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If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Original poster

Entire Males & Day Care

48 replies

JengaCupboard · 06/10/2021 15:57

I have a large breed of pedigree dog whereby the recommended neutering age is min 18 months and ideally 24+. He is nowhere near this age as yet - still a baby... a giant one.

He attends a daycare 2-3 days a week on a farm in the next village to where I work which he loves. No problems at all so far, and training/socialising is going really well generally...

The day care provider has expressed that her terms (which I knew before sending him) include no entire males over the age of 12 months due to having reached sexual maturity between 9-12 months and risk of aggression etc. Dogs are welcome back 2 weeks post neutering.

If my dog isn't mature enough to be neutered for 6-12 months after this cut off date, am I to assume that his behavior will remain unchanged relatively speaking until this point, or should I realistically expect to have to arrange alternate care in the period between 12 months and his eventual neutering?

If anyone has experience of this I'd be grateful for your input. Thanks :)

OP posts:
GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat · 06/10/2021 16:02

Also interested in answers. Neutering isn't really as clear cut as it used to be and daycares seem to be a bit behind in their policy to reflect this.

alpinia · 06/10/2021 16:11

Our vet no longer advises neutering of large breed male dogs while they are young. Nor of dogs with various nervous personality types.

Near us, some walkers/day care will not take them but others will. It's a bit of shopping around really. Some were willing to make exceptions but others have a blanket ban you just have to respect.

Asdf12345 · 06/10/2021 16:17

If your current providers policy is that they will not take your dog you should make alternate arrangements.

Their policy sounds like it is for the benefit of their staff and other customers, arguments about delaying neutering for your dog’s benefit don’t change their duty of care to those parties.

gardeninggirl68 · 06/10/2021 16:18

Why do they insist on neutered males ( apart from the obvious reasons)?

Original poster
JengaCupboard · 06/10/2021 16:22

I am really pleased with his current placement which is a relief as shopping around as such has been almost impossible. Lots of places locally as we're rural, but with people returning to work, EVERYWHERE (decent) has been absolutely full, even to the point of closing their wait list. I was on the wait list from when the whelp was confirmed for him! Madness!

Having re-read her email I think she will keep him as long as his behavior is 'acceptable'... however the time line for this who knows? I may ask the vet as he's going for a third parvo jab imminently...

OP posts:
Original poster
JengaCupboard · 06/10/2021 16:26

@gardeninggirl68

Why do they insist on neutered males ( apart from the obvious reasons)?
My understanding is that entire males who have reached sexual maturity can become aggressive with other dogs/bitches, which can/will lead to fighting. Excessive testosterone in a day care setting isn't ideal for other dogs or the staff, so I guess they're obviously looking to avoid potential dangerous situations.
OP posts:
XelaM · 06/10/2021 16:46

Our entire male poodle has lived to be 16 and had never been aggressive to any dogs. I think it depends on the dog

BiteyShark · 06/10/2021 16:53

I have seen policies like that so you may have to really shop around which is a shame if he is really settled at that daycare because I have found my dog prefers some daycare settings and not others.

It was never an issue for me because I always planned on getting him neutered before age 1 but mine is a medium breed.

icedcoffees · 06/10/2021 17:52

Neutering isn't the "cure all" for behavioural problems that people once believed it was.

However, saying that, many daycares will be restricted by licensing - which varies depending on area, the size of your business, how many dogs you have etc. You also have the issue that many neutered males are prone to aggression towards entire males.

However, if your dog is happy and well rounded I would absolutely not risk upsetting that by getting him neutered even once he is fully grown. Neutering can cause issues with fear and can, in many cases, make aggression worse.

It may be best for you to look long-term and see if you can find another provider for him, or see if he can go with a dog walker instead as they're generally able to be much more flexible Smile

Original poster
JengaCupboard · 07/10/2021 08:32

@icedcoffees this is interesting...

I'm not considering neutering from a behavioral point specifically, more what I have read and researched about more general health benefits, but then there is arguments for both...i'm conflicted I must admit, but if i'm to utilise daycare there appears to be little option, but should that dictate the health and wellbeing of my dog... definitely not.

All others we have had historically as a family (large breed but not this type) have been left entire with no issues, but day care was never required.

I think I may just need to sound him out and see how he develops going forward - the prospect of a dog walker when he is older and able to be left for short periods might be worth considering.

OP posts:
BiteyShark · 07/10/2021 08:36

think I may just need to sound him out and see how he develops going forward - the prospect of a dog walker when he is older and able to be left for short periods might be worth considering.

Just to be aware I have seen some walkers state on their website that unneutered dogs must be walked onlead and on their own which would limit times when they could do that.

XiCi · 07/10/2021 09:26

I didn't think neutering was recommended at all anymore. Also thought that the aggression problem was neutered males attacking entire males not the other way round. There's no way I'd get my dog neutered just to pacify a day care owner. I'd be looking at other options.

EvilRingahBitch · 07/10/2021 09:30

It's possible that they just put the policy on their contract to give them solid ground to kick problematic dogs out but will be prepared to keep your dog as long as he's not causing any hint of trouble.

Bigeggsinapackoften · 07/10/2021 09:34

My daycare won’t take entire male dogs past 6 months.

Can you get a Walker in the meantime?

Singalongsingsong · 07/10/2021 09:55

I provide home boarding and day care and under the terms of my licence I am not allowed to accept entire males over the age of 12 months. In order to retain my licence i have to adhere to this, with no exceptions. It is not about me being difficult.

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 07/10/2021 10:32

I haven't neutered my 2 yr old collie mix, as he does have a nervous disposition, so it was agreed in discussion with my vet & trainer.
However, it's not set in stone. He does tend to attract confrontational/aggressive behaviour from some other dogs, which he does then react to. So there's quite a bit of behaviour management that I have to do. But I'm fortunate in that I don't have to use daycare or anything yet, so it's just my responsibility.
I'd have a good discussion with the daycare owner, and perhaps even see if she can film him maybe at daycare, so you can see how he behaves in that surrounding and you can both monitor any changes as he ages?
But it's not completely about your dog unfortunately - if a 'confrontational' neutered male for example comes in, it could change the dynamic entirely without your dog being at fault.

MaryLennoxsScowl · 07/10/2021 10:48

The daycare mine went to before Covid technically didn’t allow intact dogs over 6 months old, and I didn’t want to get him done before a year to let him develop (was on fence about doing it at all), but the owner said she was happy to keep him as long as he showed no sign of aggression. By the time Covid hit he was 9 months and they’d had no problems. He didn’t go back because we’ve both been at home permanently since then, but about 12 months he started to show aggression to other dogs in the park including a fight with one, and he also went loopy for any bitch in season and we had to book him in for neutering for his own safety - he would have gone straight across a road if a bitch had been on the other side, and there are no fences round the local park. He’s a spaniel, and I agree with your view that your breed may mature a lot more slowly, but your hand may be forced by his own behaviour. So see if the daycare will work with you for now, but look out for alternatives too!

Original poster
JengaCupboard · 07/10/2021 11:03

This is all really good insight and i'm grateful for your experiences.

I guess i'm trying to establish whether I can expect 'adult' or otherwise 'unacceptable' (as far as day care is concerned) behaviour from him between 12 months of age, and a suitable age for neutering... which I am now firmly on the fence about (!!)... or whether he will remain juvenile in his behaviour for longer if not matured until 18 - 24 months. I don't suppose anyone has the answer really, and it will be down to him!!

He's generally very chilled in all scenarios although he is still young. For reference he is a Rottweiler, if anyone has had specific dealings?

OP posts:
Meloncurse · 07/10/2021 11:10

Has the daycare said something different to you as this looks fairly unambiguous.

The day care provider has expressed that her terms (which I knew before sending him) include no entire males over the age of 12 months

I don't think the behaviour of your boy is relevant, no entire males over 12 months means no entire males

Original poster
JengaCupboard · 07/10/2021 11:43

@Meloncurse they have said 'generally' no EM after 12 months, but alluded to this being behaviour lead, so suggesting some flexibility.

That being said I haven't asked further questions as yet (will be next week when he's back) as other PP have advised it may be a licensing requirement and as such not flexible at all.

I think i'm going to speak to the breeder and my vet, and be lead by them. If I have to make alternate provision for his day care a couple of days a week it's not the end of the world.

OP posts:
gardeninggirl68 · 07/10/2021 13:29

I'm hearing conflicting things

Our 2 yr old Labrador has now started showing aggression to bigger dogs. He's also loopy if he gets wind of a female on heat

Since 18 months he's been a bit of a handful. Im thinking of booking him in.

icedcoffees · 07/10/2021 15:22

If you have a dog of sound temperament then I personally wouldn't risk messing about with that. While some dogs don't seem to change at all post-neutering, some do and I know a few people (anecdotally, of course) who wish they'd not done it.

Could you have a go at chemical castration instead? It's an injection that lasts a few months (I forget how many) so you can see if neutering would change is behaviour before going ahead with it?

Zeropointzero · 07/10/2021 21:49

Please,please male dog owners get your dog castrated if you dont want him as a stud dog.unneutered dogs are a pest in the backside(excuse the pun).responsible dogowners of male and female pooches have their pet done as soon as possible.your boy or girl will be so much happier after neutering.The owner of the dog day care was 100% correct to refuse an unneutered dog.

XiCi · 08/10/2021 08:11

@Zeropointzero

Please,please male dog owners get your dog castrated if you dont want him as a stud dog.unneutered dogs are a pest in the backside(excuse the pun).responsible dogowners of male and female pooches have their pet done as soon as possible.your boy or girl will be so much happier after neutering.The owner of the dog day care was 100% correct to refuse an unneutered dog.
Vets do not recommend neutering for male dogs anymore. And absolutely not true that all dogs will be "so much happier" after castration.
ashmts · 08/10/2021 08:23

Are you sure it's about behaviour/aggression? Our daycare T&C's state no unneutered dogs after 6 months but it's to avoid any accidental litters. That felt too early for me so we discussed with the owner and as he didn't have any entire/mature males at the time we waited a few more months to spay. Speak to your daycare, there may be flexibility. If there isn't, you need to respect their policy unfortunately.