusiastic, but can still be very very ill.

Better a day too early than a day too late.

Both times I just knew that their final day had come. My first dog- a light just went out.
With my second dog, it was the same, but he got so thin, so lumpy, and was struggling with his back legs. I absolutely didn't want the trauma ( to them) of them collapsing, and not being able to get up.

I wanted them to have a more peaceful death than that.

It is really hard though

It's very unfair of him to decide unilaterally that he makes all the decisions while you do 90% of the work. Does he Hoover twice a day? Does he have to watch the dog and toddler like a hawk?

I may be biased because an ill dog who had never been an issue before bit a small child in my family very badly in the face. Lovely dog, was in pain. Dogs in pain do things that are terrible sometimes.

Tell your dh that noone is going to make him PTS. Not even if its clearly time. They wont force you. Tell him that you need to check if this is something she could be treated for. Painkillers so shes not suffering.
Its so so hard to make the decision to PTS and it has to be his decision. He is likely just terrified to lose her and burying his head in the sand. Let him know that you arent telling him to do that, but its important to at least know whats going on so you can give her a more comfortable retirement

Oh i see they said didnt need painkillers. Id actually want to find out if that was still the case since she has deteriorated more.
Trying metacam or pardale v for the arthritis would be what i would ask for

We have a 12 year old lab with arthritis and she is on a monthly injection of a relatively new medication called Librella. Prior to that she was on Loxicom and paracetamol. They stopped working so well so a new vet added in Gabapentin which sent her a bit loopy - can cause dementia symptoms in dogs. So back to vet and they suggested this injection. She was the first dog they had used it on - it was about a year ago.

It was miraculous. She was like a different dog.

I’m shocked a vet wouldn’t prescribe pain killing meds for a dog with arthritis. I’d be going to a different vet.

If the dog is in a lot of pain it will be depressed and that could be why it’s losing weight.

Please try to persuade your DH to take her to the vet.

Honestly, I'd take her to the vet myself. One day too early is better than one day too late. This doesn't mean I think you should have her PTS, but I think a vet needs to assess the dog because it's never OK to let your dog suffer.

It was 3 years ago that the vet said the dog wasn't in pain @PollyRoulllson

I’d take her to the vet myself again and I understand your husband’s pain at the thought of losing his beloved dog, but he’s being a selfish arsehole. I would never want my animals to suffer.

By coincidence I read this article only yesterday along similar lines
www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/jan/28/too-many-pets-kept-alive-when-its-not-the-kindest-option-say-vets

@Clymene

It was 3 years ago that the vet said the dog wasn't in pain *@PollyRoulllson*

Thanks teach me to skim read!

All dogs need regular checkups especially old ones so just get DH to book a checkup appointment - take it from there ....

I also agree with branleuse approach

Op, I wouldn’t be surprised if what you are seeing is the last days of your dog. What you describe sounds pretty much like what my dog went through in his last few days. Your DH may find having that conversation with the vet difficult, some people do not have the courage to take the decision to put a loved dog down. Obviously, you cannot take the decision for him, but he is right that vets sometimes are not able to do much for the dog but most will suggest expensive tests or options to keep the dog going because they think that’s what the owner want. What I have found useful to get the vets out of this cycle is to ask the question “if this was your dog, honestly, what would you do?”

I hope you manage to find a way to help the dog and your DH but in the meantime, keep the toddler well away from the dog. Arthritis is very painful, I have only been bitten once by a dog and it was by my beloved and very well behaved 16 year old dog, I didn’t do anything to her, I was just stroking her forehead when she suddenly moved a bit, screamed as if she had been kicked and went for my hand bad enough to draw a bit of blood. So don’t trust your toddler to stay away, just keep them in separate rooms.

I’m sorry OP something here doesn’t quite add up, is it possible when your dog was last checked that your or your husband misunderstood something? And when was your dog last checked? I have an older arthritic dog, my previous dog who lived to 13 also had it. It’s progressive so increasingly painful, it’s also related to inflammation. Both times round, vets have given advice on arthritis management and relief inc weight ranges as being overweight causes issues. In the early days of being diagnosed – even 13 years ago when some older vets didn’t really believe in pain meds for animals – prescriptions for anti-inflammatories or at the very least, low-dose of otc Paracetamol for a bad bout were routine. They also recommended appropriate bedding to make them more comfortable when sleeping, dietary changes to include fish oil and other nutrients useful in combating arthritis. Possible treatments that help like hydro and acupuncture.

With my current dog, she was on low-dose anti-inflammatory meds, with regular check-ups and blood tests to check for adverse side effects. As the arthritis progressed with more stiffness/discomfort, she had her usual meds Carprodyl plus the option of low-dose paracetamol for really bad days. She also had hydrotherapy. The Carprodyl started to cause stomach issues, so that was discontinued, she now has monthly Librela injections instead, plus very low dose Paracetamol, she’s been on that for nearly a year, her ease of movement’s actually better than it’s been for years. My vet’s made it clear there are options to help her cope if Librela ceases to be entirely effective.

She’s also had two lumps removed, both biopsied for signs of malignancies, can also have a needle test pre-removal. She has her teeth cleaned every two years, hers are very good, my previous dog had them cleaned once a year, as dental problems can cause terrible pain and other issues for dogs as they age. This could be adding to your dog's discomfort.

I’m sure this wasn’t intended but if none of this is happening/has happened for your dog then they’re essentially being neglected, either you have a terrible vet or your husband’s idea of caring for a dog is not ideal for the dog’s welfare. Vets now are trained in pain management/relief, so I can’t help thinking your husband’s the likely problem here. I have lots of friends/dog-walking companions etc with older dogs, I’ve frankly never heard of a vet who didn’t put in place pain management etc for arthritis, at the very least. OR maybe the vet diagnosed early-stage arthritis, but your dog has not had their yearly wellness checks since, usually alongside their yearly vaccines, this is when mine were monitored for changes in their arthritis and had their medication prescribed/ modified as time passed.

Obviously, it bothers me that your dog may have suffered unnecessarily for years but there’s nothing that can be done about that, but you really need to have your dog checked over now as a matter of urgency, meds for the arthritis, needle biopsies for the lumps, teeth checked etc Otherwise this is essentially a case of animal cruelty through neglect.

We have an old girl who is also 14 and who has suffered with OA for the last 4 years. She has begun developing lumps generally as old dogs do but has some quite large nasty ones appearing. She takes 3 different meds for OA and has just begun taking Gabepentin as she is having small seizures and vet thinks brain tumour. We probably have a few months left. I asked the vet for indications of when it is time. My girl isn't losing condition yet.

1. Are they eating and drinking normally
2. Are they able to keep themselves clean
3. Are they having more good days than bad
4. The biggie is around pain. Are they in pain and can it be managed

We'll let our lady go a little longer but as long-standing dog owners we won't hesitate to have her PtS if she's suffering. We lost our 15 year old beagle a few months ago and knew straight away when the time had come.

I think what I'm trying to say is that when you live an animal you will take that decision when the time comes xxx

He's scared, which is understandable. But he also needs to understand that he is her human and he needs to look after her, even when it's hard. If it were me, I would be telling him he needs to make a decision for the dog, not himself. Helping a dog pass peacefully is the hardest bit of being a dog owner, but he owes it to her. It's hard to let go, but the alternative is letting the decline play out. And then the hindsight of realising you did the wrong thing is hard to forgive yourself for.

I agree with you Treecreature but what also really worries me is that this dog may have conditions that are either fully treatable or manageable with the right meds. My aged dog has had a lot of similar issues all of which have been successfully treated, she sees a vet for regular check-ups, and when anything crops up. Her last large lump, which was painful and needed removal followed by extensive antibiotics, was over a year ago. Her arthritis is under control with Librela, her dental issues have been sorted. She had some stomach issues like the OP's too, and these were also fully addressed. She's now bouncing around despite being quite elderly. The OP's dog may be reaching the end but may also just be in need of appropriate medical care, or it could be they're reaching the end prematurely because they haven't had/aren't getting the care they need as/when they need it.

Can you ring or video call your vet so you at least have an idea of what the situation is from their side perhaps?

@Walserwasstrange hit the nail on the head, you're 100% right.

If she has lumps which are deteriorating it’s possible they could be becoming ulcerated on the inside. I had this with a dog some years ago.she was already on anti inflammatories for arthritis but she had a lump which was removed when she was 12, but over the next year it recurred and the vet warned me it could become ulcerated, at which point decisions would need to be made.

I knew it was time the day I took her for her vet’s appointment and she didn’t want to walk there, (it was a 5 minute walk from my house, and she loved her walks there.) I very nearly just took her home and made the appointment, but decided to take her in to see the vet who confirmed what I already knew, so I made the appointment for the next day.

Tomorrow I have to take my almost 14 year old dog to the vet, he’s well enough in himself but is stiff, plus is starting to get some separation anxiety which I think is because his hearing is going, because as soon as I appear in the room he stops barking.

I am fairly sure it’s not time yet, but I also know that once they start to get old it can be a rapid process. It absolutely isn’t going to be an easy decision for me to make when the time comes, not least because he’s my retired guide dog so we have been through an awful lot together.

But I won’t watch him suffer, and so when the time comes I will do what I have to do.

It is our responsibility as dog owners to do right by our animals, and part of that is allowing them to go when the time comes. Nobody wants to make that decision, but when you’re keeping a dog who is clearly suffering the question you need to ask yourself is who you’re keeping it for. Because it’s certainly not for the animal’s benefit.

Absolutely cannot leave the dog in pain. She’s growly and if she has arthritis she needs medication. He’s being cruel and selfish. At least get the poor thing some pain relief 💔 heartbreaking.
Tell him the neighbours are concerned, you may get reported… whatever.

@Walserwasstrange are you in the U.K? I’ve not heard of librela, my Lab has Galliprant he has tummy issues, but he’s been ok on it.

So sad

I can totally understand him not wanting to as he probably knows what the vet will say but it’s unfair to the poor dog at the same time. Tough situation for you.

We had the same with a family dog and she had lots lumps, arthritis etc.

Although it was devastating putting her to sleep, my mum did say we probably left it too long as we loved her so much.

Hope he’s sees sense

He might have taken his lovely collie girl to the vet without you knowing about it.He probably sensed all those years you are not really a dog person(deep down).But now that it comes to the end of the dogs life,you seem to have a very eager interest.....Dogs in old age get lumps and bumps,arthritis and the coat will look not quite as shiny.Of course here on MN ad per usual,its the BH.

Many insurances have video vet consltations, you should see if they are included and have a chat with them about arthritis and pain relief. You need to reframe the conversation with your partner and start talking about pain relief not PTS. Maybe do some research into suppliments like green lipped mussel and turmeric/ golden paste and things like hydrotherapy, I doubt it will be strong enough to offer significant improvement to your dog, but may help you start a new conversation about pain management.

Almost all owners know and come to the decision themselves when it is the right time, they don't need family pushing them to make the decision 1) they will then dig their heels in, and it wont be in the animals best interests 2) if they do it, they will then regret it and you get the blame. Its difficult to say without knowing the dog, but if it really is that bad you might find if you release the pressure he comes to that decision on his own.

[quote Suzi888]@Walserwasstrange are you in the U.K? I’ve not heard of librela, my Lab has Galliprant he has tummy issues, but he’s been ok on it.[/quote]
My lab is on Librela too. In uk. As EvaLution says it’s relatively new and there were some supply issues at one point. It’s been great for our dog.