BIL's dog is aggressive towards DS

[5amwakeup]

My DS is 2 and a half. My DH's brother and SIL have a labrador who is about 3 who he, SIL and his mum adore. They live near eachother and share the dog.

The dog has met my DS around 3 times, each time without an obvious cause the dog has snarled at DS. Each time I've had to pick DS up while the dog is removed. Last time the dog ran towards DS and snapped towards his feet immediately on entering the house. I had to lift him out of reach and move away quickly. I think he may have bit DS if he wasn't removed.

It seems obvious that we can't see the dog again, but I don't know how to broach this with them. They have said they feel embarrassed by the dog's behaviour, but they haven't volunteered how we manage this as a family.

BIL is very firm with the dog and will smack him on the nose for bad behaviour. I think this might be the root of the aggression but I have never had a dog and don't feel qualified to say this.

Any ideas on how to approach this?

How was the dog originally trained? Smacking on the nose is absolutely not ok and only going to make things worse.

Your brother has no business having a dog if he hits him. The dog now associates your son with a violent response from your brother. That isn’t a good thing.

Your BIL hits his dog? What a cunt. I wouldn’t have any contact with people who hit animals so that would solve the issue with your child. And then report this cunt for animal abuse. Poor dog.

What a disgusting excuse for a human being your BIL is. No dog should be smacked. I agree in reporting your BIL or having a very firm word with him - abusive bastard.

I would just be honest. The dog is absolutely not allowed around your child.

How they handle it is up to them. With MIL we agreed her dogs were to be kept in a separate room or behind a gate at all times or the grandchildren wouldn’t be visiting. She was happy with this as as she realised her dogs were also stressed with the situation.
There’s no way I would be using my DC to train an aggressive dog with so don’t go for this suggestion either if they do make it.
Perhaps behind a gate the dog may realise your DC isn’t a threat but I would never risk it after this behaviour.

If the dog is there your child shouldn’t be basically and I would just be straight and say as much!

Or maybe next time you see him smack the dog give him a smack and see how he likes it.

Interesting that posters so far are more sympathetic to the dog than your child.

It's simple, OP. They know the dog is aggressive to your child. It's absolutely reasonable to say "he's an otherwise lovely dog, but I'm sorry, I can't put DS at risk. I know you'll understand as I know you'd feel terrible if something bad happened. So I'm sorry, we can't visit you when the dog is around. Maybe you could consult a professional in the meantime, to find out how to address his behaviour so that we can get back to normal at some point?"

It seems obvious that we can't see the dog again, but I don't know how to broach this with them.

Next time meeting up is suggested, clarify that the dog can’t be there.

That it. It’s not complicated unless you make it so.

Invited to MIL’s - “MIL will the dog be with BIL? Because we can’t have DS around the dog.”

They’re all coming to yours: “Just making sure you know the dog will have to stay at your house.”

Etc.

Put your big girl pants on and tell them the dog cannot be around your son. If it’s there, you won’t be. It’s not difficult.

Also, he’s a cunt for hitting his dog. He’ll be fucked if the dog goes for him, labs are massive.z

Do not let your child near the dog. Set v clear boundaries and stick to them. It's not worth the risk.

Interesting that posters so far are more sympathetic to the dog than your child.

The child has his mum to protect him. It’s obvious that the child shouldn’t be around the dog. The dog is being abused and needs protecting.

Having a correctly trained dog that isn't being trained to expect pain is going to be safer for the child.

The child shouldn't be around the dog, but blaming the dog is not the correct response.

The owners don't know how to train a dog and frankly shouldn't own one.

@5amwakeup
Everyone knows dog is aggressive towards DS just gave a clear conversation.

You don't visit any one's house nor does DA visit or stay over where the dog is

They don't come to your house with dog
They don't meet you out with dog nor visit MILs with dog if DS is there.

That's the rule. I wouldn't even accept "will shut him in another room" as doors can be opened.

Fucking idiot shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a dog. You never ever punish growling. Growling is a warning, a statement of intent. All that teaches him is not to growl. Which then means you have a dog that will lunge and bite with no warning.

You don't smack a dog. For the same reason you don't smack a toddler. They don't understand. They don't have the capacity to link the behaviour to the punishment.

All he is teaching him is that when this little thing that he doesn't like comes in, he gets a wallop. He's going to end up associating your son with being hit which will only escalate the aggression as it then becomes a fear reaction which is much much harder to untrain.

You can't have your son around this dog. It doesn't like him for whatever reason, maybe that's rooted in fear or prey drive, I don't know, you'd have to speak to a behaviourist to get any professional insight but it's not like you can sit it down for a chat to find out.

Your BIL is going to have to commit to the dog being shut away when you visit or just don't visit. I wouldn't even compromise with baby gates tbh I'd want it shut upstairs in another room.

Has the dog ever had a bad experience with your son or any child? Was your son running or making a lot of noise or anything that might have triggered a prey drive? Terriers in particular are known for this. Anything small moves suddenly and they're after it practically before they know they've moved.

What is very clear here, smacking a dogs nose is completely out of order and should never never be used to punish/discipline a dog.A dog's nose is very sensitive and hurting a dogs nose as punishment will make the dog very fearful.there seem to be too many people who really dont know anything much about dogs.In order to deal with your actual problem,I would suggest get a very good qualified trainer/behaviourist in and let her/him assess the situation.Listen to her/him and strictly follow her/his advice.

Just be honest

Obviously the dog cant be anywhere near your child. You need to all have a discussion about what happens

I used to have a small dog who was aggressive in the house to strangers. If anyone visited he was on a lead and muzzled the whole time. With me holding the lead, even if that was all day while we had family over. I’d put him in the car while we ate (big estate car with basket, etc).

I wouldn’t be returning to your in laws until this arrangement is in place. But your BIL sounds clueless because smacking the dog will make things worse.

@SprayedWithDettol

Your brother has no business having a dog if he hits him. The dog now associates your son with a violent response from your brother. That isn’t a good thing.

I agree with this.

It's really simple.

The dog isn't allowed in your house.

Your DS doesn't go anywhere the dog is.
(So he doesn't go to your BILs house or MILs if the dog is there.)

I would also give him a belt him next time I saw him hit the dog
Poor dog

It sounds like the dog sees the child as a threat to its position in the hierarchy. You often see this when you introduce a cute little puppy into a household with established dogs. All the people are like “puppy!! cuuuute!!”, all the dogs are like “die motherfucker die”. There may be other reasons the dog reacts this way, but that ones a classic. It may also just be freaked out by kids in general, but usually with dogs things boil down to hierarchy struggles.
What needs to be done is for the child to be established as firmly higher in the hierarchy than the dog. That could take some doing, depending on the temperament of the dog.
Presuming that employing a dog behaviourist is too much of a faff, as said just keep the dog away from children. And I t’s perfectly okay to request that of dog owners.
Lastly concerning the smacking of the dog; dogs regularly chastise each other physically as a way of maintaining the pecking order. Smacking a dog for growling at a child may not do any good but it won’t do it any harm, and will almost certainly let the dog know that you disapprove. Unfortunately the dog’s dislike of the child as a threat to its status will override what it understands as a mild (non status threatening) chastisement (the smack). Dogs are not toddlers.

You need to confront this situation head on, why are you even questioning what to do? This is an accident waiting to happen and you clearly acknowledge that, so what’s the problem? As for your BIL and his collusive family, I would tackle that too and inform the authorities if necessary.

I'm not surprised the dog is aggressive if it's being smacked around.

I wouldn't see them if the dog was around at all. They'd have to come to my house (sans dog) or we'd meet somewhere where dogs weren't allowed.

@Palmfrond

It sounds like the dog sees the child as a threat to its position in the hierarchy. You often see this when you introduce a cute little puppy into a household with established dogs. All the people are like “puppy!! cuuuute!!”, all the dogs are like “die motherfucker die”. There may be other reasons the dog reacts this way, but that ones a classic. It may also just be freaked out by kids in general, but usually with dogs things boil down to hierarchy struggles. What needs to be done is for the child to be established as firmly higher in the hierarchy than the dog. That could take some doing, depending on the temperament of the dog. Presuming that employing a dog behaviourist is too much of a faff, as said just keep the dog away from children. And I t’s perfectly okay to request that of dog owners. Lastly concerning the smacking of the dog; dogs regularly chastise each other physically as a way of maintaining the pecking order. Smacking a dog for growling at a child may not do any good but it won’t do it any harm, and will almost certainly let the dog know that you disapprove. Unfortunately the dog’s dislike of the child as a threat to its status will override what it understands as a mild (non status threatening) chastisement (the smack). Dogs are not toddlers.

Complete pile of shite

The dog is a predator, your vulnerable child is potential prey in the dogs's mind, anyway your little boy has a right to be safe so the dog must not, under any circumstances be allowed near your child as this dog sounds like it is ready to do your little boy some serious harm.

Sorry this sounds so blunt but its a red flag text book situation and I just hope for the best for you, your baby and your family.