Puppy Survival Thread - June/July

[MrsHerculePoirot]

Discussion of all things puppy...

Old thread here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_doghouse/4234193-puppy-survival-thread-may?msgid=108567452

@Aria20 She was 8 months and hadn't had a season. It's all very controversial, I researched as much as I could but the evidence either way is scarce so I followed our vet's advice which was just to do it before she had a season. There's a paper people share often on MN that suggests you should wait till 24 months for spaniels due to (IIRC) potential incontinence in older age, and I think there may have been joint concerns too. But I dug into the numbers and it's based on a tiny number of dogs. For us the definite benefit of no accidental pregnancy, no risk of pyometra, not having to miss daycare when she was in season, not having to reduce and moderate her walks during a season etc, all outweighed those theoretical risks. We also have a male spaniel pup next door so that cemented our decision as it's just too risky to have two unneutered pups in such close quarters. Sounds like you might be in a similar situation so I'd be leaning towards doing it around a similar age, but you should speak to your vet.

She just had the standard spay and recovery was absolutely fine. Dozy for a day, slept in her crate when we got her home and even day 2 was a bit sleepy. Day 3 onwards she was her normal self and the only challenge was stopping her overexerting herself

Our little girl has been here since about 12 o’clock! She’s settling in well, lots of playing and sleeping although she’s only been for a wee once outside and one accident inside but nothing else! No poo yet 🙈 she’s absolutely gorgeous but still not 100% sure if the name we chose suits her…

Tiz, I wouldn't worry about the eating. I think mine are nearly nothing for the first three or four days and I was stressing massively. He still put 1.5kg on in 1.5 weeks. He's really only just found his appetite at 11 weeks.

@ashmts thank you for that. It is a minefield and the advice is so conflicting. We don't have daycare or dog Walker issues to consider at least with seasons just obviously would have to not visit my parents with her during season. Sounds like your girl recovered well though so that's good, did you find any change in her personality?

@tizwozliz gorgeous and @Jloco so cute and fluffy, what name did you go for and what breed?

I am also wondering about spaying early even just to avoid the teenage phase! Often after their first season personality can change and I want her to stay as she is!

I washed all the cushions and bedding that she uses today, to get rid of any wet dog smell. And I plan to only keep cushions which are machine washable. But when I brought her bed cushion in from drying she immediately did a wee on it ! Grrr… not sure what to do about that! I used biological washing powder which I think is the recommended. Anyway - it’s back in washing machine now. What’s the bets she does a wee on it again as soo. As it comes out

@Turquoisesol lol mine did an excited wee in her bed when my dad came round the other day and I was like grrr now I've got to wash it! Yesterday I also washed all her bedding before bathing her last night so all fresh here at mo.

I'm wondering if teenage kicking in here already anyway as our trainer said from 21 weeks and we are 20 weeks now... I didn't know if spaying avoided that?

@tizwozliz she’s lovely. My DH did 2 weeks on sofa in same room as the crate then came back upstairs to bed and just got up at 3am for a wee then put her back until 6am, then by 4wks she was sleeping 10pm -5am and gradually that stretched out to 5.30-6am. Now she’s 9.30pm-6.30am in her crate not fussed rarely asks to get up earlier.

Ref the Spayed question we waited for first season at 9mths then had her done at 12mths as the vet wanted her mid-second cycle. She had day at vets, but groggy at home for a day then was back to normal just on reduced walks. No dressing or cone all the stitches were inside very cleverly done minimal scaring I was really impressed. She’s a working lab x cocker spaniel so high energy but likes playing games so we could wear her out that way instead of long walks. The only thing she did do over the next two weeks was “nest”. She tried to make beds in strange places, carried around a doll like toy everywhere like it was her baby. It was odd & endearing I felt quite sad we had taken away her chance to be a mum just watching her behaviour. But she soon bounced back to her usual self within a couple of weeks.

Well I don’t really know if spaying does avoid teenagehood. But I have heard that if you spay early they dont mature mentally and remain puppy like. People quote this as a down side but I wonder if also could be a positive too ?

@Biking0077 ahhh bless her. Did she change at all personality wise after the spay other than mothering? Also what was the season like and how long did it last? Did you guess by her behaviour she had started season or was it just the blood that gave it away? Did you still walk her?

@Aria20 No change in her personality at all, she's still daft as a brush. The scar wasn't very nice but her fur has grown back now so it's fine.

@tizwozliz we have a lab and thought exactly the same as you - after a few weeks he was very happy to eat well!

[quote Aria20]**@tizwozliz* gorgeous and @Jloco* so cute and fluffy, what name did you go for and what breed?[/quote]
She’s a shih tzu poodle cross (from a friend’s dog). We originally chose Daisy ☺️

Still only two wees today! Not sure if I should worry.

@Jloco Daisy is adorable also Maisie!

Billy surprised us this morning by sleeping til 9:45 😵 as much as I enjoyed the kid in I’m concerned that surely his bladder should not last that long! I’m worried that he isn’t drinking enough, I already have a child that could go a full day without drinking if not constantly reminded, I can’t cope with a dog that’s the same! 😂

@LadyCatStark maybe it’s a lab thing? PoirotPup is the same - never had an accident in the house and happily goes hours between wees! Ive been joking he is related to us as my mums side of the family, me and the kids all have bladders of steel!

@tizwozliz gorgeous pup! We have a lab who sleeps in a crate in our room at the moment. He is quiet restless like yours and has the same sort of pattern of wee at 2isham and then sleep until 6am. Though to be honest we kind of enforce the wee break - as I panic and take him out if I hear rustles. Sometimes he doesn't even want out of the crate.

Hearing about @LadyCatStark 's Billy and @MrsHerculePoirot 's Poriotpup, I am wondering if we shouldn't take him out for a wee until he whines/asks for it and see if he will do the whole night (12am-6am) at 9 weeks. In the day it is easier as he would whine/bark or sniff the floor and we would take him out.

Not sure what you do LadyCatStark , MrsHercules and others but any advice gratefully received! (Aka leave until whining or took him out just in case)

P.S. I am hoping for the bladder of steel of periotpup and 9.45am lay in of Billy at some point! That is the dream

Daisy is beautiful @Jloco - sounds like she is settling nicely Hope the first night went well

The first night went well; she went to sleep about half 12 and slept to 5.45 when she went to the toilet and then slept until about 10! I think the first day home exhausted her. She doesn’t like her crate though so I’m trying to take it slowly with that but a few people said I should just lock her in it…We’ve had a few accidents today which are my fault really. Need to get better at that!

@Aria20 to answer your Qs, yes we definitely knew she was in season all her back end swelled was visible and blood spots on floor. We walked at odd times always on lead in quiet places to avoid other dogs reduced her walk time as well for 2 weeks. Post 2wks after she was spayed she was back to normal personality no real changes bit of usual teenage mischief but everyday she settles down into a calmer loveliest family dog still get zoomies on occasion but a bit of focused training is enough to halt them normally as she’ll do anything for kibble play.

We go to a socialising class now once a week which she has benefitted from as it’s 4 other dogs they all get to play off lead, then they take it turns to do focused training while the other dogs watch. We realised we hadn’t done enough learn to settle training when she was younger especially as we are a family on the go but she needs to learn that as well. The lack of going out to busy public spaces whilst in lockdown had impacted her more than we realised so we are back to going to places again for short periods of time like cafes, pub, school run again. Even though we did it all when she was a young puppy there was that bit at 8-12mths when we stopped going out much & did quiet off lead walks more so her recall is good but in noisy busy places she’s less calm. It’s hard work covering all the bases

@MorningInspiration we slept next to PoirotPup so didn’t ever wake him for a wee. Waited for him to wake up and come out of crate and then we’d take him out. Now he doesn’t sleep in his crate and just moves about all night around his bed/sofa/armchair/floor - even when we come down and let him out now he mooches about a bit before actually weeing!

So lovely to hear about all the new pups and progress in the slightly older ones. It does make you realise the progress you have made and how quickly they come on, although some challenges are replaced by others! Challenge pup is a bit over 10 months now and is continuing to develop. Despite some adolescent behaviours and an ongoing urge to destroy everything I am enjoying him so much now. He's a lovely happy affectionate boy, and one thing I think has helped has been that I have relaxed quite a bit with him. I think I probably was over stimulating him a bit - so if he seems relaxed and calm I don't always take him for a second walk, if he's playing on his own or noddling around in the garden I just leave him be and he is calmer and settling better as a result. I've tried to proof the house as best I can to stop him damaging anything valuable but I'm still learning just to leave him alone sometimes and he is learning to amuse and settle himself without trashing the house!

We still do a lot of play and training and there is ongoing work to be done but to those in the thick of the crazy hard work early months I'd say hang on in there and don't go crazy beating yourself or your pup up about it. Everyone on here is trying so hard and your pups have already won the lottery of loving homes and caring owners . And they are all super cute!

Well done @Jloco and her pup! The crate does take time. We only feed pup in the crate and hide some higher value treats or kibble in there randomly. Now after a week he hides his toys in there and sleeps in his upstairs crate very well (apart from restlessness). Rome wasn't built in a day and he may never take to a crate and that is fine too. Maybe a play pen attached to the crate if you have the space? Then you can give them nap time (morningpup HATES naps and rather be playing) - then it's his choice to sleep on floor or crate but still a safe, restricted space.

@MrsHerculePoirot thank you so much for your advice/experience! Sounds like he gives you a good cue for needing a wee and I should trust mine more. I will get the courage to do the same (I am an overthinker).

@familychallenge what a lovely post! Definitely true - sometimes we are so focused on the future that you can forget how far we have come. Challenge pup sounds like he has come into his element and I am sure he loves being a part of your family. Also thank you for your encouragement about it getting better and better, I had major puppy blues day 1 and 2 and was so anxious I sobbed/didn't eat (my partner was great and took the lions share). I am now so much better and love morning pup so much. Honestly reading all your stories gives me hope too

and hide some higher value treats or kibble in there randomly.

We're attempting this, but currently it means she just pays a visit to her crate every now and again to see if there's anything interesting in there then goes back out to sleep in the kitchen.

She naps great though, even if she's not using her crate. She needs some help to calm down sometimes if she's got over excited and overtired but generally is taking herself off to nap 4 or 5 times a day. Currently out for the count after having a playdate with a 5 month old lab.

@MorningInspiration lol have had lots of chats on here with others about overthinking! And the fact that sometimes it is like competitive parenting! But I have found the joy I get from him has increased substantially over the months- he and I are a long way from perfect but a lot of it is good enough! And we have to enjoy the good bits rather than just being tough on ourselves about the bad bits. The bond growing is also a beautiful thing- I didn't feel that so much when he was really little and so dependent, but now when he's close to me it's because he chooses to be, and that's just a lovely feeling!

@MorningInspiration thank you so much! That is really reassuring. That’s pretty much the approach we’re taking with having her food and water and some treats in there and she happily goes in for those. Just had some well meaning (“old school”) relatives saying I should just let her cry it out and I start to second guess myself despite all of the reading and research I’ve done. Thank you so much for your help!

@familychallenge that’s a lovely post, it’s great to hear your experience, thank you. I love her so much but felt quite fed up this afternoon after yet another accident and her second round of zoomies. I’ve watched so many YouTube videos of people who can teach all sorts on the first day and I feel like at the moment I’m just keeping her fed and watered and somewhat entertained but nothing beyond that. Convinced myself she’s going to grow up to be naughty 🙈 I definitely need to relax and enjoy her more.

This is such a lovely, supportive thread - thank you so much again everyone.