Crates

[whatisthisinhere]

My old dog has never been crate trained. I'm getting a new puppy in a cou0,e of months and hear a lot about crate training. It seems I can't read anything about training puppies that doesn't mention crates. Not even as an option but as a must do.
Is it absolutely necessary?I've always just kept puppies near me at night, or slept near them so I can wake if they need to toilet during the night, or are just missing their litter mates. I then train them gradually to be left in the house until they are confident when left. I've never had much destruction, and never had anything harmful happen, and I've owned four dogs as an adult that I have been responsible for.
I really don't want to do it, but am I missing a trick?

We've never crated our dogs. It would have made things easier with our current youngest, as she has been quite destructive (not massively so, though) but not enough to convince either of us that crating is necessary.

People sometimes say it makes it easier for the dog if at the vets, but ours have always been fine there. They're also used to being confined in the back of the car.

I can see where it might be handy, but unless you want to keep apart dogs you suspect might fight, or don't want to puppy-proof the whole of a vast open-plan home, I don't think it's essential.

I think full on crate training is plain wrong.

We never crate-trained our dog and he's four now - we've had him since he was a puppy and he was absolutely fine. He's also been crated at the vets and it's never been a problem.

@FindingMeno

I think full on crate training is plain wrong.

Why?

Because dogs need interaction not sitting in a crate.
If they're going to have a toilet accident to make it that they either have to mess in their own space or suffer is cruel.
Because some people seem to think they can go out and leave a dog for hours because the poor dog is in a cage.

Our dog sleeps in her crate at night, if fact actually runs to it and settles down if we mention bedtime, and whines if we don't shut it and cover it. She sleeps till after 8am easily. She barely goes in it during the day, and we have never felt the need when we go out as its easy enough to confine her to a safe part of the house. However I was very grateful she was content in her crate when she needed an operation and had to be kept from moving and jumping. The crate was a godsend and I was amazed she was perfectly okay in there for over a week apart from toileting, even though she's a lively dog.

We have one for our 16 week old but only for two naps a day after good exercise (it's quiet there and he settles much more deeply). We're both home all day bar school runs when we're both out or other occasional times so he's never in it for more than about 1.5 hours. We had a brief period of him sleeping in it at night but recently he had a tummy upset and it was horrendous! Nowhere for him to escape from it so it took two of us 3 solid hours to get him and the crate/area/toys/bedding clean. Now he sleeps at night in his bed in the utility and the crate is just for naps or when we need to keep him safely away from workmen or whatnot.
If they're used sparingly I think they're great, but you hear horror stories of people leaving them in there for hours upon hours while they're at work. Not sure why they don't use doggy daycare 😢

Crate training is absolutely not necessary. I never did it with my previous dogs and had no issues whatsoever. I do have a crate for my current pup but we use it sparingly. He doesn't sleep in it overnight. However, sometimes he becomes overexcited due to tiredness. What he really needs at those times is a nap but he can't always regulate himself well (much like a tired toddler). So the crate is very handy for that purpose. He always goes in willingly and falls asleep almost immediately.

I expect as he gets older we may stop using the crate at all. He's 6 months old now, so we'll see how things go.

@FindingMeno

Because dogs need interaction not sitting in a crate. If they're going to have a toilet accident to make it that they either have to mess in their own space or suffer is cruel. Because some people seem to think they can go out and leave a dog for hours because the poor dog is in a cage.

Leaving a dog for hours in a crate isn't crate training tho, that's just cruel. Our dog was crate trained as a pup, she's 9 now and still sleeps in there with the door open. The longest she was ever closed in was half an hour when she was a small, very bitey puppy. She takes herself to her crate to snooze during the day, despite having other beds/the sofa. It's her quiet space, has memory foam mattresses, a pillow and her teddies and door is always open

We use a crate for our 5 month old puppy and it's been really useful. We have young children, so it's a safe space for her to go to and sleep, the children know not to bother her if she's in there. She often goes in for a sleep and we leave the door open if we are in the house.

She sleeps all night in it (door closed) and we get up early to take her out in the morning. She goes in if we need to go out. We don't have a utility room or a space that I would feel happy to leave her in safely if we go out. If we were to move somewhere with a utility room, we'd probably use the crate less

It’s so unnecessary.

themuttyprofessor.co.uk/2017/07/20/crate-debate-crate-not-crate/

“ how absurd is it that it’s considered normal to confine an animal to such a small cage for prolonged periods of time, with this space often being just a little larger than their body size?”

“ Dogs are polyphasic sleepers. This means they sleep in short periods, like to get up and move around as well as changing positions.
Changing surfaces that they sleep on also helps them regulate their temperature.
Therefor, crating dogs goes against their natural way of sleeping and removes all option of them fulfilling this instinctive behaviour.”

www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/crating-dogs/
“ a dog crate is just a box with holes in it, and putting dogs in crates is just a way to ignore and warehouse them until you get around to taking care of them properly.”

@gab254

We use a crate for our 5 month old puppy and it's been really useful. We have young children, so it's a safe space for her to go to and sleep, the children know not to bother her if she's in there. She often goes in for a sleep and we leave the door open if we are in the house. She sleeps all night in it (door closed) and we get up early to take her out in the morning. She goes in if we need to go out. We don't have a utility room or a space that I would feel happy to leave her in safely if we go out. If we were to move somewhere with a utility room, we'd probably use the crate less

You leave her in it if you go out?

Is that a long term approach?

They're for the clueless and the lazy. Not necessary at all.

Yes, if we go out, school runs etc, we leave her in there. Would you rather I left her loose in the house? Shut her in the kitchen where she could knock over shelves and hurt herself? Or in the sitting room to chew the sofa?

I'm hardly the first person to leave their puppy in a crate so they don't hurt themselves or cause damage to the house.

When she's older, we don't plan on using it, or if we move and have a safer space for her

Not necessary. You know how to do it. I'd only use one as somewhere safe from the other dog at night when theyre left alone until theyre happy with each other.

@Shmithecat2

They're for the clueless and the lazy. Not necessary at all.

What a ridiculous thing to say

I don't use one - flirted with one with the last pup but she hated it, so I reverted to doing what I'd always done. Like you I was hearing how dogs love their own space etc etc but mine definitely thought it was a terrible idea! It might be more attractive to a pup in a busy house, with small dc and lots of noise - but mine really didn't have anything she needed to get away from.

have a lively lab pup here. I was the same - everyone went on about oh you must crate them, train for a crate. She hated it (perhaps because I did - its a cage in essence) so we used a large pen for sleep and rest and calm times, and stopped at about 6 months, she now has the run of the house, is very calm in the lounge in the evening and sleeps either on the end of our bed or the floor. No chewing or damage and very very well toilet trained (she was always near me so I could see the signs and pop her outside. Happy dog (now 1). Crate not for me.... (although I can see how it can be used as the dogs preferred choice with a young family if the puppy/dog needs their own safe/quiet space)

@gab254

Yes, if we go out, school runs etc, we leave her in there. Would you rather I left her loose in the house? Shut her in the kitchen where she could knock over shelves and hurt herself? Or in the sitting room to chew the sofa?

I'm hardly the first person to leave their puppy in a crate so they don't hurt themselves or cause damage to the house.

When she's older, we don't plan on using it, or if we move and have a safer space for her

I never crated my dog when she was a puppy I used a safety gate across the kitchen diner and she never damaged a thing by the time she was five months old she had the run of downstairs. I left a pad out by the door but think there were only two accidents

Leaving a puppy in a crate when you go out for any length of time or leave them in there asleep with no means of exit is not training it’s incarceration because you don’t want your home wrecked and random peeing if you leave them alone in the house for too long

She is very well house trained, it's not about random weeing in the house. she has frequent short walks, she's let out to play in the garden regularly and she has free roam of downstairs while we are in the house. I feel its safer for her (and for our cats) if she in the crate when we can't be there to supervise her properly.

She is a very happy and very loved puppy and we will do what works best for our family and for her. You do what works best for you. There's no need for insults or accusations

@gab254

She is very well house trained, it's not about random weeing in the house. she has frequent short walks, she's let out to play in the garden regularly and she has free roam of downstairs while we are in the house. I feel its safer for her (and for our cats) if she in the crate when we can't be there to supervise her properly.

She is a very happy and very loved puppy and we will do what works best for our family and for her. You do what works best for you. There's no need for insults or accusations

I’m not insulting you The idea that confining a puppy to a small place makes them less anything is nuts though in fact it can make them more hyper and needy i suspect

You can easily puppy proof a house bit like you do when you have a toddler
I find the stuff about being harmed by falling object etc a bit OTT

The only restrictions I have is she ain’t allowed upstairs and I don’t actually let my dog have the run of the garden for toileting as I have young children she has a gated section of the garden partially patio and shaded

Nobody is saying you don’t love her

Isn’t not ain’t Christ I’m morphing into Eliza Doolittle

I also have cats
They all survived

I didn't say you insulted me. Someone further up the thread did.

I just put forward how we are doing it in response to the OP.

We had a crate with the door open for our dog's puppyhood, it's effectively her bed. It is invaluable now that she is happy to go to her bed and we can shut the crate door if there's a need to open the front door to strangers, or some other chaos going on. As much as I'd love to be able to trust her to stay there without the door shut I can't, she loves any commotion!