At what point do we accept it's not working?

[Ilookedatthesea]

Ddog is 8 months old. He's a cocker spaniel. It was a very, very long considered purchase 10+ years in the planning and we have always been around dogs although he's our first as a couple. Although we got him in lockdown he's very much not a "lockdown puppy" impulse purchase - just happened to be when the litter was born. We've done puppy classes for 6 months. Not helping.

Here's the problems:-

• He's huge. Twice the size of any cocker spaniel we know (and we know lots). We met mum and dad but he's far, far bigger than them and we wonder now if we were told the truth (despite doing as much research as I think we could). He's much bigger and stronger than we expected and I'm struggling to hold him on walks. He's much bigger even than a springer and is closer to a labrador in size.
• despite being walked at least twice a day, usually 3 times and covering a good 5+ miles, he's relentless. He's not left alone apart from going to shops/school run etc and has company all day but is still so destructive. He's destroyed the house and the garden. He's not left unattended to do these things but we'll give him a kong/chew, turn our backs for a moment and he'll take his chance.
• Neither of us have any bond with him. I don't know why this is, we wanted him so much but neither of us feel any bond at all.
• his sleep is horrific. He's up now at 1am having woken at 12 howling. We've in a semi so can't leave him to howl because of the neighbours. Despite being up in the night, he'll be up at 5am for the day. We haven't had 8 hours sleep in 6 months.

I think we could cope with his behaviour if we loved him but it's becoming increasingly clear that we don't and we don't have the bond other people do and it's not coming.

At what point do we accept we aren't a good fit together? I feel horrendous even saying it- I would have judged others in our position so much but we are at our whits end and it's hugely affecting our mental and physical health and I'm not sure how much longer we can go on like this.

And it could happen to any of us.

No it couldn’t. 🤷🏻‍♀️

My cousin has a large male springer and he was badly behaved for a long time until at least 9 months. They persisted with the trainer and he is a really well behaved dog now. I think they said they eventually let him sleep in their room in a dog bed and he was better at night then.

Thank you @BarkingUpTheWrongRoseBush

You didn't answer how long you worked with the 1:1 trainer - I assume not long as it wasn't mentioned in OP. And what their feedback was?

Am I the only one who wants to see a photo of this giant cocker Spaniel?

You've had lots of practical advice which will hopefully help. I just wanted to share my experience of not bonding with our puppy. He was a nightmare the first 12 months, in different ways to your pup but it still made connecting with him difficult. I really didn't even like him for the first year and could only see the ways he'd changed our lives for the worse. Very gradually things improved. His behaviour improved (and not because of the training or behaviourists advice but just because he matured and calmed down) and with that a bond slowly started to develop. He's coming up for 2 now and he's a completely different dog to the one we were struggling with a year ago. We all love him

All those lovely dogs you see when you're out ans about, they've taken time and patience to get there. Just give it time, he will naturally calm down.

We have a big cocker too (over 15kg at 8 months). I struggled to love him when he wasn't sleeping so I feel for you! Is there anything outside that could be setting him off at night? AwkwardPup still barks his head off if he hears foxes we have to keep windows closed at night due to that.

Puzzle toys like the Nina Ottosson ones, he has most meals out of one of those, are helpful - he could run for hours so I find I need to exercise his mind to tire him out.
Varied sniffy walks off lead or on a longline - on-lead walks bore him & he'll make his own fun(!).
The Facebook group Dog Training Advice and Support has been invaluable - especially their puppy group.

Hi op you have received some good advice here. Just a practical note on the destructive behaviour. I’ve found the metal pens to be a life saver. You can open them right out to use the individual panels and rest them up against things he wants to chew, (sofa, shelves etc.). Or buy 2 or 3 and make a really huge pen for him if you have the space. They are expensive, but worth in the long run it if it saves your furniture! And it won’t clutter up your house for long, just long enough to break the habit and then you can slowly take them away. It worked for us!

He sounds like he's bored. From what I understand, jsut physically exercising active intelligent working-type dogs isn't enough to tire them out - they need mental stimulation too.

We have a 'Brain Games for Dogs' book that has loads of great suggestions, including games that involve lots of interaction with you and promote bonding. The same author also has a Brain Games for Puppies book.

Check out the Facebook page 'Canine Enrichment' also. Maybe look into scent training too.

I've read that half an hour 'brain training' is equivalent to a two-hour walk.

Hi op you've had some great advice. Definitely get proper 1-1 training and know they will be training you, not the dog!

It's so tempting to do lots of walks to tire them out. But it's the wrong thing to do - it just makes them fitter. And a fit cocker is untireoutable.

Brain games. Stop feeding from a bowl and scatter the food all over the garden is a great one to keep them occupied for half an hour.

Where are you based? I might be able to recommend some people. 8 months is teenage and mist dogs go through a pain in the arse phase.

Once you get on top of the unhelpful behaviour- and with a good trainer you absolutely will - you'll be able to enjoy and bond with the dog.

OP dont beat yourself up. It’s easy for people to judge. I have a 1 yr old puppy who is very hard work, but the difference is I’ve felt a bond with him from early on and that’s what has saved us. He is bigger than the average lab and is very strong but at 14 months he is starting to calm down.
While it’s tempting to suggest you stick it out it really doesn’t sound as though you want to it your heart is in it so it may well for the best to rehome him.

Perhaps the sleeping thing is he doesn’t like his sleeping arrangements , from your posts I assume he is caged overnight , maybe you should try taking him to bed for a cuddle , it may improve his sleep and your bond with him .

Maybe he knows you don't like him.

@SupermanInk You can't say it couldn't happen to anyone; there isn't an automatic bond with every dog/animal one comes across, that's just ridiculous.

I've got 2 spaniels (working cocker and sprocker) and they're not for the faint hearted. It's a lifelong commitment of training, training and more training as the moment that they can take an inch, they'll take a mile. They're very clever working dogs, and make terrible pets if not mentally and physically stimulated. Both of mine were little bastards until 2......... and it was exhausting but so rewarding as they're both the best dogs in the world.

If you do rehome, please go to Spaniel Assist (Dawn Clough is a legend in her own right) or Spaniel Aid, he needs to go to a suitable environment to thrive in. www.spanielassist.com/

@PandemicPalava

Does he have somewhere quiet to go and settle? I'm wondering if he is over stimulated with that many walks, access all areas and so much play

This ^^ At 8 months old he shouldn’t be walked for more that 40 minutes twice a day (5 minutes for each month of age), he’s being very overstimulated poor thing! Puppies are hard work and unless you’re prepared to put in the effort then you won’t build that wonderful relationship you can have with a dog.

Oh god I can hear and practically feel your frustration. We have a Dalmatian, just 2 now, and we've had so many issues. Different ones to yours but issues nonetheless, and at times I have wondered what the hell possessed us

One thing @BiteyShark said really struck a cord with me, about fixing some things and others feeling better. Over time we've "fixed" a large amount of his food stealing, now understand and manage his allergies, have places for him to settle and be calm and allow him to have that space, and it's all added up to a much happier easier to manage dog. He still pulls like a demon on lead and has selective recall, but knowing we've fixed the other stuff means working on that big stuff feels more like something we're doing together rather than another horrendous issue.

Be kind to yourself. The puppy days (and especially the teen days) are hard.

In chewing, ours is a chewer for fun. He has lots of bone and antler type chews and gets the odd deer leg. He likes them and we always praised him highly for chewing them. Now he chews those and not my shoes!

I agree with Biteyshark 1 to 1 training is great for developing a closer bond, and helping sort out problems. We had always had dogs but it had been a while since our last pup. I can't believe how much I learned at 1 to 1 training on how helpful it was.

Another vote for 1 to 1 training or even maybe a behaviourist.

My whippet was a bit of a nightmare as a puppy and teenager. Multiple trainers told me he was not an ‘average’ dog and agreed he was very hard work. Now he’s four and I wouldn’t swap him for another dog in a million years. I had to learn to love him for the dog he is though, not the dog I wanted him to be. Poor boy was being set up for failure.

I'm going to say this.

For us the cut off was roughly 2yrs old.. we tried everything. We loved our dog to death, but she was making our older dog miserable, was untrainable (Despite trainers being involved) and destructive.

We made the choice to rehome. Don't let the zealots on here make you feel like it isn't an option.. at the end of the day, if you're not happy, and the dog isn't happy, its better to rehome for both of you.

Can you and your DP arrange a night away each, separately, very soon, so you each get a chance for a proper night’s sleep? use a local travelodge type hotel! It’s horrendous trying to tackle stuff like this when you haven’t slept for so long and it probably makes you resent the dog.

Ours went through a phase of waking at 1am and 2am and 4am every night for a week at a time and by the third night I would pretty much be in tears having to deal with it (also have neighbours and could not leave to bark and DH was working away so just me dealing with it - it nearly broke me).

You’ve had lots of good advice and I’m not sure if I have anything helpful to add, but just wanted to let you know my experience.

We got ddog1 at 8 weeks old. Looking back it was absolutely not the right time to get a dog, we had a new baby and were renting, but DH was so very keen and I gave in. Ddog was really, really hard work. She wasn’t a spaniel, but another very high maintenance working breed. She was such hard work, destructive, awful walking on the lead, demanding, really, really hard to house train and I felt like we’d made a massive mistake. DH loved her luckily and he had experience with the breed, but I would have cheerfully rehomed her.

She continued be to a giant pain until she was about 2.5, but she gradually settled down and became a lovely dog. I’m so glad we stuck it out and kept her and in the end I loved her dearly. We lost her a couple of years ago and it broke all our hearts.

We now have another dog of the same breed. I now know that it was me and not her that was the problem. I didn’t have the experience, time or head space due to having a young baby, to deal with a high needs puppy. Our 16 month old pup can be an arse, but now my kids are teens I have more of myself to give to her, she’s settled much quicker and is my best friend.

So given a little time and patience he may settle and become a lovely dog. But the worst behaved dog I’ve ever met was a cocker. He was 8+ when I knew him and he was an absolute nightmare! He almost had to be seen to be believed! Most aren’t like that into adulthood though.

Snap @BiteyShark ours always had terrible sleep, barely napped even as a puppy! Our trainer & vet didn't believe me until I did a deep diary of it like a baby tracking thing.

@Ilookedatthesea lack of sleep sucks and makes everything worse. You've had good advice so I won't repeat it but honestly until our pup was almost 3 years DH and I had monthly chats about rehoming, one of us was always against at that moment but if we'd ever been aligned we would have rehomed. Now our dog is now more "settled" but still a pain in the arse for most things, we have terrible walks due to reactivity plus usual jumping over excitement in the house but we've come to accept that's who they are and they've changed so much already. I can already see the grumpy old dog they'll be in the next 2-4 years.

But I found something to help me build my bond with our dog for us that was doing agility training, we'll never compete but it's fun! DH likes teaching tricks. Find something you think is fun to do with your dog.