Dog nipped 4 year old

[Elderberry84]

I'm sorry if this sounds like a jumble, am still feeling very upset.

We have a 10 month old collie cross who we've had since he was a very young puppy. He's a lovely, affectionate dog, although we have been back and forth to a private trainer due to issues with walks (pulling and yanking -- and is so strong that only DH can now walk him as he would genuinely pull me over) which are still unresolved. Indoors he is generally very chilled, to the point of being quite lazy, and has until the last month or so had a very good relationship with our four year old.

I've noticed a shift, not in his general behaviour but in his patience with her over the last few weeks. Obviously I supervise and step in immediately if I feel my daughter is invading his space or annoying him in any way and I stop her immediately if she tries to wake him up when he is sleeping. But earlier on today I sat down for a coffee while daughter was watching cartoons; dog was dosing next to the sofa and daughter just cuddled into him while watching telly as she often does. He has never seemed to mind this in the past, but today he suddenly snapped at her cheek.

It wasn't a proper bite, and hasn't left a mark, although it hurt her and she was very upset. It seemed like a warning, but I'm so upset that it has happened and am now worried that if he will give a nip without even a growl of warning, he is quite capable of properly biting in the same manner. As mentioned above, I do closely supervise and always intervene / discipline daughter if she does anything I can see the dog is finding annoying and we discourage mouthy puppy play, but at the same time she is only 4 and there will I'm sure be moments in the future where she forgets herself. As this happened right in front of me and without warning I am worried that it doesn't make a difference whether or not she is supervised.

Has anybody experienced this before? I've spent the afternoon feeling like he is some stranger's dog and have kept them apart, am feeling quite tearful. Would it be worth going back to a trainer or should we be considering if we are the right family for him?

Please be gentle, I cannot believe I have even written about rehoming, as he is very much a member of the family. I feel a little bit in shock to be honest.

You need to get this sorted as quickly as possible, behaviourist, vet, etc, and decide what you're going to do, but in the meantime, you need to teach your daughter to never disturb a sleeping dog. Not ever. My children grew up with our dogs and that was a rule we drilled into them from a very, very young age. Do not touch/disturb the dog whilst they are sleeping.

@PurplePansy05

Here comes the rehoming brigade, with zero understanding of dogs or a particular breed...please ignore this nonsense, OP.

No, not the rehoming brigade as such, just someone who thinks that children are more important than dogs. But there you go.

@blacksax Hope you feel better for being rude and wrong. My son will always come first. But I also have a brain and knowledge of my dog, its breed, and how to bring them up together safely, which you and some other posters clearly don't. You're welcome.

If the dog was asleep I don’t think your daughter should be going up to him. He is also still young. Does she pester him?

It is a problem though and one you need to address. I hope you can find the help you need.

@PurplePansy05

Here comes the rehoming brigade, with zero understanding of dogs or a particular breed...please ignore this nonsense, OP.

No just the common sense brigade. The OP has a dog who they admit they can't physically control, and it has started nipping their small child. What would the OP do if the dog did more than nip - they wouldn't be able to prise the dog away from their child. Sounds more like the OP is the one who didn't understand the breed.

Joanne Hinds has written a series of books to teach children how to interact appropriately with dogs: johinds.com/

What made you choose a collie as a family pet? How much do you know about the breed and their bred-in tendencies/ personalities?

I'm not a dog expert but what stood out to me is that you have a dog that is physically stronger than you. If it were to attack you or your dd there is nothing you could do about

That would scare me.

@Viviennemary

I would rehome the dog. It just isn't working. I agree at four your DD shouldn't be annoying the dog but neither should the dog be nipping. And not as if she pulled its tail or anything like that.

Utter rubbish. It's a matter of training the dog and the child.

First of all, I wouldn't have the dog on the sofa. Mine always had their own beds and weren't allowed up on the furniture.

Secondly, I think OP is allowing her DD too much free rein around the dog. I don't think children should be allowed to lie on or hug a sleeping animal. That is risky and likely to cause alarm, hence the warning nip

Think about it. Suppose you were having a nice sleep in your bed or chair. How would you then react if someone unexpectedly just came and lay on you and woke you up?

You wouldn't be very pleased about it and would probably shout out at them, if not shove them off.

Why should the dog be expected to meekly accept it?

I'm afraid I think that you are unintentionally allowing your DD to annoy the dog, who is simply behaving like a dog.

Have dog's bed available and train dog to go and rest in it. Do NOT have dog and DD on the sofa together, or any other furniture for that matter.

My guess is that there were subtle cues from the dog which were not picked up on. A very low growl, ears going back, etc.

Also, 10 months is exactly the right time for most breeds to be hitting doggy adolescence. Things often get harder at that stage, and it can cause change in character and demeanour. As can pain too, so still get a vet check just in case.

Keep the two of them apart. Train DD to leave the dog alone (good chance she may listen to you now). Dog sleeps on own bed.

Small children should not be cuddling or cuddling up to dogs end of , they are living animals not cuddly toys and you only need to poke one wrongly with your elbow when it’s asleep and who knows what the result will be . All animals should only be ‘cuddled ‘ on their terms ie they come and sit on your lap or cuddle up next to you not the other way round . Don’t get this out of perspective @Elderberry84 , your lovely dog could have taken a lump out of her and he didn’t so that’s a good thing .

How much exercise is the dog getting

How much exercise is he getting? Collies need lots and lots of exercise otherwise they do start to get nippy and display bad behaviour.

Recommended at least 2 hours of exercise a day.

A collie cross? Crossed with what?

As others have said, collies can be prone to being nippy and a vet check is essential to make sure he’s not in pain. But your other comments about not being able to handle him out walking really concern me and he’s so young still. How much and what kind of exercise is he getting? Also his diet can help with all kinds of behavioural issues.

Obviously I supervise and step in immediately if I feel my daughter is invading his space or annoying him in any way and I stop her immediately if she tries to wake him up when he is sleeping

This reads as if you are being too passive with your DD and waiting until she is actually invading his space and has started trying to wake him when he is asleep.

You need to be more proactive. Anticipate what she is going to do before she does it and stop her from doing it in the first place. Not wait until she is already pushing her luck with the dog. That means you intervene too late and on this occasion there were very nearly nasty consequences.

Your dog was stressed. That was very likely the cause of the nip. It was a warning. Heed it. You almost certainly haven't been picking up on your dog's cues and that is very possibly why you are noticing changes in demeanour towards your DD.

Make her stop bothering the dog. Don't wait until she is doing it.

daughter just cuddled into him while watching telly as she often does

This stood out to me as your main issue in terms of your dog and your DD. She shouldn't be cuddling him. Primates hug, dogs don't. He's tolerated it before and in all likelihood has given you signals he's not enjoying it but because they've not been obvious to you, you've missed them. (read into dog body language for cues that are often missed). As a result he's been forced to resort to snapping to warn her to stop.

www.treehugger.com/why-dogs-dont-like-to-be-hugged-4863898

I agree with PPs that you also need to work with a behaviourist to learn how to fully read and understand his behaviour.

The collie is a working breed and needs lots of exercise. Miles a day. But you can’t walk your own dog. Well that’s just embarrassing for a start. Get a halti over his head and you will be able to walk him fine. If an owner can walk a horse in one and not be pulled over I’m sure you can walk a dog in one! That will give him more exercise.

Collies are very intelligent and need something to stimulate them. Like flyball or something. Is there a local agility group near you?

Your child probably used to lie on the dog etc but she’s too big and heavy now. The poor dog is not a toy. She needs to leave him alone or be more careful with him and not so rough and then she won’t get nipped.

You say he’s not himself. Get him to the vet as there could be something wrong.

Id suggest you chose the dog based on looks and not in suitability for your household.

But you can turn this around if you put the effort in if you love the dog.

I still can’t believe you can’t walk him. Poor dog.

She needs to learn not to bother the dog, especially while he’s sleeping. Kids aren’t good enough at reading dog behaviour to know when it’s ok to touch, so it’s best to teach kids not to touch at all. My DS knows he isn’t allowed to touch the dog unless supervised by me. And it’s a good life lesson to never put your face near a dog anyway.

Dog was dosing...
Explained right there imo.

Ime dc is still a bit young to 'read' ddog and the ddoggy rules.
But more supervising for a bit longer and all will be well.
Ds 6 and our ddogs are absolute besties. He knows to literally let sleeping ddogs lie. Like any ddog owner it's a learning curve for him also.
Your ddog is not savage and doesn't need rehomed or pts...

I read time and again about young children and snappy dogs.

Genuine question - but why do people get puppies when their children are still so young that they "forget themselves"?

Why not wait until the children are old enough to know rules, and consistently obey them, around animals?

Anyway OP too late for that. You decided to get a puppy when you had a pre-schooler. I'd keep them separate at all times until she's old enough to know better.

[quote PurplePansy05]@blacksax Hope you feel better for being rude and wrong. My son will always come first. But I also have a brain and knowledge of my dog, its breed, and how to bring them up together safely, which you and some other posters clearly don't. You're welcome.[/quote]
This is a joke. Re-home the dog. Your child comes first

If anyone was rude it was you Pansy. Telling me to shut up.

@30degreesandmeltinghere

Dog was dosing... Explained right there imo.

Ime dc is still a bit young to 'read' ddog and the ddoggy rules.
But more supervising for a bit longer and all will be well.
Ds 6 and our ddogs are absolute besties. He knows to literally let sleeping ddogs lie. Like any ddog owner it's a learning curve for him also.
Your ddog is not savage and doesn't need rehomed or pts...

That's what I was thinking - let sleeping dogs lie. Your dd shouldn't have been near him let alone trying to cuddle him while he was dozing.

It reads to me like you're not doing enough to keep your DD and the dog safe.

You say you intervene when DD is in his space but that's too late - she shouldn't be allowed in his space unless he approaches her. So if she calls the dog and he comes for a fuss, that's okay. But if he's just sitting on the sofa she shouldn't be snuggling up to him or approaching him for playtime.

At the moment it seems clear that the two of them can't be trusted so you must keep them apart using baby gates or closed doors if necessary.