Please help

[wishfuldogowner]

Hi sorry this may be a long one. We have a 12m lab, he's not our first dog and we did lots of research before choosing him. We started straining at 10 weeks and enrolled in puppy classes at 4m. We were seeing progress but it all went to pot around 5/6m. It doesn't help he's a big dog. (Around 45kg now) the issues are -

Jumping up (mainly at others) - we ignore this which works mostly but doesn't help with other people
Biting - never improved now uses it to show annoyance ie on way home from walk or if taking away something he shouldn't have
Pulling on lead - this started about 5m we stop and make him walk back. He does it then immediately starts to pull again. I tried the change direction but he pulled then too. We do heel work during walk he can doit but on his terms he will move away if had enough. Treats he will accept then move immediately after.
Recall- he's great unless he sees another dog. He is fine with other dogs but other owners don't like him as he's so big and boisterous
Jumping up when we are eating/busy- we try to get him to sit and reward but he just comes back. Treats he gobbles down, chews/toys he ignores.
Biting lead- if we use it in house ie if visitors are there or at other peoples houses he will go mad and bite/pull lead. Also does it on way home from walk we try to ignore it/not engage

We just don't know what to do. The puppy classes were reward based and worked to a point. When we tried to reduce treats he stopped responding as well and now he will follow commands for treats if he wants to he's not that bothered. We got a second trainer at 10m she told us to shake a bottle at him or spray water in his face. We tried the bottle, he became aggressive so we stopped and didn't go back. We have had two sessions with a new trainer who teaches through play he's enjoying it but if I try to add commands in sit, wait etc he sometimes does it or just ignores me. It feels like a constant battle of wills. I find it frustrating because I spend hours everyday walking/training/ playing with him for little or no reward. He's not affectionate or cuddly and doesn't give back.

I'm sorry it's so long just wondering if anyone has any ideas that worked for them or people who had similar experience and it got better or is anyone struggling like me? Thanks

@Simonjt thank you for your reply that's really helpful

@TurkeyRoastvBubbleandSqueek thank you for your reply. He's from a family of pets. We did a four week pup class and expected that to be it then we went to a trainer as we were struggling but didn't agree with the methods. The new person is doing games to encourage obedience. He loves to retrieve!! Maybe I just need to make sure it stays fun for now and then try to throw some commands in later. He's not territorial about food at all.

@Chuechebache

Ps.how do you weigh your 42kg dog?

😂😂 he got weighed at vets other month and they wrote it down. I could not lift him on our scales 😂

@colderandeatsmincepiesalot aww she's gorgeous

@Chuechebache

I know people who had 5 different trainers and still have the same problems.some people never follow training advice,once they are left to their own device.poor advice here indeed!

It's not due to lack patience. The first was a puppy class for 4 weeks with dog trust. The second trainer we only did one session and weren't happy so we found another.

@wishfuldogowner

This is my boy 🐶

He’s lovely and doesn’t look fat. He does have a bit of a GSD look about him though

Some advise you have been given on here is not great. The problem is if you keep trying different bits of training and advise its just all too confusing and will never work. Your dog is young and pushing boundaries and is unfortunately getting rewarded for his bad behaviour l, not by you by his environment. A dog who managed to steal food by jumping up even if he's told off will still jump up on the off change he gets another tasty reward, for example. Same applies for him running at other dogs, he gets fun fun fun and won't care much about being ignore or told off.
I could give you advise for each scenario you described but I won't because you have had loads and will feel totally conflicted and confused and it will make things worse. Plus I don't follow completely positive training methods and that might not be for you. While I totally think prong collers and the likes are awful and extreme, I do think dogs need clear consequences that they can understand. Ignoring behaviour alone is not going to work in my opinion.
What I will say is that you need professional help with a trainer who you will stick with and who has a good reputation. I feel from your post you may be actually reinforcing the bad behaviour. Not on purpose but by slight actions and inaction. For example when you reward on recall it needs to be quick because if you are a second too late you have missed the q and confused the dog. These are the things the trainer will tell you and practice not shaking bottles.
The main thing is consistency. When I got my golden retriever he had never been walked and was just over 1. He pulled and had never been let off and would try steal food. He had just bern left to do as he pleased basically. It has taken a year to fully train him to walk to heal and not pull. He can now walk everywhere without lead. It takes time to undo bad training or lack of training especially in adolescent dogs. In order to do this we had to do it every single minute of every day and every time we walked even when it was frustrating or we were in a rush we could not give in. Its not really training its a lifestyle change. You have to do the same behaviour forever.

@wishfuldogowner when did it get better? Around the time he tore his knee unfortunately as he then developed arthritis (he had a TPLO) but he was also a bit erm chunky shall we say. That would be the one thing I wish I had done is cut back on the treats. The vet advised us that he was an O.K weight, but I’m a bit unsure of this, it’s really hard to get weight off them.

Once he hurt his leg, he had to have ten weeks of zero exercise and then very, very little for months afterward. It was then impossible to get him trim again.
He comes from a show line (allegedly) and they are bigger - so they say and he is also neutered which some say makes them plumper.

I paid a behaviourist and he had three trainers over a period of around three years. Made not a scrap of difference, he would behave for them
but not me. Maybe we weren’t strict enough…

Your lab doesn’t sound nasty, but definitely pushing boundaries.

I will say, my Lab is the best dog I’ve ever had and we’ve had a few dogs and I’ve grown up with them. He’s loving in his own way- he will lean in for pats, whip you to death with his tail when he’s happy.

Keep at it, it’s hard especially when most labs seem so chill and you end up with a real life ‘Marley 😆 and me’ type crazy Lab! It’ll be worth it in the end.

We have had two sessions with a new trainer who teaches through play he's enjoying it but if I try to add commands in sit, wait etc he sometimes does it or just ignores me. It feels like a constant battle of wills. I find it frustrating because I spend hours everyday walking/training/ playing with him for little or no reward. He's not affectionate or cuddly and doesn't give back.

Essentially he’s a teenage arsehole and it can feel frustrating, unrewarding and an uphill battle to get through adolescence with a dog like that, but if you stick with it he will come out the other side of it eventually.

Many, many years ago I had a cross of two working breeds who turned out to be an awesome dog as an adult, but had me in tears of frustration when she was adolescent. I put so much time into her, including what amounted to hours of walking up and down on the lead between two buildings with a car parked in front, as she was able to walk to heel in the house and garden, but totally lost focus out of those environments and I needed to up the distraction criteria really slowly. It also felt like she loved everyone but me while she was a teenager, but she came through it and was the most loyal, loving dog as an adult. She went from buggering off across a flood plain with another dog, where neither myself or the other owner were able to get to them and dancing about together in the water for over an hour as a teenager, to completely ignoring other dogs and choosing to walk alongside me as an adult.

In my experience the ‘Sexier than a Squirrel’ manic-play type training method doesn’t work well as well for some dogs that are already hyper, unless you are a very experienced trainer and able to channel that energy, but stick with the new trainer if you are happy with their methods. Just make sure you stay in regular contact and keep them up to date when you have issues like him ignoring cues intermittently, so they can advise you.

I know it’s hard, but try not to fall into the trap of it being a battle of wills, I can remember feeling similarly at times, but really dogs don’t have that sort of ‘must overcome the control of my master’ type thinking, they just want to do what is most rewarding in that moment, which is why it’s so important to find the right motivators and use and time them appropriately. It can feel like it’s taking forever and is two steps forwards three steps back, but when the training starts to come together you will find it rewarding and a bonding experience with him and that’s how you eventually reach the point I got to with my girl. It’s a bit like you love your sometimes obnoxious teen dc, but know you have to go through the teenage years for them to grow into a lovely adult. Adolescence is always about exploring freedoms and developing independence and dogs are no different. I find it helps to try to think of it as a time of channelling their energy and shaping them into the sort of adult they need to/will be, rather than fighting against it.