12 week puppy doesn’t like being left in crate

[MumsGoneToIceland]

First time puppy owner and would like advice on how to get to the point where he is happy in his crate so we can leave the room/plan to go out .

At nighttime he goes in crate fine at 9.30/10 ( can’t get him to stay awake later than that or if occasionally we do then he doesn’t sleep in any later). Wakes at around 5/5.30, take out for a wee and then put back in crate till 6 but usually cries until we get up at 6. (Have an alarm to go off at 6 near him to tell him it’s up time but not making a difference atm).. Once I get him up at 6, will then end up sleeping on me for an hour so is not as if he’s ready to start the day just wants company.

During the day, have been trying to get him used to being alone in crate and had got to about 15/20 mins with him staying quiet ( left him about 7 am to go upstairs and get ready/kids up, once or twice a day to have meetings in another room and went out for a lunchtime walk for about the same length of time each day and came back to quiet) . Now he’s crying pretty much all the time he’s left.

I know some people go straight back to work with a puppy where they could be left for a couple of hours and am starting. to feel like i can’t see a point where we could pop to town for a couple of hours etc and wonder if us being around so much has been a bad thing.

So have we made a mistake by not leaving him enough in the early days . Do we leave him to cry and if not how do we do this?

I have taken a step back in training and gone to trying to put him in his crate at random times whilst working in the same room, giving a treat for sitting with door shut and then ignoring him (working with my back to him), then giving him a treat for sitting quiet afte4 x mins , then turn back to working and leaving it longer but can’t get to more than 2 mins before he cries and am sat right by him with my back to him. Was hoping to get to 10 min gaps between treats and praise and then to start doing similar but leaving the room.

We’ve left the radio on, left him with a yak milk chew treat he loves but still cries.

Have we done things all wrong and is there a way to undo it? Starting to feel restricted and don’t want to start feeling resentful.

Thank you!

I think you need to work on leaving the puppy alone in the house during day rather than locked in a crate. A crate over night is acceptable but to then lock the dog in one during the day isn't, dogs only sleep lightly during day and for short periods and in between wonder about.

Get a camera set up and puppy proof you kitchen and leave dog for 5 minutes and go upstairs and just work up from that. You can't lock the dog in a cage during the day that's not fair.

Should of said I have a 5 nearly 6 month Staffordshire bull terrier he sleeps in crate at night but during day has the wonder of the kitchen / conservatory and he wonders about, chews toys and naps , I use a camera to keep a eye on him. He is left for up to 3 hours quite happily but I worked up to it.

I've had dogs my whole life and crates are a very new thing. I've never once crated a dog and got by just fine with good old fashioned training. Poor bloody dogs.

^^ this

You need to go out for very very short periods then go back. It's a slow process and you have to build up their confidence that you will be back.
He's still a baby
I'm not a crate person. I think they are used wrongly too often sadly.

@CatsForLife if your dogs are getting into ‘near fatal trouble within minutes’ if you leave them, I really do think something is seriously wrong.

I don’t crate either, mainly because mine are too large but I can’t imagine it’s nice to be stuck somewhere that’s too hot/cold/confined and not be able to move to somewhere else in the room or even another room if you want too.
My dogs sleep allover the place, sometimes on the stone tiles and sometimes curled up next to radiators depending on how they feel on that day. I really think it’s important to give an animal who’s inside a home for 20 odd hours a day the freedom to move around as much as possible. I would not crate overnight and then again during the day as I think it’s far too much. When I got each dog I accepted bits of my house would probably get damaged in the training process but in fairness it’s been very minimal for each dog!

When training I give them something nice to do, a puzzle, lickimat or frozen kong would do the trick and then I flit around the house being as boring as possible and don’t interact with them at all. Eventually they learn it’s much more fun to sit and do the activity provided rather than follow me around rooms. Sometimes I shut the doors and sometimes I don’t, usually only for a second or two at first until they get bored of wondering what I am doing. At no point do I wait until they are distressed but I would just open the door and walk past ignoring them and not acknowledging the behaviour if possible, I want it to be a non event. I’ve found the key is they have the choice to follow me but actually I’ve found they all have made the decision that it’s too much hassle and given up (all except my most needy one but even she will only follow me to the landing occasionally )
Once they are happy with me moving around the home I then would progress to going outside, maybe to the end of the drive and back and repeat the process until they are again as bored as possible by my comings and going’s.
I would repeat the same process if I wanted to leave them in the kitchen for example. Kitchen would be full of great things and I would pop in an out until they were comfortable and gradually build up the time they were left until they were able to cope while I went out and go from there.

Half the time mine don’t even look up when I leave now

Our pup would sleep in his crate overnight with the door closed. During the day he would be quite happy to go inside to sit, lay down, chew toys etc., but only with the door open - if he got any hint that we were going to close the door he would get up and leave the crate.
We addressed this by (1) mixing it up and making sure we sometimes just have him praise for being inside but without closing him in (2) sometimes close the door, give a treat, then open again, (3) slowly increase the amount of time with door closed - first stay in the room, then next time spend a few minutes in the room next door, then next time try going upstairs, (4) don’t return while he is whining - difficult at first but you only need to wait for a tiny pause in his whining before going into the room to let him out.
We also give his food inside his crate, again reinforcing that it is a positive place to be.

Hope this helps

My apologies LadyCatStark, you only shared and agreed with CatsForLife at 11.19, on Sunday 20th June. So my post should have been addressed to both you and CatsForLife. However, I do feel a little inclined to take issue with you for accusing me, and others for our anger, when you have shown every sign of being very angry yourself throughout this thread. As it happens I have not been angry at all at this thread, but I was very said when I first read the OP's original post, which was when I responded to her, before she subsequently clarified her op, with her later posts.
I was actually quite amused by your and CatsForLife response to my post, but again rather sad that you seemed to think how the puppy was feeling, was inconsequential. By the way, I do know that my posts are far too long and will also apologise (again) for that, but unfortunately after about 50 years of trying to, I just cannot summarise my thoughts into reasonable and digestable size pieces. But this inadequacy (probably too mild a word to describe it really, but I have been awake for about 21 hours now, and my mind is protesting at me far too much for me to make a better effort with my choice of words) does not happen because I am angry, oh no, I can be extremely happy, bored stiff, or 6 minutes away from the World being nuked, and I still couldn't think more precisely!

@21Flora OH, I must have the only puppy in the world that could potentially chew through wires or chew something they could choke on . The people on here are something else. Poor OP. OP - if you are still here there’s been some (occasional between the judgements) good advice. Ignore the haters. And some haven't read the full thread. We are not talking about leaving a dog for long periods in a cage during the day. We are talking about short periods with a pup when you need to go out. All dogs are different, just like kids, and we don’t all treat them the same. Some dogs chew more, some bark more, some eat more, some sleep more, some sleep on sofa, some of floor etc etc. There isn’t one size that fits all and the way you do it that is right. I’ve had dogs with very different needs. I’ve never needed to use a crate for a dog. But for a pup to go out for an hour or two to keep them safe while they sleep or have a Kong... yes.

Focus on your wins, a puppy that sleeps through the night at 12 weeks is amazing, ours was quite a bit older than that before he slept through.

Our dog has a crate, as a puppy his crate was inside a play pen so when my son wanted to play with small toys like lego etc they were completely seperate to the puppy but the puppy still had plenty room, toys etc and if you wanted you could get in the pen with him.

He has never napped in his crate in the day, but if he has a high value treat he goes in there to eat, he does sleep in it at night, but he wakes up around 5:30am and spends the rest of the night with us.

If he gets locked in his crate he screams (shiba inu), just as he screams if he gets locked in a room on his own.

Honestly my experience was my dog didnt take to crate training. We tried and tried.
It was stressful and upsetting for everyone involved - especially as my husband was very keen to persist. Eventually we had a heated chat and I said enough was enough and we were going to experiment with other solutions as she was distressed and it was not okay. I wanted a happt, confident securely attached dog and crate training was not delivering that. at all.
Our girl now has her main bed in the hall and use of sofa and 2 day beds in the dining room and study. She is so so much happier. No destructive behaviour no bad behaviour. When we pop out she has free reign of the downstairs and up to the 4th step on the stair but loves to snuggle on the sofa.

I get that you want crate training to work but a. Its not been long and 1-2 hours alone is too long for a young pup and b. it's not the only solution. You may want to look at beds and larger pens and building trust with your pup in communal areas.

I think crappyfridays and springerslovesofas posts are good/useful.

@HeartvsBrain here you go again with your massive rants and ridiculous assumptions. So because I said people are very angry (which you come across as in your threads even if you’re not) lately on MN, I don’t care about the puppy’s feelings despite being one of the few people that actual tried to offer advice rather than just tearing the OP to shreds? That’s 2 apologies you’ve had to offer already for jumping to conclusions on this thread, so maybe just stop now. I won’t be engaging any further with you as it’s not fair that you’re filling up @MumsGoneToIceland’s thread with these huge rants when all she wants is some advice to make her and her puppy’s life a little easier.

What @LadyCatStark said

Crates should be open at all times.

There are just some very angry snd rude people on the thread Heart, just ignore it.

This thread has taken a bit of a weird turn

If cage doors are meant to be left open what is the point of them? Surely a nice warm dog bed is the same thing? A safe space to sleep in.

We have 3 dogs. They are 14, 9 and 7 so getting on a bit. Never been shut in a cage and the JRTs have free run of the house and the black lab free run of downstairs. They sleep all day and can be left for long periods nowadays but they have each other as well as us all popping in and out of home all day. It's all about training.

I am horrified by cage use tbh. Can you not have your pup sleeping on your feet or by your side as you work OP? Rather than being caged? Dogs want to be with their owners not shut away. That way they will be happier and easier to train.

www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/crating-dogs/

That is a great article @Poorlykitten. I'd not seen that before.

The best way to train a puppy is to include it in whatever you're doing so it's by your side. Then you can read it's cues for when it needs a wee or some fuss or whatever.

Not with your back to it locked in a crate. 😯

And some haven't read the full thread. We are not talking about leaving a dog for long periods in a cage during the day. We are talking about short periods

Have you read the thread? OP is attempting to put the dog back in the cage immediately after being in there and alone for 8+ hours solid then leaving it to cry for half an hour. It's no wonder the dog has a bad association with the crate apart from when it's exhausted and ready for bed

My dog never accepted the crate and we gave up when he was about 6 months old. As he got older it became clear that his vision wasn't 100%, he's like a ninga catching a moving ball but once it is stationary on the ground he can't find it even when it is right in front of him, and he freaks out in any kind of tight space. In hindsight I think this explains his intolerance of the crate.

Some dogs will never tolerate a crate.

A 12 week old pup should sleep 18/20 hours a day but no way should it come out of a crate eat etc then go back in, or why get a dog. Get a pen then you can move it around the house to get him used to different areas.
Don’t just suddenly bugger off for 2 hours pup needs to know you’re coming back so pop to garden or upstairs or along the street for a few minutes and come back. You do not want a dog with separation anxiety. Crate training takes a long time, it’s not a quick fix, as it stands mine is open all the time, he doesn’t need locked in so it’s a non issue but he’ll happily go in and sleep or play with the cat in it.

My now 10 month old sleeps loose in the house nothing is chewed, dogs need boundary’s and training to feel secure, get a decent trainer op. And people on this thread need to use paragraphs because these giant monologues are not easy to read.

@CatsForLife You have a responsibility to make the room safe for your dog, not lock it in a cage every time you leave the room in case it chokes!? Surely this isn’t real, it all sounds dreadfully cruel. As other posters have suggested erect a pen that the dog can exhibit natural behaviours in, play and stretch out.

Why is he shut in his cage in the day? Is it unsafe to have him loose in the kitchen with the door shut? Fine when he's asleep but why stop him having any freedom in the day? Being used to being alone for a couple of hours is different to being awake shut in a cage for a couple of hours. Shut yourself in the bathroom for 2 hours and see if it's worse than wandering about in your house.

@21Flora Read the thread. I work part-time, always from home and can easily go two weeks without putting my pup in its crate during the day. My pup has the run of the house all day every day as there is someone around all the time. If there is an occasion where there is no one in the house for an hour, she goes in her crate with a Kong.

I have spoken out because it’s wrong the way the OP was rounded on for using a crate.

@Bortles That’s like saying just leave a baby in the middle of the room when it’s due a sleep. You need to put it somewhere safe where it wouldn’t crawl off and eat something which might cause it harm.