Help with off lead etiquette

[fyodor11]

We have rehomed a dog, she is 14 month old German Shepherd cross (possibly with Staffy), medium sized. She is lovely and very soppy, good as gold at home and with the children. I am home in the week and walk her on lead with a couple of times a week visiting an enclosed dog play paddock for socialisation. She is not aggressive but likes boisterous play and this seems to have been good at calming her a bit, when we first got her she tried to approach and play with every dog we met. My husband takes her out more at the weekend and today we went together, he let her off lead in an appropriate section of the trust but her recall is not bomb proof when other dogs are around. She approached some other dogs of which 3 were off lead and one on. Two had a little sniff with her and one was barking but told by its owner to lay down and did so. The on lead dog was turned away and shielded by the owner. My dog did not return immediately to us when called, she would come near then skedaddle again and returned to the group of dogs. She wasn’t remotely aggressive but bouncy and obviously not entirely under our control. Nothing was said but I felt we were entirely in the wrong, do I insist she is kept on lead at all times until she becomes more disinterested in other dogs and her recall is solid? I have received lots of conflicting advice from other owners and we are just a few weeks in. She is a lovely dog but I am getting quite anxious, I don’t know how she would react if another dog firmly warned her off. Thank you

As a rule of thumb, if I see that a dog is being kept on a lead, I put mine on her lead since her recall isn't 100% (but is pretty good) and, like yours, she is very friendly. Dogs can be on leads for a number of reasons - fear-reactive, reactive, terrible recall. I therefore think it better to have mine under control - nothing worse for a fear-reactive dog to have another friendly dog bounce up. Most owners say "thank you" and often then say why they are on the lead - e.g. can't let him off since no guarantee of him coming back etc. I love having mine off the lead and seeing them play together so I wouldn't say always keep her on the lead. Train, train and re-train on recall - she is a youngster and sounds as thought she has truly landed on her feet with you.

a long, training, line is your best friend, invest in a good one. NOT a retractible lead - a long line that you let trail behind the dog. I makes it easy to grab / stamp on when you are trying to reinforce recall. It might take a while, depending on the dog, but you end up letting her off when no other dogs around and make sure you are frequently recalling for treats and praise, when you spot another dog in the distance, or you know there are likely to be dogs, you snap on the long line - she feels "free" so you are able to still do the recall training, but you are able to stop her in a way you can't when she is just off lead.

Yes, it will get wet and muddy - get used to that - but it WILL work if you are consistent and keep at it. I took on a 6 month old with no recall and I had to use the long line, on and off, for 18 months. I thought I'd never get there - but I did. He now turns on a sixpence to come straight back when I whistle. He will come away from other dogs and not approach them IF I am onto him quickly enough.

German shepherds are lovely dogs and they love to please, as do Staffy's so you should be fine. As JamieFrazers said if you train, train and retrain on the recall it will really be worth it. I have three, one reactive (permanently on lead) and the other two wander about until I recall if they go a bit far. I can watch them play with other dogs and confidently walk in the other direction saying "come on" and know they will follow me. It makes dog walking a pleasure once you crack it.

I have the same rule as the PP - other dog on a lead then mine goes on straight away.

One tip is to have a really really high value treat (e.g. tin of sardines) and if/when they manage to recall from an exciting situation you rip it open and dump the contents on the ground. They get the instant reward for managing to listen even when they're super excited.

Another thing you can do if they won't come to you is make excited, high-pitch noises and run in the opposite direction - you need to become more interesting than the other dog . But yes to the long lead so hopefully you don't get to the point of needing to look like a loon squeaking and running

Thank you both so much, definitely will swap to a training lead long line and persevere, you are right, she is very eager to please and has made great strides already, her recall is good providing I see the dog or squirrel first (which I do surprisingly often considering she is a Shepherd!) but she probably does stray too far or into the undergrowth and whilst she comes back to check she may be 20m away at points which is an eternity if I spot something. I wanted to check that I wasn’t damaging her by being cautious, husband and I had dogs in the 70s and 80s when it seemed a bit more anything goes but I don’t want her scaring other dogs and shouting ‘don’t worry she is friendly’ from 20 metres away I know is awful ownership. Thank you, long line and training training training and I suspect she is at heart a dog that will want strong guidance and clear boundaries to fulfil her potential, she is really very good. Thank you

Thank you Gribbie and I very much hope to see you on a walk one day, you will be easy to spot!! She isn’t very treat orientated at the moment but I suspect I haven’t broken out the good enough stuff!

Gribbie does exactly what I do. I recall and reward and then scatter high value treats to keep her sniffing and engaged with me. It does mean that I always keep my eyes on the horizon for other dogs. I even do it if the other dog is off lead so our dog then waits for me to give her the nod that she can play. We do have a very food motivated dog though.

Adding to the above, don't worry about another dog "telling yours off". It's the way mother dogs train their pups, and will teach yours to respect other dogs' boundaries.

You were unfortunately in the wrong in that situation. The dog that was on the lead and being shielded from your dog could be really a set back now from that encounter. Like PP say, the general rule is: if another dog is on a lead either yours needs to be or it needs to be under rock solid heel control until you’ve passed them.

Keep training, you’ve got a clever breed and you’ll get there. Just keep a better eye on your surroundings while you’re working on it.

Thank you for asking and trying to do the right thing.
I have a big breed. She is a very nervous rescue but her nerves show as aggression. We walk her "out of hours" and as far away from others as possible. She is always on a lead and has a yellow lead slip.
We are training and she is doing so much better but an off (or on an extendable) lead dog in her face would set her back days. It would mean a few days of no walks while she decompresses. It would mean a knock to my confidence.
Having dogs walk by and ignore her is doing great things for her training. We even had an amazing spaniel and owner cycle/run (the owner was the one on a bike 😂) straight passed recently and she barely had time to bat an eyelid.
Always take good treats, we use something she doesn't ever get at home. And invest in a treat pouch. My best buy!

Please don't allow an off-lead to approach an on-lead dog.

Dogs are on-lead for all sorts of reasons, including injury, blindness/deafness, reactivity, aggression, bitches in season - by allowing your dog to approach you are putting her at risk of sustaining a nasty bite, and unfortunately, the blame for that would be on your shoulders as, by law, an on-lead dog is "under control" whereas an off-lead dog is not.

It is really hard when your dog has dodgy recall, but that's where long-lines/lunge-lines come in :) just keep persevering and she'll get there, she's only young! It's much, much better to keep her on lead for too long, than to let her off to early when she's not ready.

Just wanted to add - persevere and you'll get there. It's SO hard to practice recall if they're just on or off lead so training lines are brilliant because they're your back up. Try Pippa Mattinson's book on it as well (total recall). It's really fantastic and easy to follow.

@icedcoffees

Please don't allow an off-lead to approach an on-lead dog.

Dogs are on-lead for all sorts of reasons, including injury, blindness/deafness, reactivity, aggression, bitches in season - by allowing your dog to approach you are putting her at risk of sustaining a nasty bite, and unfortunately, the blame for that would be on your shoulders as, by law, an on-lead dog is "under control" whereas an off-lead dog is not.

It is really hard when your dog has dodgy recall, but that's where long-lines/lunge-lines come in :) just keep persevering and she'll get there, she's only young! It's much, much better to keep her on lead for too long, than to let her off to early when she's not ready.

I have a very nervous rescue puppy, she’s 9 months old. She’s very nervous of bigger dogs and if two approach her she sees herself in fright. I deliberately keep at a fair distance from other dogs and I am sick, sorry and tired of being told ‘He’s friendly’, ‘He won’t hurt’, ‘He wants to be friends’ because off lead dogs have charged up to us. I have a brightly coloured lead, it’s obvious she’s on the lead. I do not want your blasted dog(s) near me. I am working with a behaviourist but the actions of others are stunting my pup’s development.

Wees herself in fright

@YanTanTetheraPetheraPimp I'm sorry - it is so, so hard.

I walk a rescue dog who did the same as what you describe, she would pee herself in fear - happily it's been 8-9 months now and she's doing SO much better. She's still nervous but she doesn't wee herself anymore :) It can get better so please take some reassurance in that.

I totally get what you mean by other peoples' actions hampering your progress. The words "don't worry, she's friendly!" are the worst words I can hear as a dog walker!

Same as the others I’m afraid, you don’t let an off-lead dog charge up to an on-lead dog, and I’m also sick of hearing ‘it’s ok he’s friendly!’. My dog is ancient, rickety, half blind and deaf. If something like a staffy cross came belting up it would terrify us both, they’re strong heavy dogs and one launching at my dog would send him flying. I’d probably pick him up sharpish and be quite unfriendly about it.

I'm quite known as the nasty (breed of dog) lady in our local areas because I will bellow across the park at anyone whose dog is out of control that approaches my dog who unfortunately has to be on the lead at all times. It is dangerous for my dog, yours and it sets my training back EVERY time another dog approaches off lead and bounces about. I will not keep my dog muzzled as she will not engage with an on or off lead dog at all because she's been trained not to unless they start bounding around her and then she either gets terrified (big dog that's not of her breed) or excited (small dog). She won't go to attack either but the risk of a fight with a bigger dog is far worse for her, and with a small dog if she gets overexcited she'll unintentionally hurt it. If you do not have bombproof recall do not let your dog off a lead in a public area.

To an extent it’s a vicious circle because recall training in the abstract is fine and can be perfect but it can be different once there’s the attraction of another dog. Our (unmuzzled) greyhound is now very good in not bounding over to on lead dogs but in the training phase he sometimes wasn’t. It probably does help if you just apologise profusely and say he’s in training rather than go for the “he’s friendly” line.

It's also not acceptable to leap on or hump other dogs, including off-lead dogs. Not all dogs appreciate boisterous play so your dog needs to learn that her attempt to initiate play must be polite.

@Definitelyrandom

To an extent it’s a vicious circle because recall training in the abstract is fine and can be perfect but it can be different once there’s the attraction of another dog. Our (unmuzzled) greyhound is now very good in not bounding over to on lead dogs but in the training phase he sometimes wasn’t. It probably does help if you just apologise profusely and say he’s in training rather than go for the “he’s friendly” line.

TBH, no, it doesn't help as it still causes issues for the on lead dog that's being pestered.

If your dog doesn't have a reliable recall then keep it on the lead or use a longline attached to their harness so you can stamp on it and stop them approaching.

I walk on lead dogs who are so petrified of dogs approaching them (due to their backgrounds) that they will wet themselves in fear. They shouldn't have to be terrified to that extent just because other people don't want to walk their dogs on leads

Many thanks for all your responses, I shall absolutely adhere to on lead training for now until I am more confident in her recall. She has improved already coming to heal on the retractable lead so I can short line her when we approach other dogs. I agree with you all but not to be obtuse or argumentative, is there no mitigation in being in a designated off lead area in a large Trust with both on and off lead walks and areas, is there no expectation that there might be some polite interest if we are in an off lead part? Many thanks

It depends what ‘off lead part’ is IMO - if it’s a designated, enclosed dog park where the main purpose is pretty much to allow dogs to run off lead safely then fair enough, I wouldn’t put an on-lead-only-for-whatever-reason dog in that situation and expect everyone to keep their dog away. Not many of those if you’re in the UK though.

If it’s an area where dogs are permitted to be off lead but otherwise open access, public right of way etc. then on lead etiquette should still apply.

The thing that’s often forgotten is that if your dog is running over to another dog, on or off lead and the other dog is reacting, terrified or having to tell it off... it’s not just recall that’s an issue, your dog has a social skills problem and it’s that behavioural issue that’s actually causing problems.

If your dog has absolutely zero recall, but normal social skills - it would avoid the other dog all by itself.

Yes, you can manage the behavioural issue with good recall because you can then intervene before your dog can do anything.

But realistically it’s not about on or off lead etiquette... it’s, don’t let dogs with behavioural issues offlead unless you can manage your dog.

@Fyodor22

Many thanks for all your responses, I shall absolutely adhere to on lead training for now until I am more confident in her recall. She has improved already coming to heal on the retractable lead so I can short line her when we approach other dogs. I agree with you all but not to be obtuse or argumentative, is there no mitigation in being in a designated off lead area in a large Trust with both on and off lead walks and areas, is there no expectation that there might be some polite interest if we are in an off lead part? Many thanks

Unless it's a secure field for off lead dogs only, then no, unfortunately not.

Areas where dogs are allowed off lead are not the same as off-lead only. Like a PP said if your dog goes bounding up to an on-lead dog and pesters it, it has poor social skills as well as poor recall.

My dog is good off lead, if she sees another dog off lead she has a quick check if I'll let her go by looking back at me. If I don't want her to go because the other dog is on a lead or doesn't look welcoming she gets a treat or a throw of her ball instead when she comes back to.me.
I used Total Recall Pippa Matheson book for training and still do some of the games daily. I think it really helped and it has sections for older/ rescue dogs too.