How best to research breeders these days? Also, poodle, irish setter or spaniel?

[HansChristianAnderfuck]

Haven’t owned a dog in 10 years since my cocker died. Have owned 3 dogs in my lifetime and need tips on how best to research breeders and how long is it on wait lists these days?

Will be ready for another dog in 18 months or so, once DD leaves for university and empty nest syndrome kicks in.

Also can’t decide between standard poodle, cocker spaniel or Irish setter. Any experiences welcome. I’ve had a cocker and miniature poodle before.

Me and DH at home, mostly WFH but will need to use dog daycare or a sitter once a week. DD back for holidays by then. We have 2 middle aged, confident and friendly pedigree cats who go out. Their breeder had dogs so they were socialised. We have an enclosed medium sized garden and direct access to a large forest just over the road. Plus farmland also within a short stroll. We enjoy walking. Both fit and well.

Thanks for any guidance.

I would love a setter but I couldn’t manage the exercise needed!
Consider grooming needs as well as walking. Whichever you pick go via the breed club when looking for a breeder.

We've got a working cocker spaniel, he's not KC registered as it was an accidental mating but both parents were. He's from several generations of pet dogs as opposed to working but jesus wept, his prey drive is still strong. He hadn't had his tail docked or dew claws removed and I can't tell you how much money we've spent at the vets over the years. He is a hedge surfing, pond diving, mud loving monster....... and possibly the most adorable dog I've ever had. He's very much "my dog", is attached to me with velcro and chews his tail if I ever dare to leave him. Luckily we run our own business and both our dogs come to work with us.

Our other dog is a sprocker and came from a family in the village as again it was an accidental mating. She's gorgeous - gentle, kind, a bit scatty and very nervy. No issues with her tail or dew claws though thank god and you can walk her without a lead as she's just happy right by your side. Biddable isn't the word.

I personally wouldn't get too caught up in the whole breeder issue...... both of ours came from kind loving homes, weren't bred for money and I've no regrets other than the issues I've mentioned above with our cocker. I hate seeing puppies raised in outdoor kennels purely for their bloodlines.

@Wolfiefan

I would love a setter but I couldn’t manage the exercise needed! Consider grooming needs as well as walking. Whichever you pick go via the breed club when looking for a breeder.

Thanks. Yes happy to do a daily brush but to leave the rest to a groomer. Happy to fund regular haircuts.

Happy to do training and exercising. Will have plenty of time on hands.

I don't think I've ever met a calm setter they are stunning dogs but the energy levels are something else entirely, lol.

I love both cockers and poodles so I'm not going to be much help there - poodle coats are prone to matting which is worth considering if you live near a forest as they'll get covered in mud/thorns in winter. Although poodles were bred to work, they don't really work in this country anymore so I suspect the prey drive isn't quite as high as it is in cockers if that's worth considering.

Breeder wise, I would go via the breed club for the breed and also look on the KC website and ChampDogs for breeders. In terms of waiting times, it really depends on the breed, how popular it is and also a lot of it will come down to luck.

We waited nine months from finding a breeder to bringing our beagle home, but this was pre-COVID so I'm not sure how different it would be now.

We also have a sprocker, from serious working cocker and field trial champion lines and he's a brilliant dog. With the right training (whistle) he doesn't charge off through hedges unless he's asked to and I have the most wonderful bond with him. He's just so much fun, so clever too, he's learnt whole sentences and just lives to please so does things without me even needing to explicitly ask him.

His prey drive is easily managed with the whistle (will come off anything, including deer and sheep on the whistle) and now he's nearly two he settles beautifully after 2 half hour/ 1 hour and one half hour walk. At the moment hes still on reduced exercise following an accident which was very much not his fault (speeding maniac coming through the village ran him over while we were on a walk) and he's been a star through it all.

I know you'll get people coming along telling you working line spanner's are best avoided so I just wanted to get in first and say that with a bit of mental stimulation (whistle or scatter feeding or lots of sniffy time on walks) they are absolutely fantastic dogs and definitely don't need barrels of exercise.

We also have a beagle and she's lovely but a whole bundle of hard work when it comes to arooing at everyone and everything and complete inability to comprehend recall at the slightest whiff of a rabbit passing that way at some point in the last week so I'd recommend avoiding hound breeds

Have you thought about an Irish doodle? A cross between a red setter and a poodle. Wonderful temperament. We looked on some Facebook groups for IDs before finding a breeder through recommendations on there.

Thanks, your dogs sound lovely. I was looking on Champdogs, Gun Dogs, Kennel Club and will cross reference against the breed specific websites. I was amazed to see quite a lot ready for homing, I thought by now there would be wait lists only. Is that something to beware of?

Was going to get one of those coats with legs covered for when the forest is very muddy. Then only need to wipe paws and ears. Every setter I meet (albeit all adults) seems to be 100 x calmer than my dear cocker who was bonkers until old age. Our old poodle was a calm and intelligent fella but if I went for a poodle would definitely be a standard size this time.

Requirements are temperament, pet friendly, reasonably biddable, like cuddles, like a long walk. That’s about it really. Happy to join dog training etc but don’t want a dog that’s very challenging to train. On the other hand am used to dogs that need some training and don’t always come back when you call them.

Should tails be docked these days? I see the gun dogs do that and it makes sense.

@ShadowsInTheDarkness

We also have a sprocker, from serious working cocker and field trial champion lines and he's a brilliant dog. With the right training (whistle) he doesn't charge off through hedges unless he's asked to and I have the most wonderful bond with him. He's just so much fun, so clever too, he's learnt whole sentences and just lives to please so does things without me even needing to explicitly ask him.

His prey drive is easily managed with the whistle (will come off anything, including deer and sheep on the whistle) and now he's nearly two he settles beautifully after 2 half hour/ 1 hour and one half hour walk. At the moment hes still on reduced exercise following an accident which was very much not his fault (speeding maniac coming through the village ran him over while we were on a walk) and he's been a star through it all.

I know you'll get people coming along telling you working line spanner's are best avoided so I just wanted to get in first and say that with a bit of mental stimulation (whistle or scatter feeding or lots of sniffy time on walks) they are absolutely fantastic dogs and definitely don't need barrels of exercise.

We also have a beagle and she's lovely but a whole bundle of hard work when it comes to arooing at everyone and everything and complete inability to comprehend recall at the slightest whiff of a rabbit passing that way at some point in the last week so I'd recommend avoiding hound breeds

Thanks yes not keen on lots of barking. I supposed I’m used to scatty cocker although she was hard work she was just a lovely character. She used to howl though especially when left outside a shop (can’t do that these days…). Our poodle was more reserved but also a sweetheart and he was much more intelligent. Happy to have swimmers. The cats moult so don’t mind fur.

Our chap is docked but only the very tip and we have had no tail issues. I can see how easily it could go wrong with an undocked tail and brambles and hedges etc so I'm glad he was done.

Just another point - spaniel aid have had a lot of gorgeous young dogs come through their doors after lock down as so many puppies were surrendered when furloughed people went back to work. They are listing more all the time and whilst some have some issues there have been quite a few who have had no issuers at all and would be ideal for your circumstances so definitely worth considering.

I wouldn’t call a setter biddable!!
Avoid shopping online. Decent breeders often don’t advertise at all. Puppies available NOW? Why?? Suggests they breed a lot and to meet demand. Rather than selectively. Contact the breed club. Check out what health tests need doing. Eyes? Hips?
KC just means pedigree. Not good breeder.

If we ever have another cocker (ours is 8.5 and still mad as a hatter), I'd get one with a docked tail. We've had a nightmare with infections/bleeding from it, and it's now got no hair on the tip which looks decidedly odd. He never learns though and I sit most evenings with a pair of tweezers pulling thorns out of it!

@HansChristianAnderfuck

Should tails be docked these days? I see the gun dogs do that and it makes sense.

Tail docking is illegal now unless the dogs are specifically being bred to work - otherwise it's considered mutilation. They can be docked as adults for medical reasons (eg. injury) though.

I walk numerous cocker spaniels - one is docked (she's a failed gun dog so was bred to work but now lives as a pet) and all the others have full tails. The full-tailed dogs have never once had tail injuries and, in typical spaniel style, they all loon around like idiots through the undergrowth on a daily basis

So, unless your breeder is dodgy or you lie and say you'll work them when you won't, your puppy shouldn't arrive docked.

Also echoing the mention of spaniel aid, my cousin fosters lots of dogs to assess them..... he's got 4 spaniels of his own and is always sending photos of new arrivals. He knows I'm weak and will get another when I can crack DH.

Also Spaniel Assist - they've had a heartbreaking amount of young dogs recently that were lockdown puppies.

We have a cocker and he’s clever and loving. I love red setters but the size and needs are high compared to my boy. He’s working, whistle trained and currently cuddled up under my legs on the sofa. His tail is docked but not fully and he has one dew claw that “grew back” - I think the vet missed one. It needs dealing with but we’re taking to the vet about that. He’s caught it a couple of times. Having had a cocker I’m definitely a spaniel person.

@Wolfiefan

I wouldn’t call a setter biddable!! Avoid shopping online. Decent breeders often don’t advertise at all. Puppies available NOW? Why?? Suggests they breed a lot and to meet demand. Rather than selectively. Contact the breed club. Check out what health tests need doing. Eyes? Hips? KC just means pedigree. Not good breeder.

If they don’t advertise then how do you find them? By biddable I don’t mean easy and do what is asked all the time (I’m used to mad nose led cocker) but I see plenty of calm setters who are lovely family dogs and seem to be well managed. I could manage a strung out dog, I’m good with dogs (I holiday sit my next door neighbours wolf dog and collie, my friend has a weinmaraner who I help walk) but don’t want a lot of hard work in my middle age.

I would think about the size difference than anything else given you sound like you could manage any of the dogs. I used to walk a setter and it's a big difference to a cocker particularly in terms of car space and space in the lounge!

I do think spaniels are harder work than most people realise but given you've had one, you know what you're getting into. I found the setter I walked easier - maybe he was just better trained than my dog - but he was definitely calmer!

I've heard a lot of good things about standard poodles. Clever, biddable, low shedding coat and not much trouble if you exercise them properly.

Definitely avoid anyone who says they have puppies available, ready to go ‘now’. Decent breeders have long waiting lists and vet potential owners really thoroughly, they don’t have litters of puppies they have bred just in case they can find them all homes.

I would look at the UK breed clubs. There is often a puppy coordinator or if not, the secretary can usually point you in the right direction. Breed club and breed fan FB forums are a good place to frequent as well, as you can glean information about different breeders and lines on there and cross reference those with the Kennel Club website for things like breeding coefficiencies and number of litters etc.

Nothing wrong with contacting some breeders to find out more about the breed, their dogs etc and be honest that you are still trying to make a final decision on whether or not it’s the right breed for you. A good breeder will be keen to ensure their pups go to the right homes and will want to talk about the breed and their own dogs. I have been in contact with the breeder of our next pup for over 18 months now and was honest at the start that we weren’t ready for a pup yet, but wanted to find out more about the breed and if they felt we were the right family to have one. We were very kindly added to their FB group with families that already have their pups, so can see they stay in touch and offer support for life, as well as learning more about living with that particular breed, any health issues etc.

Pandemic allowing, you could go along to Discover Dogs either at Crufts in Birmingham in March or London later in the year. That way you can meet breeders and pet owners of each breed and have a chat with them. Many breeds have regular meet ups and group walks as well, where you can go along and meet lots of owners and dogs together (although again, the pandemic has made this more difficult recently).

I have had all rescues, bar one, over the last 30 years and like you was anxious to get it right, hence starting my research early and being super cautious. My one and only pedigree up until now came via the breed club’s puppy list and we had to wait 18 months for a breeder to contact us that time, as that was the way that club ran their list. Last time around we didn’t have the internet to help us. This time I have been able to be more proactive in speaking to people already involved in the breed to prepare myself and learn as much as I can, as it is going to be a very different breed to the ones I am used to.

We found our puppy through champdogs. It's not always a red flag for a breeder to have puppies available if you do your due diligence. We were waiting on a list through a friend of a friend but the litter ended up being smaller than anticipated so missed out there. Current pup was one of nine, with an uneven male/female split so not unreasonable imo that the breeder ended up with three that didn't have homes lined up. We spoke to them when pups were 2 weeks old and visited at 4 weeks.

We have a fabulous show cocker. I was struggling to find a good breeder and asked our local grommet if she groomed any and if so, if she could ask who the breeder was. She did and it worked out brilliantly.

Great thanks this is very helpful. I’ll start with the breed club secretaries and Facebook pages. Not against a rescue either.

My family have setters and my aunt has poodles
The setters are lovely but want to work, if you just took them on long walks without lots of extra stimulation they get bored.
My aunt has standard poodles and they are wonderful. Clever but not too clever, up for lots of exercise but not nightmares without it.

@HansChristianAnderfuck you find them by going through the breed club. People who advertise online are often simply in it for the cash. Those who breed responsibly really don’t need to advertise as they may have waiting lists. I’m already on a list for a puppy that probably won’t be born until next year. The “list” is full and the breeder won’t advertise.

Setter setter setter, all the way; you'll never find a nicer dog. They are absolutely biddable - they are just longing to please you, far more so than most cockers ime.
Athletic, healthy, gentle, glorious-looking, kind and really don't need much grooming.

Can I ask…are the crazy cocker spaniels you’re talking about all working cockers? In your experiences is there a big difference between a working and show cocker? Thanks