Crates

[whatisthisinhere]

My old dog has never been crate trained. I'm getting a new puppy in a cou0,e of months and hear a lot about crate training. It seems I can't read anything about training puppies that doesn't mention crates. Not even as an option but as a must do.
Is it absolutely necessary?I've always just kept puppies near me at night, or slept near them so I can wake if they need to toilet during the night, or are just missing their litter mates. I then train them gradually to be left in the house until they are confident when left. I've never had much destruction, and never had anything harmful happen, and I've owned four dogs as an adult that I have been responsible for.
I really don't want to do it, but am I missing a trick?

Alongside crate training I would also include other basic life skills.

All my puppies will have games and be used to wearing a buster collar, a muzzle, boots on their feet, used to have pretend eye drops and ear drops, used to having their tail lifted for temperatures , happy to have the scruff of their neck held for injections, and being taught how to swallow a treat for ease of medication etc.

The training gives a dog confidence to novel experiences. They may never need to wear boots but if they do it is no big deal . Along the way they had fun and games learning about them.

Same with crate games, fab games that the dogs love to do (if people can be arsed to carry them out) Crate games will also transfer over to basic bed training and stay training. All done in a very positive way.

I guess it just depends on how much effort you can be bothered to put in to preparing your dog for many lofe experiences.

So many ancedotal experiences which mean nothing frenchFancy so your dog spent 8 hours in a vets, however another dog may easily have been on crate rest for 8 weeks - so your point is.

If crates are researched properly (and not just hysterical reaction to them) and the training is considered fun and builds a dogs confidence it is a good thing.

If people lock dogs in crates for hours on end and no training and no interaction then of course that is not correct. However tbh the owners who are locking their dogs in crates for hours will also be lacking in many many areas of dog ownership.

Off to start a thread on what is the best way to feed dogs - lets get all the hysteria and uneducated comments out of the way in one day

I agree with your post @Frenchfancy and I do think the language is interesting.

If someone posted here that they leave their dog alone in a cage while they were out, people would be shouting about animal neglect

I don't get the whole vet or groomer argument personally.

Umm you did icedcoffees although it may not have been what you meant....

I think it depends on the dog.

My old dog was never crate trained, she lived in the kitchen and the door was closed when we went out. She did her fair share of chewing and destruction as a pup but did eventually grow it of it. When she was older she had free run of the house but in all honesty never ventured further than her bed in the kitchen or a sun spot in the living room.

She was a chilled out lady.

Current dog is an absolute knobhead and cannot be left unsupervised.

Not only would he destroy my house (and I mean destroy, not just a bit of chewing) but he would likely do himself serious irreparable damage, because he eats anything and everything that he isn't supposed to.

We trained both dogs in exactly the same way from pups so to people saying "it's for lazy people who can't be bothered with training" in my case that's utter bollocks.

I think it's just in their nature (and linked to breed) that they are different. No two human beings are the same so why would dogs be?

The breeder we bought current dog from advised us to crate train him for his own safety - the breed are notoriously destructive right through adulthood so why would I knowingly put my boy in harms way??

Off to start a thread on what is the best way to feed dogs - lets get all the hysteria and uneducated comments out of the way in one day

What hysteria?

People can disagree with you without being uneducated the use of crates/cages for domestic dogs is very new and clearly isn't a necessity or people would never have had pet dogs before they existed.

I also don't agree that dogs need to be taught everything just in case it might be useful one day.

@lingus

I don't get the whole vet or groomer argument personally.

Umm you did icedcoffees although it may not have been what you meant....

No - I never said it was the case for all dogs - you assumed that's what I meant.

What I said (or meant ) was that I don't think saying dogs sometimes have to be crated at the vets is an argument for crate training all dogs.

I don't think anyone is saying they are a necessity, just how and why they use one. Of course they aren't a necessity, I know lots of people who don't use one, lots of people who do.
It doesn't need to be controversial, I think there's been some assumptions made about people who use crates, that aren't fair or accurate

I crated my puppy because I thought I had to. He hates it. Honestly the day I ditched it was the day I fully bonded with my dog. That and the day I let him sleep in my bedroom! He has his basket on the floor by my bed and he's good as gold and developed a bladder of steel! We are planning a second dog possibly when we move house and I won't be bothering with a crate.

The only crate we use is in the boot of the car and ddog knows they equals a walk adventure so he hops right in!

Oh and a work colleague divulged she was leaving her dog in a crate all day whilst she's at work!! Like 8 hours! Fuck that. That dog wee'd on the floor with excitement as soon as it was let out. Ugh

Lastly I shut ddog in the kitchen with radio 4 when we go out. He gets his dentastix then. He knows the routine and he's very chilled. As long as no appliances are left on.

I wouldn’t crate train a 3 year old toddler! Nor would I crate train a dog. It’s barbaric

It doesn't need to be controversial, I think there's been some assumptions made about people who use crates, that aren't fair or accurate

MN can make anything controversial imo

@Phrenologistsfinger

I wouldn’t crate train a 3 year old toddler! Nor would I crate train a dog. It’s barbaric

I put both my babies in cages... I mean, that’s what cots are really and they serve the same purpose as crates... so...

@Phrenologistsfinger

I wouldn’t crate train a 3 year old toddler! Nor would I crate train a dog. It’s barbaric

FFS, what a stupid comment

@Phrenologistsfinger

I wouldn’t crate train a 3 year old toddler! Nor would I crate train a dog. It’s barbaric

That really made me laugh. Puppies and 3 year olds are not the same, not even comparable

Dogs have the mental age of a three year old. To me it is the same!

I've always crated my Lab. Biggest crate I could get and, when I'm home, door left open so he can come and go as he likes.

Door shut and crate partially covered at night = a peaceful nights sleep. He's never cried or made a mess.

If I pop out to the school run or shop, especially if I'm in the middle of cooking or food prep, I shut the door so I can be sure he's not getting into trouble. He'll snaffle any food left out in a split second! I also pop him away when visitors arrive and then bring him out to calmly say hello once everyone is settled.

Yes, dogs are social creatures - mine will stick his head in my home office to have a cuddle - but they really do spend most of the day asleep, especially when young. As long as they get enough exercise and cuddles in the evening, they're perfectly content.

A dog is not comparable to a child and it's daft to treat them as one. Plenty of working dogs thrive in kennels.

A dog is not comparable to a child and it's daft to treat them as one. Plenty of working dogs thrive in kennels.

Hmm, I don't think you can compare working dogs to pet dogs, to be quite honest with you.

Most working dogs live in packs or with at least one other dog, so they're not shut up in a crate alone (police dogs might be crated alone i cars but otherwise they live in kennels with other dogs, or in the homes of their handlers on their days off).

Kennels also aren't the same as crates - they're generally bigger, have space for the dogs to move around properly (stand, roam, stretch) and again, the dogs generally aren't left there alone.

I have a working breed that traditionally lives in kennels (beagle) but a hunting kennel with a pack of other dogs really isn't comparable to a small cage or crate in a house on your own.

@icedcoffees

Off to start a thread on what is the best way to feed dogs - lets get all the hysteria and uneducated comments out of the way in one day

What hysteria?

People can disagree with you without being uneducated the use of crates/cages for domestic dogs is very new and clearly isn't a necessity or people would never have had pet dogs before they existed.

I also don't agree that dogs need to be taught everything just in case it might be useful one day.

What hysteria "they are for the clueless and lazy, lock my 3 year old in a crate, oh they do, leave the dogs sat in their own mess, etc etc.........

Totally happy for people to have different opinions but do like them to be based on a bit of educated and correct information.

I also don't agree that dogs need to be taught everything just in case it might be useful one day. So what about socialisation no need for that then.

So what about socialisation no need for that then

Yeah, because that's exactly what I said

Socialising dogs so they're happy with daily occurrences (cars, other dogs, children, bikes, traffic lights etc etc.) isn't (IMO) remotely comparable to crate training a dog on the off-chance that they may be put on crate-rest at some point in their lives. Or (to use your earlier example) training them to tolerate a buster collar when they may never actually need to wear one.

I aim for socialisation that will give my dogs resilience to deal with day to day events and one off situations but each to their own.

Wonders off to think how many dogs never wear a buster collar in their lives......

@pastypirate

Oh and a work colleague divulged she was leaving her dog in a crate all day whilst she's at work!! Like 8 hours! Fuck that. That dog wee'd on the floor with excitement as soon as it was let out. Ugh

Yeah, my neighbour does that, also with no water so the dog doesn’t wee. Crates are massively abused so for the greater good I wish they did not exist.

As for working dogs thriving. I have no idea if they are happy or not, they can’t talk, have no choice. They stay alive.
I can’t say I really think that the working dogs in my village are treated well, they get shot as soon as they need serious vet treatment or get above about the age of seven.

I have never crated a dog in my 35 years of having dogs.I raised puppy similar to you.I never had any problems with my puppy not sleeping at night or causing huge amount of damage in house.I personally really dont like the idea of putting an animal in a crate,but I know a lot of people do it.Please dont feel you have to do it,it sounds your puppies so far had a great puppy live.good luck in 2 months when you get your new puppy.

I don’t see how it’s cruel but f the door is open. Our dig us a revue and likes sleeping under things…sofas etc. the crate is good as it has a cover. He doesn’t have to sleep in it but he does.