Help me fight my landlord (not literally)

[Doglover157]

I am desperate for a dog. Am a social housing tenant with a secure lifetime tenancy. Strictly no dogs allowed but somewhere in the pet policy it states something along the lines of “no dogs allowed without permission, evidence will need to be provided and will depend on an individuals circumstances” that’s my interpretation of it l, I can’t be bothered to find a direct quote. But nobody across any of their properties has ever been given permission. Obviously guide dogs and ‘registered assistance dogs allowed.

The registered assistance dogs appears to be a grey area as there is no official register for them. It’s more if they come from an accredited organisation.

Anyway, I have one child with SEN and one with emotional/safeguarding needs. I’ve provided letters from 3 different professionals, one about sen, one from a therapist, and one from a social worker all supporting my request for a dog. They are strong supporting letters. My landlord said no after the first letter, but I’ve since provided the other 2.

Does anyone know if I can fight this? And how?

@Floralnomad I do t mean to sound rude. But I was asking for help on the legalities of my situation rather than discussions about the practicalities of dogs in flats or suggestions to move home. Moving home is just completely impractical and also virtually impossible.

Well you do come across as rude , and if the letters / emails to your landlord are written in the same style you’ve used here then that may be one of your problems . Also if you want legal help then perhaps you should have posted in that topic and not Doghouse .

I don't think there is a legal way to get your wish. Would it be possible for you and your family to contact a local dog charity to see if you could volunteer or perhaps be able to help walk the dogs?

@RogueRebel I have thought about all of that. My ds doesn’t actually have an asd diagnosis yet, but has another diagnosis. I’m convinced he’d leave the house to walk the dog. He needs a purpose for going out. Or someone to play with. He won’t go out just for the sake of going out.
I have looked into breeds in great detail. It’s really difficult but I think I’ve narrowed it down to the best fits and would definitely invest in training.
My oldest is 16 so could wait with youngest, or take dog out independently if needed.

@Floralnomad it’s just frustrating having to keep talking about things which have no bearing on my original questions.
Don’t worry, my emails are not rude and my supporting letters are fantastic.

You keep posting quotes about disability legislation but is anyone in your house actually registered disabled?
A SEN diagnosis doesn’t automatically afford you protection under disability legislation…

@Floralnomad

Well you do come across as rude , and if the letters / emails to your landlord are written in the same style you’ve used here then that may be one of your problems . Also if you want legal help then perhaps you should have posted in that topic and not Doghouse .

And a lack of knowledge of the needs of a puppy Toilet training takes months and then they need to go out many times a day. Puppy pads and using the balcony (I am sure your neighbours will love the smell of doggy diahorrea as they sit on theirs)

What about the barking? Some dogs are barkers. His will you manage that?

My child’s SEN falls under the definition of disability under the equality act. That’s why I mentioned it, as I thought we could ask for a reasonable adjustment under the equality act.

@MauveMagnolia I really don’t want this thread to be about this. Sorry. I’ve spent a year researching all of these things.

I think your blinkered outlook is going to be 90% of your issue

You can’t just bury your head in the sand about dogs in flats because it’s an inconvenient truth for you. You’re coming across as a bit of a brat, and far from the ‘dog lover’ you claim to be

Ultimately, life is a series of compromises
You’ve done very well to get a big HA flat in a good location, with the compromise that it means no pets

Maybe focus on what you have rather than trying to find legal loopholes to get your own way on something.

There are plenty of therapy dogs your DCs can spend time with if you think they will genuinely benefit from being around dogs, rather than just using their disability as a ticket to get your own way with your landlord

Ok

In your hypothetical scenario, you'd get a puppy (which isn't an assistance dog so is just a pet) and get it trained as an assistance dog and then it would pass the test. Say for arguments sake that your HA allowed that.

Unfortunately, you can't get a random puppy and make them into an assistance dog. Some dogs are great at it, others aren't. I have a dog from a breed that is renowned for being great with strangers, super jolly etc. My dog isn't. I don't know why, it's just not the way he's built. We love him anyway and it doesn't matter because he's not trying to be anything special but if he had been put forward for an assistance programme, he would have failed.

What would you do in that case? Give the dog away?

I really hope you haven't been talking to your children about getting a dog because that is really unfair on them considering it's pretty impossible unless you move.
.

[quote Doglover157]@RogueRebel I have thought about all of that. My ds doesn’t actually have an asd diagnosis yet, but has another diagnosis. I’m convinced he’d leave the house to walk the dog. He needs a purpose for going out. Or someone to play with. He won’t go out just for the sake of going out.
I have looked into breeds in great detail. It’s really difficult but I think I’ve narrowed it down to the best fits and would definitely invest in training.
My oldest is 16 so could wait with youngest, or take dog out independently if needed.[/quote]
ALL my kids were on board with walking the dog at first.
None of them do it now. Thankfully theyre a bit older and i can leave them to walk the dog and i also have a garden, but you are going to have a nightmare if you have to leave the kids at 11pm for the dog to go out to do final wee, and then of course they dont always sleep through the night for a while. Sometimes as well, you are ill, or the kids are ill, or you have to isolate etc and you cant go out.
Youve even said "why would it poo on the balcony instead of on its walks after the first couple of weeks"

have you ever had a puppy before?

I’ve got a therapy dog…
She didn’t just arrive as a puppy and grow into one though

I’ve had dogs, rescue and pups, for my whole life, so knew what I was looking for in the puppy when I chose her
I read books, did courses, worked with trainers to learn the fundamentals of what is needed to make a therapy dog

She was assessed, I had feedback, I did more training, repeat for years
Still at the age of 8, I spend time every week on her training. I can read her body language to see when she is bored, stressed, excited and we work accordingly

You seem to think you can just pick a pup of the right breed, train it to only pee and poo on walks and then you’ve got yourself an ‘assistance dog’

No. At best, you’ll have a half trained pet

Stop trying to abuse and bend rules written to help out disabled people by giving them genuine assistance dogs

You’re being a spoiled child stamping your foot not being allowed a fluffy toy, you’re not being a dog lover, nor are you trying to provide your DC with a genuine assistance dog

What about pet rats? They are very similar to dogs i.e. want to be with you all the time and are also good therapy animals. I don't know about council flats but in owner-occupied private flats, caged rodents wouldn't be an issue because they are in your flat all the time/no one sees them.

[quote Doglover157]@Crazycrazylady im not manufacturing reasons. I’m going on the supporting letters professionals have provided. They would not do it if they didn’t think it was beneficial. These are medical professionals and social workers that know my children and their needs.
But I agree, I don’t qualify for a trained assistance dog from a charity or such and would not apply for one as there are children that need them more.[/quote]
I think your last sentence is the issue in at nutshell.

Your children would clearly benefit emotionally and physically from a dog. I get that. However, they do not meet the criteria for needing one to manage their disabilities.

If they did, they would need a dog which, as defined by the Equality and Human Rights Commission, is "highly trained" to "support people with disabilities".

You're not talking about getting such a dog. You're talking about getting a puppy. Which might - if temperamentally suitable, and with dedicated training - eventually become an assistance dog.

So you're actually asking your landlord for permission to have a dog which isn't an assistance dog, to support a child who would be helped by but does not need one.

That's not a strong legal case.

On the subject of training, I compete with my dogs. I carefully select puppies with parents of known temperament who show potential for my sport. You would need to do similar. Such puppies are not cheap! They're also not a guarantee. Of my three carefully selected dogs, one is suitable for my sport, one isn't, and one is a puppy and is an unknow.

I also do a minimum of two training classes a week. I'm in rural nowhere, and I pay £40 per hour. Realistically your dog would need similar if not more training to reach your goal.

That's on top of all the normal dog bills - food, flea and worm, jabs, insurance, excesses on claims...

You're in social housing. Realistically, can you afford £3000 to buy a puppy, and then £500 a month for running expenses and training costs? Because that's what this is going to cost you.

Sorry to be so negative, but I'm struggling to see how this might work.

@Clymene it shouldn’t be impossible though. Because the policy says exceptions can be made based on an individuals circumstances.
When they talk about exceptions, that’s not referring to assistance dogs, as you don’t need permission for those anyway.
I asked for permission, they asked for evidence, I provided a letter from a therapist, but since then my ds has received a diagnosis and I’ve since had 2 really strong supporting letters which I’ve now sent off asking for a reconsideration to my original request.

But you’ve not given any evidence on how you’re going to get them an assistance dog

You’re talking about getting a pet. Which is not allowed

If you want an exception made for an assistance dog, how are you going to get one?

You’ve said you don’t meet the criteria for getting one from a charity, and you’ve made it pretty obvious you won’t be able to train one yourself

So how are you going to show the landlord you need an assistance dog, rather than you just want a pet?

@Motorina I agree with what you have said, essentially what I’m asking for is permission for a pet. I’m just trying to find loopholes for if they say no because I’m desperate.

I know I can’t guarantee a person temperament, I’m prepared for that but understand what it might mean regarding an assistance dog. But, I don’t need the dog to be able to perform specific dogs like a guide dog would.

I can definitely afford it, that was one of the very early considerations.

I don’t know how people are saying I’m not a dog lover? Based on a few sentences on the Internet. I’ve honestly done so much thinking and research and I know myself, dog and children would be happy. I don’t expect it to be easy, I expect to adapt and make it work.

Are you saying it'll be an assistance dog just by its very nature of being a pet, as opposed to being trained to perform specific functions?

@FazedNotPhased not really. I was hoping to get a pet, and if necessary go through a training programme to enable it to help my ds and be classed as an assistance dog, but yes technically I’m looking for a loophole.
In an ideal world, my landlord would accept my reasons and professional evidence, give me permission and I’d go from there.

@Sparechange I wouldn’t need to ask for permission for an assistance dogs. They are allowed. I’m asking for an exception to be made based on my individual circumstances like it says in their policy. I’m just preparing myself for if they say no and whether I could go down the assistance dog route and if id stand a chance.

@Doglover157 - gotcha. That clarifies things nicely.

I think it sounds like you're dependent on their good-will. If they say no, your choices are to accept that or to move. I understand there are huge downsides to the latter, but that may mean a dog is not an option, sadly.

Would another pet - I'm thinking an indoor cat? - meet some of the same emotional needs. I understand you would still need permission, but it's easier to be discrete about a cat than a puppy!

One of the biggest benefits of a dog is the walks, we like being outdoors. This is where it’s benefit my ds the most. Plus cats, generally are quite aloof although I know some breeds are more friendly. Then there’s the debate of indoor cats..

Hopefully they’ll say yes, if they don’t I’ll give it one last fight then I’ll have to accept defeat.

Moving is definitely not an option. It could take years, if ever to find a suitable mutual exchange. I looked for 5 years previously and got nowhere.

You have asked for help in getting round the HA's wording but you 'couldn't be bothered' to find a direct quote.

Maybe you should and then repost in legal? I don't think anyone in the doghouse can help you get round the rules to be honest.

If they say no after your letters, what's your fallback position?