vets

[earnshaw47]

why do vets charge £80 per month for tablets which cost £5 on the internet , who can afford that on top of their fees

@TaupeHearts

I don’t believe anyone here is a vet because none of you post on those forums. Suggesting you aren’t vets.

I posted separately for advice ages ago and didn’t get one response and neither do others. I genuinely wonder why as you seem to be able to respond to me all the time

@Suzzi888 I'm not a vet but I can only assume you are here to wind up the vets either that or a bit dim Obviously you're not going to get a diagnosis for your animal by posting in a parenting forum. This alone shows that you don't have a clue of the nuances of running a veterinary practice. Blame the big corporates buying up individual independent practices for millions, but to blame vets as a profession is ridiculous.

Of course, if you don't like it, you could set up on your own. Let me know if you need help finding university courses (you'll need A/A* in science A levels, and it takes five years to qualify). Unfortunately, unless you want to work for one of the big corporates, as well as student loans to pay off you'll also need premises and the ability to pay for equipment, insurance, staff and drugs. Good luck, do let us know how you get on.

I have seen close up the blood, sweat and tears that goes in to being a vet, particularly an independent one. It consumes a whole family life and my relatives suffered by being available to the general public all hours of day or night. I'm not posting again because you haven't bothered to research what you are spouting about and seem to get a kick of riling people who are trying to help all our animals when they could be having a much easier life for much more money.

@TaupeHearts oh sorry it’s just a parenting forum is it. Are you meant to be another vet lol

I have a degree thanks and A levels and a job I’m very happy with that apparently pays more than a vet, so I’ll pass on your ridiculous offer. Thank god your not posting again.🤣

@OhHarry

I vet personally told me that the practice she used to own has been turned into a cash cow and the vets employed don’t care about animals. But hey, you know best.

This is hilarious! Do you have any idea how many noughts there will have been in the price she accepted? So she sold out to make a quick buck and some poor newly qualified gets the blame!

@OhHarry she’s 80 ffs.

Vet practices do seem to vary a lot, not just in charges but in policies, some now letting you in the consulting room with a mask, others making you wait in the car park & just communicating by phone, but also in vet turnover.
Over the course of a long life with many animals I’ve used various practices so have seen all kinds. Currently I use two. One is a small branch, that has just recently opened in a local village, of a larger surgery they have in a town, a fellow dog exhibitor & judge uses the larger surgery & recommended them. You always see one of the only two vets that are there. It’s more like the small country practices, of just one or two vets, years ago that I used to have locally.
My other vet that I’ve been with quite a few years has two vets who are the owners/ directors who have been there for years but they also have half a dozen others & the turn over in them is very rapid, none of them seem to stay there for more than one or two, at most, years. Can’t understand the reason as it’s a well known, established practice in the town with a lot of clients. I have noticed that some owners, me included, ask to see one of the two constant, older vets there. Me because one of them has known my dogs for years & admits that decades of breeder/owner experience can often throw light where book learning can’t always.
I just really can’t understand the very rapid turnover in the younger vets

Darklane- probably working hours, pay, lack of professional development or unpleasant personnel, or disagreements with practice ethos.

I just really can’t understand the very rapid turnover in the younger vets

Salary. Hours
Simple.
You give people good working conditions and a decent salary and they'll stay.

It's cheaper for the older partners to constantly employ cheap new grads but give them no support in developing their skills, until the new vets get wise to this and leave.

@vivainsomnia

I'll give you a clue - we are legally not allowed to prescribe cheap generic alternatives where a veterinary licensed product exists. So we have to use more expensive drugs most of the time, and yes it costs us more to buy them so no we aren't making more profit I totally get that and expect to pay more. The issue is how much more vets charge. Not a third, not double but up to 10 times the cost for humans and I fail to believe it really cost that much more.

A private GP appt is about £70 Indeed much more than the cost under the NHS, because it's know to be the way to make a nice profit!

Mostly of the time antibiotics at my practice cost around £20-40 (depending on patient size and specific meds) plus a £35 consult fee - so barely more than just a consult with a GP
And I now use FirstVet for free with my insurance and got a link to antibiotics for just over 10 pounds. It's no surprise insurances are encouraging their use. They also gave me a thorough written report and a link to o buying the prescribed dog food that was 1/3 cheaper than what my vet had quoted.

You can 'refuse to believe' small business economics all you like - it doesn't make them any less real

How much do you think an NHS consultation costs then? Or do you believe in the magic money tree? You do know it's not actually free right?

And I see you've not provided any of the costs I asked for, however I've clearly explained that the reality is a GP appointment is more expensive than a vet which entirely disproves your 'argument' that NHS antibiotics are cheaper - of course they are if you entirely ignore all of the professional fees in dispensing them but the reality is that you can't access them without accounting for those professional fees which are significantly more expensive in human medicine.

Would you prefer vets to sell you antibiotics at cost, but charge Human-equivalent professional fees? Do you really think you'd be better off?

Yes telemedicine services like Firstvet are useful.

But it'll be interesting to see how you get on with that when your pet requires specialist or out of hours treatment and all your local vets have gone out of business/been bought up by the 'evil' corporates
Good luck!

@TaupeHearts oh sorry it’s just a parenting forum is it. Are you meant to be another vet lol

I have a degree thanks and A levels and a job I’m very happy with that apparently pays more than a vet, so I’ll pass on your ridiculous offer.

The lack of reading comprehension, not to mention understanding of very basic economics on this thread is a surprise.
I honestly thought the general public were brighter than this. And more decent.

Weird also that someone left bragging about their own salary calls others greedy

How lovely to be slandering others earning less than you for expecting you to pay for their professional services.

The turnover in younger vets is a really recognised problem within the profession; a surprisingly large number of vets leave the profession within 5 years of graduating. It’s something that the veterinary regulator (the RCVS) is trying to address, because currently many practices are struggling to recruit enough staff to provide safe levels of care for pets, especially out of hours.

I think the causes of vets leaving the profession are multi factorial, but a big contributor might be the kind of vitriol we have seen on this thread, directed against us for the heinous crime of wanting to devote our working life to helping animals, and having the cheek to expect to be paid for it.

I really believe that everyone receiving treatment on the NHS should be given a summary of the cost of their treatment. The full cost to cover all overheads, it might be a bit of a shock to quite a few people.

@countrygirl99

I really believe that everyone receiving treatment on the NHS should be given a summary of the cost of their treatment. The full cost to cover all overheads, it might be a bit of a shock to quite a few people.

I agree. It seems even some of those working as HCP don't understand this. There have been 2 posts on vet-bashing threads in the past couple of weeks where self-claimed HCP have shown their ignorance of basic healthcare costs

I think the causes of vets leaving the profession are multi factorial, but a big contributor might be the kind of vitriol we have seen on this thread, directed against us for the heinous crime of wanting to devote our working life to helping animals, and having the cheek to expect to be paid for it.

Absolutely. What's even sadder is that even with a previous poster linking out to the significant MH issues in the profession, a number of posters have still returned to continue with claiming we're all greedy fantasists.

@Darklane

Vet practices do seem to vary a lot, not just in charges but in policies, some now letting you in the consulting room with a mask, others making you wait in the car park & just communicating by phone, but also in vet turnover. Over the course of a long life with many animals I’ve used various practices so have seen all kinds. Currently I use two. One is a small branch, that has just recently opened in a local village, of a larger surgery they have in a town, a fellow dog exhibitor & judge uses the larger surgery & recommended them. You always see one of the only two vets that are there. It’s more like the small country practices, of just one or two vets, years ago that I used to have locally. My other vet that I’ve been with quite a few years has two vets who are the owners/ directors who have been there for years but they also have half a dozen others & the turn over in them is very rapid, none of them seem to stay there for more than one or two, at most, years. Can’t understand the reason as it’s a well known, established practice in the town with a lot of clients. I have noticed that some owners, me included, ask to see one of the two constant, older vets there. Me because one of them has known my dogs for years & admits that decades of breeder/owner experience can often throw light where book learning can’t always. I just really can’t understand the very rapid turnover in the younger vets

Probably because no one wants to see them! While the older more experienced vets are booked from dawn until dusk and beyond!!

@Veterinari. Personally I think your posts are great & I look forward to seeing you on threads. When I (eventually) get my next dig I'm moving - to wherever the hell you are!! I'm sure some of the other vets posting are fab too, I'm just not so familiar with them

I think for non vets, it's a lot like when you take your car to the mechanic if you have no knowledge - you don't know if they know their stuff or not, if they're very experienced or not and if they're ripping you off or not for meds/parts

There's good/bad in every trade/profession (very definitely including my own) & it's hard to know one from the other until you form a relationship with them really.

But I think, at least with vets, there's much more chance they went into it fir the right reasons so their car at least should be good! ☺️

I would NEVER buy drugs if the Internet fit my oets unless the vets could recommend a supplier.

I had a bad experience myself with contraception over the Internet (I knew the risk I was taking) there's no way I'd do it for my pet (unless I could be totally sure it was genuine)

Word of mouth for a vet practice.

Best to ignore goady posts & posters

@Veterinari apparently it’s not a great salary is it! So how am I bragging. I’m sorry I took the insulting my intelligence bait. I don’t need a degree for my job, nor my A levels in Physics and Psychology- grade C and B (sorry I didn’t do better).

Mental health issues? You think it’s not emotionally draining speaking to a victim of DV at midnight in a police station, with her children, trying to house this family in what you know is a woefully below par housing ON A WEEK OFF
I might add (unpaid!) - but have no bloody choice. You literally have no idea and zero empathy.

I pay privately for my healthcare including seeing a G.P. They don’t subject me to pointless, very costly blood tests.
I know I’m not alone in my thinking so I don’t really care what you have to say.
I’m allowed an opinion, as are you.

In praise of my current vet - a new independent practice, one partner having been a locum at my old vet who sold to a corporate when he retired.

Open 7 days a week - just a couple of hours on Sat and Sun morning, but better than the emergency vet option.

I had an emergency consult for a hot spot on a dog, two hours notice, shaved the area, steroid jab, hibiscrub. £62. Antibiotics put on the system incase they are needed later (and I can just pick them up, no new consult needed) - but looking like we are managing it without, doesn't want to use them unless absolutely necessary. "ring me if you're worried, I'll be here Sat and Sun and will always call you back if I can't answer".

While I was sitting in the waiting room I heard the receptionist take 3 calls from new clients wanting to register.

I loved my old vet practice, was gutted when he retired - but then I'd also retired so of course he would, same age as me.

I would always choose an independent if I could though - the only negative experience I had was when the old practice went corporate.

[quote Suzi888]@Veterinari apparently it’s not a great salary is it! So how am I bragging. I’m sorry I took the insulting my intelligence bait. I don’t need a degree for my job, nor my A levels in Physics and Psychology- grade C and B (sorry I didn’t do better).

Mental health issues? You think it’s not emotionally draining speaking to a victim of DV at midnight in a police station, with her children, trying to house this family in what you know is a woefully below par housing ON A WEEK OFF
I might add (unpaid!) - but have no bloody choice. You literally have no idea and zero empathy.

I pay privately for my healthcare including seeing a G.P. They don’t subject me to pointless, very costly blood tests.
I know I’m not alone in my thinking so I don’t really care what you have to say.
I’m allowed an opinion, as are you.[/quote]
You still seem to be mistaking this thread for your personal blog.

Honestly, I'm not sure anyone is especially interested in your work life, educational history, pets clinical history or general opinions. It's weird you keep providing so much unasked for and unwanted personal information

It's to prove what a superior person she is. But apparently she makes more money out of desperate DV victims than she would as a greedy vet🤷

You can 'refuse to believe' small business economics all you like - it doesn't make them any less real confused
Yet so many people are complaining of the exact same issue which wasn't there years ago.

This is the reason why GPs are still operating under the NHS because we know that the second they go private, it becomes all about the business and making money and yes I do know very well as I work with private GPs and they don't even try to pretend otherwise.

I trust the quality of care delivered by my local vet practice and they have been very good in many ways. They are great with the animals, are back allowing owners with their pets, and were great not invoicing for weeks when we had to put our cat to sleep.

Do they try to get extra money wherever they can. Without a doubt. Thankfully, I have the confidence to question things and not take anything they say at face value when they start mentioning addiional tests and treatments. And for smaller ailments, it FirstVet everytime.

@vivainsomnia

You can 'refuse to believe' small business economics all you like - it doesn't make them any less real confused Yet so many people are complaining of the exact same issue which wasn't there years ago.

This is the reason why GPs are still operating under the NHS because we know that the second they go private, it becomes all about the business and making money and yes I do know very well as I work with private GPs and they don't even try to pretend otherwise.

I trust the quality of care delivered by my local vet practice and they have been very good in many ways. They are great with the animals, are back allowing owners with their pets, and were great not invoicing for weeks when we had to put our cat to sleep.

Do they try to get extra money wherever they can. Without a doubt. Thankfully, I have the confidence to question things and not take anything they say at face value when they start mentioning addiional tests and treatments. And for smaller ailments, it FirstVet everytime.

How long exactly do you think the VDS and veterinary drug licensing legislation has been around for? Or the selection of veterinary drugs now available ? You work in healthcare and you're unaware of the concept of drug R&D?

Yes you're right you didn't have this problem years ago. You probably got a jab of steroids and penicillin instead.

Also - which vet service is it you prefer? I think you've only promoted them 3 or 4 times on this thread.

From your lack of healthcare knowledge and CONSTANT name dropping it's almost like you aren't really a HCP - just someone advertising a commercial service
It's interesting, as in the UK you can legally only prescribe drugs for an animal under your care. And yet you suggest they've done so without actually establishing a vet-patient relationship. Vet services also have to provide 24 hour service including first Aid and euthanasia which a telephone service do not - they have to direct you to your nearest practice.

I just looked up FirstVet as I had had clients referred in. They claim to email info on the consult over to your vet prior to your appointment, this is not my experience that information arrives 48 hours later not to the main practice email address, but some other random email the information provided is so brief it's not worth having I gained more in the first three minutes of the consult. On one occasion the First Vet consult delayed the examination of the pet that had ingested poison to the point that it was almost too late to induce vomiting,
I think there are some instances where video consults are appropriate, but not as a first line. I say that as being a human misdiagnosed down the phone and now months down the line requiring a barrage of tests.

A veterinarian practice is also a business. That's why they need to offer (sometimes even foist off meds they sell). Initially, prescription required meds were not available elsewhere, so we had to buy them from vets. Nowadays we have a choice. I normally buy medication from the vet if needed few pills. If we need long-term medications, our vet is totally ok if I decide to buy pet meds online.

I used to buy medications from the vets as dogs insured but given I have to pay a % the higher prices was costing me a fair chunk per month so switched to online pharmacies.
We have to remember to call up to order meds at our vets few days in advance as they don't keep much in stock and with traveling to vets to collect i find it easier to get prescription emailed and meds delivered.
I can't recall what prescription fee is £13-18 maybe, so some some drugs maybe cheaper to get from vet. The fee seems fair as it does take their time up & they'll usually do it with repeats if allowed.

I'm sure with the number of hours my vet puts in his salary must work out pittance & they struggled for months trying to recruit new vet or even decent locums to cover.

Most of the independent practices have now been bought out by a few corporates in our area in the past few years.

Vets are running a business.
They care about animals or they wouldn’t have become vets but at the end of the day it’s a profession.
They pay for premises, staff, all other overheads and although it’s reasonably well paid none of the vets I know are exactly millionaires, and do you have any idea how much getting qualified costs?
The NHS means that most people in The UK have no concept about how much healthcare actually costs - because we dint pay for it for ourselves we begrudge paying for it for our pets.

Because online pharmacies are generally not able to assist when your pet has been hit by a car and requires immediate expert assessment, oxygen, an operating theatre, specialist equipment, drugs, sterile instruments, qualified vets, nurses, kennel staff, heating, lighting, public liability insurance, a client carpark and waiting room, a receptionist to answer the telephone, a fully equipped warm and comfortable hospital, laundry facilities and consulting rooms.

It seems extraordinarily thick to not comprehend this. The running costs of a veterinary practice are absolutely huge. How do you think these costs are met OP? Your attack on vets and veterinary practices is sickening and appalling.