Dog nipped 4 year old

[Elderberry84]

I'm sorry if this sounds like a jumble, am still feeling very upset.

We have a 10 month old collie cross who we've had since he was a very young puppy. He's a lovely, affectionate dog, although we have been back and forth to a private trainer due to issues with walks (pulling and yanking -- and is so strong that only DH can now walk him as he would genuinely pull me over) which are still unresolved. Indoors he is generally very chilled, to the point of being quite lazy, and has until the last month or so had a very good relationship with our four year old.

I've noticed a shift, not in his general behaviour but in his patience with her over the last few weeks. Obviously I supervise and step in immediately if I feel my daughter is invading his space or annoying him in any way and I stop her immediately if she tries to wake him up when he is sleeping. But earlier on today I sat down for a coffee while daughter was watching cartoons; dog was dosing next to the sofa and daughter just cuddled into him while watching telly as she often does. He has never seemed to mind this in the past, but today he suddenly snapped at her cheek.

It wasn't a proper bite, and hasn't left a mark, although it hurt her and she was very upset. It seemed like a warning, but I'm so upset that it has happened and am now worried that if he will give a nip without even a growl of warning, he is quite capable of properly biting in the same manner. As mentioned above, I do closely supervise and always intervene / discipline daughter if she does anything I can see the dog is finding annoying and we discourage mouthy puppy play, but at the same time she is only 4 and there will I'm sure be moments in the future where she forgets herself. As this happened right in front of me and without warning I am worried that it doesn't make a difference whether or not she is supervised.

Has anybody experienced this before? I've spent the afternoon feeling like he is some stranger's dog and have kept them apart, am feeling quite tearful. Would it be worth going back to a trainer or should we be considering if we are the right family for him?

Please be gentle, I cannot believe I have even written about rehoming, as he is very much a member of the family. I feel a little bit in shock to be honest.

You need professional help but I would say the first thing is to keep the dog off the sofa
You will probably get the “oh my God, rehome your dog now your child could have lost an eye” brigade here soon and further down the line you may need to consider that but a snap is not a bite, especially with no mark so it was a warning. You do need to make sure your dog doesn’t get to that stage again though

Thank you, Hoppinggreen -- just to clarify (as my post was not very clear), dog was beside the sofa, not sleeping on it. Daughter was sitting on the floor with her head against the back of the sofa so in effect sitting next to the dog. He is allowed on the sofa, but only by invitation, which he's very good about.

Book an appointment with your vet for a detailed vet check and get them to refer you to a qualified behaviourist.

Your dog had the opportunity to bite but did show restraint but you need to have professional advice on this asap to help you move forward safely.

The behaviourist will be able to help you identify the triggers and if your dog never experiences the trigger they will not be forced to react like this again.

(also hide the thread as you will get the pts gang in here soon)

Collies are known to nip, I have a collie cross 10 months old and she nips I have been discouraging the behaviour and seen less of it I have a small child too so nip this in the bud as soon as possible as nipping could also turn in to biting

Also ensuring your dog has had adequate exercise can help divert your dog from nipping

I think because the dog is an excitable breed and still a puppy, does he get enough walks/runs to burn the energy?
I have 3 dogs, one does growl (which should never be punished, it’s a warning!) and has nipped. She’s a lot more energetic than the others and is so much better behaved since I’ve increased walks and off lead runs.

I wouldn’t dream of rehoming my dog for this. I hope your daughter is ok but she needs to learn to not bother the dog whilst he’s sleeping. If she can’t understand that then she needs to be separated from him whilst he’s sleeping.

Increasing exercise can actually increase adrenalin and cause more excitability.

It is dangerous for anyone to give advice on this situation apart from bring in the professionals

You need to take him to the vet and rule out any illness or injury.

If none then you need to be strict with your daughter. No leaning into him or anything like that.
You should also consult a dog behaviourist and learn about how dogs think and react.

and is so strong that only DH can now walk him as he would genuinely pull me over

This really stood out to me - why did you choose a dog breed that you would be physically unable to control? Seems really bonkers and irresponsible to me. Sorry if that sounds harsh but since the lockdown dog buying frenzy there are so many people I see out and about now who seem unable to control their dogs as they haven't really thought through the breed (apologies if there is going to be a massive drip feed and you live on a farm and it's a working dog). What would you do if your DH is out of action with a bad back or something?

Is there a chance your dd moved or did something to the dog that hurt it? Would explain why there was no warning growl, if he was sleeping and got a shock.
I wouldn't allow a child to cuddle into a sleeping dog to be honest.
I would take the dog for a check Iver at the vets to make sure there is no underlying pain that could be causing a short temper.
Your dd is 4 though, she should know by now not to annoy the dog etc without you having to remind her all the time.

It is hot and dog doesn’t want to be nuzzled if he is feeling over heated

If you have noticed the change over the last few weeks I would say the heat has played a part in this.

I would try and keep dc and dogs separate from each other and not have Dd randomly snuggling dog.

My ddog was the most easy going dog but I would never have dc going up to her when she was snoozing or having a rest.
They were always told to respect her space and she would go to them for a stroke if she wanted them to fuss her.

Definitely find a behaviourist who will help you put some clear boundaries in place. I am guessing they will say no more getting up on the sofa. He needs to know exactly where his place in the pecking order is and will feel less anxious as a result. He's still very young and is naturally just pushing to see how far he can get. Don't panic yet but get some good advice from a recommended expert ASAP. It's amazing what they can do but do but make sure you're consistent and firm with him.

Also, your dog is a 10 month old collie and you can't walk it because it would pull you over? Is there a reason you are physically incapable of restraining the dog?

@PollyRoulson Increasing exercise can actually increase adrenalin and cause more excitability.

A professional trainer told me to increase exercise and it worked a charm. I have an autistic child so I went straight to the professionals as I didn’t want him to do anything to her to cause her to bite etc

Collies are really working dogs. I grew up with Collies as working farm dogs. They need to cover acres of exercise per day. However well trained they are they will nip if irritated and it has been very warm this week. My BFF dog was lovely, but would nip at me on occasion. I think they are the best breed ever but wouldn’t have one unless I owned land. You can’t really let them off in fields as they will chase sheep / cattle etc. They are born to round things up. Unless you live somewhere where you have no livestock in fields.

I have a collie and a baby on the way. Our collie is a rescue, adopted as an adult dog, but he was still nipping when he arrived. He doesn't now unless he gets too excited. For a 10 month old collie it's not necessarily unusual . However, if there's a change in his demeanour and patience then pps are right - he may be in pain. Best to get him checked over. Another option is that your DD may be annoying him, is she fully supervised with him at all times? Has she recently started doing something that he might not be comfortable with? You need to watch their interactions very carefully to spot anything different.

Regardless, even with the gentlest dog which I think mine is, I will not be allowing my son to lean over him. I sometimes do it, but I always check how my dog is feeling and if he's comfortable with me doing it. I'd never allow a young child to do this as they lack the ability to recognise and read the dog's behaviour.

Everything will be ok, OP, don't panic, there's no reason to.

Sounds like the dog was startled by being leant on while asleep.

Does the dog have a bed? Maybe encourage him to sleep in his bed in a separate area (crate/gated room) so she can't get to him.

I would rehome the dog. It just isn't working. I agree at four your DD shouldn't be annoying the dog but neither should the dog be nipping. And not as if she pulled its tail or anything like that.

Here comes the rehoming brigade, with zero understanding of dogs or a particular breed...please ignore this nonsense, OP.

[quote Mymapuddlington]**@PollyRoulson* Increasing exercise can actually increase adrenalin and cause more excitability. *

A professional trainer told me to increase exercise and it worked a charm. I have an autistic child so I went straight to the professionals as I didn’t want him to do anything to her to cause her to bite etc[/quote]
Exactly a professional trainer who saw the situation gave you advice.

It is not advice that is suitable for all dogs and all situations - increasing the wrong type of exercise eg ball throwing can as I said before increase adrenalin and make a situation way worse.

Only a professional who sees the situation or have a detailed history give advice on this type of case.

Ok lets ignore all children being injured or worse by dogs.

Oh shut up, Vivienne, I cannot stand this sort of ignorance or tone.

@Elderberry84
Firstly - take a breath - this is stressful.

Secondly, stop and re-evaluate. You clearly think you were supervising. But the reality is the type of supervision you are describing is totally ineffective.

You talk about no warning signs but describe your dog as 'losing patience' so clearly his behaviour has changed. Please please educate yourself on dog body language - see attached image

Also please please educate yourself on appropriate dog-child interactions and supervision - I know this is tough but realistically it has happened because your dog has been increasingly stressed by your child and you've ignored it. This could lead to a severe injury for your child, and death for your dog. It is not their responsibility, it's yours. Your supervision needs to be a lot less passive/reactive - see image.

Please read the attached links and images

www.robinkbennett.com/2013/08/19/why-supervising-dogs-and-kids-doesnt-work/

www.bluecross.org.uk/pet-advice/keeping-your-family-dog-and-visiting-children-safe

Stop being in denial