Help me fight my landlord (not literally)

[Doglover157]

I am desperate for a dog. Am a social housing tenant with a secure lifetime tenancy. Strictly no dogs allowed but somewhere in the pet policy it states something along the lines of “no dogs allowed without permission, evidence will need to be provided and will depend on an individuals circumstances” that’s my interpretation of it l, I can’t be bothered to find a direct quote. But nobody across any of their properties has ever been given permission. Obviously guide dogs and ‘registered assistance dogs allowed.

The registered assistance dogs appears to be a grey area as there is no official register for them. It’s more if they come from an accredited organisation.

Anyway, I have one child with SEN and one with emotional/safeguarding needs. I’ve provided letters from 3 different professionals, one about sen, one from a therapist, and one from a social worker all supporting my request for a dog. They are strong supporting letters. My landlord said no after the first letter, but I’ve since provided the other 2.

Does anyone know if I can fight this? And how?

The only thing you can do OP is ask what criteria or ask for examples of what individual circumstances may be.

'Individual circumstances' is very ambiguous and you might find yourself ( as you are) pissing in the wind with this.

Its sounds like they don't feel the evidence you have meets any criteria that they have to allow dogs.

@Doglover157

See my above comment :) I too live in a flat and small furry rodents are really the ideal pet.

Why not get a cat instead!

@Doglover157 video is called 13 ways rats are like mini dogs. Even though people don't like rats, I am sure they can't object as its a caged pet after all.

It didn’t even occur to me to post in legal, I might do that. Thanks

@Doglover157

One of the biggest benefits of a dog is the walks, we like being outdoors. This is where it’s benefit my ds the most. Plus cats, generally are quite aloof although I know some breeds are more friendly. Then there’s the debate of indoor cats..

Hopefully they’ll say yes, if they don’t I’ll give it one last fight then I’ll have to accept defeat.

Moving is definitely not an option. It could take years, if ever to find a suitable mutual exchange. I looked for 5 years previously and got nowhere.

It might be worth contacting local rescues. I know some near me are desperate for volunteers to take the dogs out for walks. You might find the same and get the benefit that way?

Alternatively the Cinnamon Trust or Borrow My Doggy?

You do know you can go for a walk without a dog, don't you?

@Tempusfudgeit The thought had occurred to me but it seemed too bizarre to follow through with

Are you a single parent, OP? The reason I ask is that puppies need to go out to toilet very, very frequently (at least every hour) at first, and many aren’t reliably toilet trained for weeks/months. Even then, they can easily do four or five bowel movements a day for some considerable time. If you had a garden, you’d be using it. As you haven’t, every single time you will have to take it downstairs, which presumably means bringing your children. How are you going to manage the logistics, including in the middle of the night?

A balcony is not the same as a garden! For one, a garden would pot boy have grass or soil to absorb urine. For two, even a small garden is bigger than a balcony, and further away from neighbouring properties so they are less likely to see and smell the waste.

Garden would probably have grass, that should say.

I wouldn’t have to take the kids down with me. The park is literally opposite my front door and it wouldn’t just be me having to manage it. My eldest is 16 so can be left indoors anyway.
I’ve looked into specific things for use on balconies and would commit to taking the dog down once it’s vaccinated.
I’ve spoken to lots of people that have had puppies in flats and none of them have had major problems. One took a long time to toilet train but I think that was the breed, and poor training.

Op, I would recommend you going via your councillor or MP, you can also ask for the criteria for them making a decision on animals, you could agree to a good neighbour agreement, commit to ensuring dog is insured, vaccinated.

What are the consequences of just getting a dog? They can’t just evict you, courts are delayed cos of Cv19, it’s not a mandatory consideration for courts (like rent arrears), you have a lifetime tenancy…

As someone said pet policy will be changing as there is no legal reason for refusing dogs in flats. And there are laws coming.

No reason for them to refuse when you have good evidence, I’ve known others to be accepted for less good reasons than you (basically a support pet for mental well being).
Appeal! Can you get support from pet organisation? Drugs trust, …

My colleague had two cockapoo puppies in her flat (with a balcony). It was bloody hard work and she had a partner and no kids, but it was still very hard! It's not impossible though, but I honestly think puppies' therapeutic qualities are overrated. They are incredibly stressful and like bitey toddlers with no nappies. They actually cause more stress and anxiety. And puppies can't be walked for long.

An older dog would fit what you want better or another less high-maintenance pet.

I second the above about getting an older dog - we have a puppy currently and although he is very cute, it is hell! He chews everything apart from the abundance of toys bought for him to play with, has to go into the back garden ecery 30 mins daytime and 2 hourly overnight to avoid accidents and he terrorises the kids with his razor sharp teeth. Absolutely not his fault, jlhe is just a baby and will(hopefully!) get better in time but right now irs really hard work. They are not allowed to use steps or jump up or down anything for 12 months or you damage their hips and joints and walking is only 5 mins per month of age, so at 6 months old we are only talking 30 min walks so will be ages before you can do those lovely long walks you want. An older dog will be toilet trained and ready to go for walks from the get go.

Also to add, the main reason my colleague could manage her two puppies in a flat above ground floor level was because her partner could take them to work with him (he's a personal trainer) as his clients loved the dogs, so they were out of the flat for most of the day. She was still complaining all the time about how hard it was!

I beleive they are introducing a new law to allow all renters to have pets were housing is appropriate
For example a garden for a dog and not a top floor flat etc

@SavannahRubyAlice

I beleive they are introducing a new law to allow all renters to have pets were housing is appropriate For example a garden for a dog and not a top floor flat etc

Even in private rented?

As a guide dog owner the fact that all and sundry seem to now claim that their dog is an assistance dog without any formal training is making things much harder for actual assistance dog owners who have already been struggling with access refusals in various places.

Seems anyone can now buy a puppy, claim they’ve trained it, and then demand legal access. And the problem with that is that very few of these dogs are actually trained and therefore establishments no longer believe that an assistance dog will be well behaved etc and as such they will refuse them.

As for landlords legally not being allowed to refuse, you are deluded if you think this doesn’t happen.

Most guide dog owners I know struggle immensely in getting housing because the landlords simply refuse to allow a guide dog. And while technically it’s the law, there really is no way to enforce it, so it’s pointless going down the route of legal challenge.

The only situation where you have legal recourse, and then only with a guide dog, is with taxi refusals. And even then they are commonplace and the penalties are rarely enough to discourage it.

And you say your son doesn’t yet have a diagnosis, therefore he is not registered as disabled and does not qualify under the equality act.

Please don’t take the piss here. Genuine assistance dog owners struggle enough as it is without someone using their son’s disability to get hold of a pet.

And bear in mind that they don’t have to give you permission to keep a dog before it qualifies as an assistance dog. I know of cafe’s etc who will refuse even guide dog puppies in training, and those are well known and well established, and legally they are perfectly allowed to do so.

So unless you can get an actual, qualified assistance dog you have no legal recourse to demand that you be allowed to get a puppy.

I wouldn't have a dog in a flat. You say there are lots of dogs in flats around you. I'd cast around to see if you can build up a relationship with one or two and walk their dogs for them with your children at a time that suits you all. And get a house rabbit if the tenancy allows.

It’s strange because everyone I know with a dog, lives in a flat.
Presumably they already had the dog when they moved in though? No reputable breeder or rescue organisation is going to let a dog go to a home with no garden, and stairs which are bad for their joints. So even if the landlord allowed it you'd have a job trying to get one.

@AlwaysLatte during the pandemic, there were all these new young couples who just moved in with their dogs. I live in a flat with a communal garden in zone 3 london. They were probably not moving from a house with a garden. my downstairs neighbour acquired a french pug during the first lockdown, he toilet trained it while living in the flat.

We are probably one of the rare blocks that allow dogs of all shapes and sizes even for renters. I think one of the freeholders (who owns a share in the freehold) has a dog, thats the reason. I once talked to her through the intercom and her dog kept barking.

OP have you had a dog from a puppy before? You mention loving dogs but not what direct experience you have to support this?

I ask because training a puppy in itself is tough, (I’ve always had dogs as pets) and I have no idea what additional training is necessary for a dog to be called an assistance dog?

Our dog is two now but when he was house training it really was out every 30mins or so, plus through the night too, I wouldn’t want to deal with that in an upstairs flat even though I know people do, it sounds like an awful lot of work especially when you have kids with SEN.

*@Motorina agree with what you have said, essentially what I’m asking for is permission for a pet. I’m just trying to find loopholes for if they say no because I’m desperate

It’s unrealistic to try and find loopholes, this is why their stance is a blanket no, especially when you do not have an official registered disabled status for anyone in your household.

I agree with everything @AlternativePerspective says, people trying to find loopholes is completely unfair to those people who have registered guide dogs but still struggle with access. It simply creates more issues for all those people which is incredibly unfair.

I’m convinced he’d leave the house to walk the dog. He needs a purpose for going out. Or someone to play with. He won’t go out just for the sake of going out
It really saddens me when people decide to get a dog to entertain their kids. Dogs are not toys. Dogs that are trained for a specific function is different. They have a specific role, and that is not to entertain but help with specific tasks.

My neighbour got a dog to entertain her kids. It of course did just that when it was a puppy, cute and fun. As it got older, less cute, with its own needs, it became much less of an attraction. The dog is never walk but once a week, if the weather is pleasant. It's left alone for hours as they get on with their lives, and it cries the entire time suffering from separation anxiety. It's now often told off. I don't doubt they love her, but she is not getting the attention it deserves and you can tell the dog is not really happy.

You are looking for a loophole and to get a dog to entertain your kids, and that's not a good reason. I waited 20 years to get a dog because I couldn't do so before due to living and working circumstances. It would have been selfish to get one otherwise, however much I wanted one.

Ii