Would you rehome under these circumstances?

[TeenageCockapoo]

I am so, so disappointed to even be writing this thread but it feels like we are now at a point of asking whether our situation with our dog is sustainable.
To cut a long story short- our 15 month old Cockapoo has severe separation anxiety, as well as having fear aggressive tendencies. This combination is making living any kind of 'normal' life really difficult.

We did a lot of research prior to getting a dog, and how it would fit into our life. My partner works in the office 3/4 days a week, whilst I have had almost no office working since Covid apart from the odd day so I planned to mostly look after the dog, with some doggy day care needed. We didn't enter into the decision lightly.
We quickly realised we had a 'velcro' dog- rather than staying sleeping/settled where she is, she will follow me everywhere. She will howl if left in a room, and howl inconsolably if we leave the front door. So we have never left her. We are currently spending a huuuuge amount of time doing the Julie Naismith separation anxiety training, and I now can leave the house for about 18 seconds before she starts crying.
She started showing signs of aggression from about 8 months old- snapping at the odd dog and not wanting strangers to say hello to her. It has developed into she cannot be touched by any stranger (has to be muzzled at the groomers) and cannot meet dogs on lead (fine off lead as she can run away if needed!).

We have spent a fortune on online training programs, trainers and behaviourists. The advice we've received has been very much along the lines of working on engagement/giving treats when she has focused on me- all positive reinforcement. And that works to some extent, but it has only papered over the cracks in that she is still really really fearful, she now just gets a treat for not reacting. I really would rather understand why she is scared in the first place, and how we can make her actually enjoy being out and about. Currently, my partner and I can't leave her but also can't even really go to a dog friendly coffee shop as I am absolutely terrified that she will react to another dog/a stranger will reach out and touch her and she will snap.

For that reason, doggy day care has been a livesaver. She has been to the same day care 2 days per week since she was a tiny puppy. The owner of the day care is a behaviourist, and has always worked with us to understand how our dog is behaving. Recently she has started exhibiting these behaviours at day care, and today they said if there is one more incident of snapping for no reason she will be banned.

I've not got a bloody clue where we go from here. We love her, we really do. She is cuddly and funny and seeing her run around care free is the best thing ever. We would be lost without her. But I'm in my mid 20s, and I have no idea how we ended up with such a difficult dog. What do you do if you have a dog you can't leave at home, can't go to doggy day care, and is reactive when outside?

Apologies for this enormous essay, I'm happy to answer any more questions but I would just really appreciate some wise words on what you do if you end up in this situation.

An 15 month old is nowhere near a mature dog, and a lot of this is adolescent/teenage behaviour. I've got an incredibly nervy 3 yr old sprocker, and in comparison to our older dog, she's a bloody nightmare. She hates other dogs, hates noise and is superglued to my side most of the day. Thank god we run our own business and both dogs come to work with us. She's massively calmed down though in the last year since turning 2. Stick with it, you're not doing anything wrong per se.

We use Yucalm - and really notice if we miss a dose so I'm convinced it's helping. And we make sure that she has two good off lead runs a day to make sure she's physically as well as mentally tired. And check what food you're giving her - a lot of foods these days have way too much protein in which doesn't help.

I think you should probably be realistic that if you did rehome her she’s likely to become worse. I really think that if you don’t want to keep her it would be kinder to pts,

I'm happy to admit we were wrong to get a Cockapoo. My boyfriend's family has a gorgeous, placid Cockapoo and so we were heavily influenced by that as it felt like a known breed to us. I understand why people get them- they are usually a lovely medium size, little to no shedding, and people are influenced by the fact they look like teddy bears! But I agree, terrible idea and only going to get worse over time as more and more see a litter of pups as a route to making several thousand pounds.

My dog (border terrier) didn't have these same issues as your dog but I really do agree when people say that it sounds like a your dog is in the adolescent period. Our dog is 4 now but I remember being in tears many times between puppy-around 3 years old and now he is the most chilled wee guy you'll meet (apart from barking at labradors for some reason ).

But it also really does sound that like you've really tried your best and it's clear how much you love your dog.

Does seem a bit unfair of the doggy day care when they know your dogs temperament yet allowed another dog invade their space when they couldn't escape!

Sadly she is most likely a result of her "breeding". As a vet nurse I see so many cockerpoos that are simply scared of life. It is heartbreaking. I blame the people who farm these dogs as cash cows and it makes me so angry.

Two highly strung, high energy breeds as a first time family dog? Err no.

On paper they tick every box - good size, non moulting, cute AF especially as puppies but the result of this latest trend in designer dogs with fucking ridiculous names is a lot of heart ache for families like yourself, being sold a "family friendly" dog that as a result of bad breeding and inexperience end up with a nervous aggressive dog that spends half its life in an anxious state.

I know there will be people who will shout me down and tell me about their lovely super confident and friendly dogs and I am glad for them, truly I am but I have seen waaaay to many examples as I have described above to not be concerned about it.

I really feel for you OP. Have you tried things like pet remedy or adaptil?

Wow. All these people who have never met this dog and advocate killing her as the kindest option. A rescue will take her. Give her the chance of life and rehabilitation. Nothing you mention is serious enough to be a death warrant in an 18 month old dog.

Have you ever owned a dog before? Why can’t you build up the separation training - she can’t howl forever why have you let this snowball into a massive issue? Why aren’t you leaving her for 5 minutes on day one, 7 minutes day 2 and so on?

I don’t really understand why you can’t fix these problems. The dog wasn’t born bad and is still a juvenile. Why not take it to actual, physical weekly socialisation and obedience classes? Or agility to build her confidence. Or both.

Instead your solution is to give up and pass her to someone else. It’s really sad.

on a day to day basis it works for us

I don’t know why you’re thinking you should rehome then.

Don’t send her to daycare where they let dogs approach other fear-reactive dogs in a confined space. That’s not good practice at all. You can get a different walker or daycare.

You say yourself you haven’t been consistent- yes, you should take 2 weeks off and focus on her.

Someone else mentioned Absolute Dogs - check out their Naughty But Nice programme. It’s positive training via games that will address the confidence issue she has - and that you have with her.

You would be shocked how many people we have to say 'please don't touch her!' to because she looks like Waffle the wonder doggy from CBBC.

That’s ignorant people. Get her a yellow ‘reactive’ jacket and lead for when you’re out and about.

Read up on the ‘bucket’ theory of trigger stacking and understand when she needs to decompress. She may appear to like daycare and you find it a lifesaver but it probably overstimulates her.

I really feel for you, it sounds like you are trying really hard. Great advice from previous posters, but I'd echo that you are probably the best home she is going to get. If you move her on her stress levels will increase and likely lead to worsening behaviour.

She is still young and may settle once she's past 2 and out of her 'teenage years'. If you are willing to persevere then consistency is key, find out what she is fearful of and work on it, avoid situations you know she will be reactive.

I know you say you're surprised at people suggesting pts but it really isn't the worst thing if the alternative for her is a stressful life, being moved on when people realise the cuteness doesn't make up for her issues. Having an animal pts, when it is planned and you're prepared, is a calm and quiet passing, they are not aware of what is happening like we are. I don't mean to upset you but if you're new to dog / pet ownership you maybe haven't experienced it.

Do what is right for your dog. And I think you are best placed to know what that is.

@Gribbit987 I have never owned a dog before. My partner has grown up with dogs.

We absolutely are building up the separation anxiety training but it's really tricky. The basis of it is called 'sub threshold' training i.e. the dog never gets to the point of howling in the first place. In the very early days of realising she had separation anxiety we got some advice from a behaviourist to leave her shut in the living room, and only come back in once she was quiet for a full 60 seconds. It took 1 hour 45 minutes, and she was completely distressed. So we have started completely from the beginning, with the game of 'door is a bore'- getting her used to the sound of the door opening, the sound of the lock and so on. Now I can walk out of the door for a few seconds and come back in and she has sat on the stairs for the whole time. So there is progress!
Agility is not recommended prior to 18 months of age, so we haven't tried that. We would love to take her to weekly in person classes, but we were in lockdown when she was the right age for typical puppy classes, and now I worry an adolescent dog class with lots of dogs on lead around her would be stressful for her. I'm sorry you think it's sad that we are considering rehoming. I have spent 15 months doing everything, everything I can for this dog who we love so much.

@NoSquirrels You're right, it works on a day to day basis and that's why it's so frustrating that we can't quite seem to make our life work. The crux of the issue is that I have a career where needing to go into the office is infrequent but important when needed- being there in person for a big team meeting is important. For those days, we need the dog to either be okay with being alone for 4 hours or to be in the care of another person/doggy day care. That is the impasse we are at right now.

If you are seriously considering rehoming, try Spaniel Aid. They help spaniel crosses as well as spaniels, & have experience dealing with behavioural issues.

I'm so sorry you had such awful advice from the first trainer. It must be really disheartening to realise the advice you paid for made things worse.

I highly recommend the Facebook group Dog Training Advice and Support. It is positive reinforcement based training - I'm personally a bit wary of balanced training as some seem to use aversives, which isn't the approach we wanted to use.

Their guidance was and is invaluable with our cocker spaniel. They absolutely can be velcro dogs - I didn't go to the loo alone for months - but at 13 months we can happily leave him for up to 4 hours.

Our main issue has been a bit different - resource guarding - but consistently repeating the advice is now starting to reap rewards so I would say change is possible, but setbacks are very disheartening and it can take a week to recover from a slip up that takes seconds. We now have a dog who repeatedly brings us objects but its so much better than a dog who steals and guards them - hoping to gradually move this on to only bringing objects when asked!

She is still pretty young, I would imagine with maturity she has the capacity to improve. Would you consider another dog? I’ve always had dogs in pairs and IMO it seems to work, less stressful and less reliance on their human. I often have friend's single dogs to stay and they always seem to thrive with their own company,

I haven’t been to the toilet alone for years.

I know I couldnt live a life ruled by a dog. I don't see thd point in rehoming if even the behaviourist can't cope with the bad behaviour. Medication might be the answer if the vet has recommended it.

I'd really recommend finding an IMDT accredited dog trainer as they are very robustly qualified and use scientifically robust and ethical methods.

I've no idea where you're based obviously, but if it were possible for you to use Chirag Patel you would be in extremely good hands. He consults for Guide Dogs on behavioural issues and is truly excellent.

Given her breeding I'd be concerned she was actually (unknown to you) puppy farmed and that's why all these issue are coming up. She just might not have had proper very early socialisation before she came to you, and may have been born to a stressed mother. Then lockdowns on top won't have helped. For this reason I think you need to find a really top rated specialist and stick with them. The person that essentially told you to do "cry it out" with her sounds like a fool to me.

Good luck!

I'm surprised nobody has picked up on th3 doggy daycare issue ... you say the person running it is a behaviourist but I would question how anyone who knows anything about dogs would accept a young puppy into a daycare setting?! It is absolutely unsuitable for young immature dogs to be in a daycare setting until they are 6 months minimum, usually more like 12 months. Exposure to such an environment can lead to exactly the situation you're describing as your poor dog's been overwhelmed by other dogs constantly during their time at daycare.
I would persevere with the behaviourist (if they're actually accredited) to treat the separation anxiety and look into finding a good dog walker who will take her out every day - the routine will do her good and a decent dog walker can work with you on her socialisation and confidence.

She's still a baby, don't give up on her yet

For those days, we need the dog to either be okay with being alone for 4 hours or to be in the care of another person/doggy day care. That is the impasse we are at right now.

I get that - I’ve been that person who’s usually home for the dog but sometimes cannot be for the same reasons. But then it’s like childcare, tbh - you need a couple of trusted options, and a fallback position of the other ‘parent’ taking time off for dog/child.

So your DP needs to feel equally as responsible for the dog - but does he? Because he is the ‘care of another person’ that you should look to first.

Also, the doggy daycare you use currently is not the only option for care. There will be less stimulating ones, or ones where she’s only in a group of one or two others, or doesn’t have to be in the car/transported as a group. A stranger doesn’t stay a stranger for long with copious treats and fun stuff.

Honestly, even ‘perfect’ dogs need this stuff sorted out - for every chilled dog that lets anyone pet them and is non-reactive on lead there is the flip side of unreliable recall and a tendency to piss off at unpredictable moments (ask me how I know!)

Separation anxiety is tough, but you’re seeing progress.

The dog-friendly cafe stuff - don’t let your anxiety stop you doing things, just manage the situation (yellow jacket, pick table carefully, resist all strokers etc)

Don’t give up, is what I’m saying. Because these issues that you’ve described, whilst frustrating, are the frustrations of being responsible for a dependant with a personality rather than irresolvable issues for the dog.

I promise you I’m often saying the opposite on these threads - rehome the dog if your household isn’t right fir it. But you’ve got a treatable/trainable issue (separation anxiety) and a logistics problem.

If you do decide to re home then pupcakes rescue in Lincolnshire have a lot of experience with cockapoos. I have a trainer we worked with if you're in the northwest? Helped us with our jack Russel x and helped us not make the same mistakes with our border terrier

What does her breeder say? Presumably you've spoken to them about it? A responsible breeder will take back their old puppies.

Is the behaviourist dog carer actually accredited to proper organisation, because it seems totally normal reaction for a fearful dog to let it be known it's uncomfortable with a close meeting while trapped in a crate. Is she still able to mix with some dogs that she has been able to gradually get to know at daycare? There could be other options for care if it's not everyday and by the sounds of it she requires careful management but is ok with people she's had time to gain trust in.

Tom of Absolute Dogs is a vet/ behaviourist (behavet) and so perhaps with consult from similar who can prescribe both medication & behaviourial treatment plan would be useful.

Maybe have a 6month plan to trial Anxiety medication as can take while to take effect and that potentially that could make a big difference, seek out a qualified & experienced behaviourist and focus on consistent training for duration. During that time investigate re-home option via rescue as you'd need to allow time for a space to be available as many have waiting lists. Euthanasia is also an acceptable option if there isn't any improvement.

There are rescues about that have experience in rehabilitating and homing the more challenging dogs. Her issues maybe less of an issue to people in different circumstances but of course are fewer of those wanting to foster/adopt that will always have someone home are fairly anti-social and rural living.
www.facebook.com/pupcakesrescue/ I don't know this rescue to recommend, just noticed the post on the mass of oodlepoos they'd had in.

Our first rescue dog had separation anxiety; wanted me within sight at all times, I couldn't even go to the bathroom without him , and extreme destruction when first left alone in the house. I trained him out of it and within weeks he was perfectly happy to be left.

I would casually say goodbye ( just low key , no big farewell drama cuddles) and go out of the front door leaving him in the hall. Close front door; then go straight back in ( no time for him to start wrecking) ; say hello calmly then just walk past the dog and don't fuss it. No big drama greetings. I repeated this several times a day Once he grasped that going out meant I would soon come back, he relaxed. Then I just extended the time I stayed outside; slowly. Five minutes, and when that seemed ok, 10.

There is no substitute for the owner training their own dog. That's how you build trust, respect, security a relationship. It takes YOUR time and patience and repetition.

I think your mistake is not leaving her at all. A brief minute or two howling won't harm her..She has to learn that being left is normal and realise you will come back. She hasn't been abandoned forever.

 I also think you're misreading the snapping as aggression;   in the circumstances you describe it's actually  fear,  insecurity , anxiety  and defence . Any competent,. qualified  dog  trainer or behaviourist   or doggy day care minder should have  explained that. 

She's afraid of being touched by strangers SO DONT LET THEM DO IT.
When you're with the dog and she's on lead , it's your job to prevent unwelcome advances and contact. Do not use an extending long lead so she's 7 yards away; ; use a fixed length lead about 1 m long so she is always close to you. Watch people; if the try to approach the dog get between her and them and tell them in a clear firm voice " NO. Please Don't touch". If they stand and chat for a few minutes, they still can't try a pat or offer a treat.

Get a dog jacket and lead that carry a noticeable sign NERVOUS DOG NO CONTACT. This shorter lead will also ensure that you can keep some distance between her and other dogs.

When visitors come to the house, ask them to totally ignore the dog; no touching, no eye contact, no calling the dog to them, no invitation to play with toys or take a treat. You don't make any fuss of the dog either. That way the dog can learn that strangers are no threat.

TBH I think it's self-defeating to pay strangers (trainers/minders) to socialise a nervous dog and make it want to meet strangers. They are probably a large part of her anxiety / dislike of new people. To a young pup, doggy day care probably feels like abandonment.

I'm really surprised people are telling you to have to her PTS. She's not even reached adulthood yet!

I know she has behavioural problems but she's also a teenager who has hormones raging through her and I've never met a dog who wasn't an absolute nightmare one way or another during their teenage years. My own dog was horrendous and his behaviour had me in tears numerous times! He'll be four in February and is mostly absolutely fine now.

I understand what the daycare is saying in that they need to prioritise all the dogs and not just yours. Having a dog on the premises that can be reactive is tough when there are other dogs around, staff and owners coming and going etc. It's pretty standard for daycares not to take on reactive or aggressive dogs (even if that reaction is based in fear) because if they react and cause a fight it's the daycare owner that's seen as responsible for it.

I would look on IMDT and get help from a proper behavioural expert alongside some medication from a vet. There is absolutely nothing wrong in using drugs to help your dog - they can suffer with anxiety just like we can and medication can be an absolute lifesaver.

Good luck. I don't think you actually want to rehome her, I think you're overwhelmed with what daycare have told you and have gotten yourself into a panic!

@2bazookas

Our first rescue dog had separation anxiety; wanted me within sight at all times, I couldn't even go to the bathroom without him , and extreme destruction when first left alone in the house. I trained him out of it and within weeks he was perfectly happy to be left.

I would casually say goodbye ( just low key , no big farewell drama cuddles) and go out of the front door leaving him in the hall. Close front door; then go straight back in ( no time for him to start wrecking) ; say hello calmly then just walk past the dog and don't fuss it. No big drama greetings. I repeated this several times a day Once he grasped that going out meant I would soon come back, he relaxed. Then I just extended the time I stayed outside; slowly. Five minutes, and when that seemed ok, 10.

There is no substitute for the owner training their own dog. That's how you build trust, respect, security a relationship. It takes YOUR time and patience and repetition.

I think your mistake is not leaving her at all. A brief minute or two howling won't harm her..She has to learn that being left is normal and realise you will come back. She hasn't been abandoned forever.

 I also think you're misreading the snapping as aggression;   in the circumstances you describe it's actually  fear,  insecurity , anxiety  and defence . Any competent,. qualified  dog  trainer or behaviourist   or doggy day care minder should have  explained that. 

She's afraid of being touched by strangers SO DONT LET THEM DO IT.
When you're with the dog and she's on lead , it's your job to prevent unwelcome advances and contact. Do not use an extending long lead so she's 7 yards away; ; use a fixed length lead about 1 m long so she is always close to you. Watch people; if the try to approach the dog get between her and them and tell them in a clear firm voice " NO. Please Don't touch". If they stand and chat for a few minutes, they still can't try a pat or offer a treat.

Get a dog jacket and lead that carry a noticeable sign NERVOUS DOG NO CONTACT. This shorter lead will also ensure that you can keep some distance between her and other dogs.

When visitors come to the house, ask them to totally ignore the dog; no touching, no eye contact, no calling the dog to them, no invitation to play with toys or take a treat. You don't make any fuss of the dog either. That way the dog can learn that strangers are no threat.

TBH I think it's self-defeating to pay strangers (trainers/minders) to socialise a nervous dog and make it want to meet strangers. They are probably a large part of her anxiety / dislike of new people. To a young pup, doggy day care probably feels like abandonment.

^^ This 100% I have a rescue puppy, now 11 months old who was absolutely terrified of everything and we’ve worked slowly and consistently with her. Daycare is an absolute no no, she would be utterly overwhelmed, even meeting 2 dogs together worries her although she is getting better - I am very selective about which dogs she approaches - her body language is luckily very obvious. I never force meetings with humans either, it’s very much up to who she feels comfortable with. She’s coming on really well but it’s going to be a long term learning curve for both of us. Some dogs are naturally reserved and prefer to be less friendly towards other dogs and people, there’s nothing wrong in that, it’s just how they are.

I would definatley consult a registered behaviourist and go back to the beginning with her.
She’s telling you (and daycare) by her behaviour that she is uncomfortable. I wouldn’t take her back. Every time she has this negative reaction or a negative experience it will reinforce the fear. You really need to police every single experience she has at this point so that it’s positive. Personally I don’t let mine meet strange dogs, I don’t see the point and prefer to train them to focus on me instead. Not all dogs are social butterflies and that’s okay but she can’t be allowed to bark and snap as a reaction.

It’s difficult as you can’t leave her at all for separation anxiety training to be effective but at the same time in nervous dogs it’s often best to train with distance from the ‘scary’ thing in mind with a less is more approach.

Unfortunately I see this so much in cockerpoos. A huge amount of them
are genetically nervous or aggressive and the rest have the poodle separation anxiety problems. Unfortunately you seem to have got the worst of both breeds. I can’t wait for the popularity to die down!

I'd speak to a very about medication. There is stuff out there which can help take the edge of their anxiety. Someone I know put it off for ages, thinking it was awful to medicate their dog. They are a regular dog foster home and a very experienced owner of their breed, but they had a rescue they just couldn't get through to. They used this medication and it changed in a day. Just took the edge off his panic, so he could focus on his training - but didn't change his day to day personality at all. It just stopped him throwing himself at passing cars etc. It's not perfect now but 100% better and more manageable. I think there are also supplements out there which are meant to help calm.

I think that people are only suggesting pts if OP can’t deal with her dog rather than rehome it and that's purely because it would be a very special home who would take the dog on and then not end up passing it on again. Cocker pools are cute, desirable and expensive so it wouldn’t be hard to find it a new home but the right forever home would be very very hard and I’m sure even people who believed they could cope with the dog might find they actually couldn’t.
The pts suggestions were only if the alternative was multiple rehoming