vets

[earnshaw47]

why do vets charge £80 per month for tablets which cost £5 on the internet , who can afford that on top of their fees

I hate that people tar all vets with the same brush. I am sure there are probably a minority who give the profession a bad name, just like any other profession, but on the whole my experience of vets has been that they are extremely hard-working, compassionate people who do their very best, often in less than ideal circumstances. How they keep their temper with certain members of the public astounds me.

I pay for my current dog’s monthly meds via the vets, even though I know I could get them cheaper online, because they have looked after him for 16 years and I wouldn’t feel right buying them from some massive online retailer who only cares about the profits.

When my other dog was seriously ill and needed unusual meds that cost a fortune, my vet insisted that we bought them online, as they were not commonly used and the vet couldn’t stock them in enough quantity to make them reasonably affordable. I bought the first two months from the vet, then switched to online via prescription.

I don’t think I have ever, in almost 40 years, had a vet recommend expensive, avoidable treatment or meds. I have had one that I didn’t feel comfortable with and didn’t agree with their approach, so we got a second opinion and moved practices.

You only have to look at the breakdown of costs for private medical treatment to see how expensive veterinary care is. I agree with Wolfiefan, having the NHS in the UK means most people have absolutely no idea of the real costs involved in medical care. Needles, syringes, cannulas, dressings etc, aren’t any cheaper for veterinary use than they are for human medical use. That’s without even getting into the costs of all the specialist equipment vets are expected to purchase, maintain and keep up to date.

If you really feel, based on genuine experience, that your dog’s vet is overcharging, upselling or even just not very reliable, you can always do some research and move to a better one.

Vet care is private health care for pets and costs money. The vets have to make a profit to continue to invest in the business, people, buildings and equipment.

However the beauty of private health is that you are free to shop around if you aren't happy with the prices as some vets will be cheaper than others.

And as for getting medication cheaper on line well that's the same for most things. Specialist advice by a vet costs money and therefore you would need to pay for a prescription. But if you then go to an online pharmacy that buys in bulk it will possibly be cheaper. There is a balance though as you still need vets to be profitable otherwise they will go under.

I’ve been with 3 different vets as a dog owner. Not one has tried to rip me off or not made it clear that basic prescriptions can be bought online (as long as I had an accurate weight for my dogs for dosage).
The first one did try to steer me towards the food they sold, but only in passing and didn’t go on about it once I said I was using a different one suitable for my dog’s breed and activity levels.
I’ve signed up to their monthly plan for the first year of my latest dog’s life, as it offers a discount for spaying as well as all the vaccinations and monthly wormer etc. I’ll probably cancel it when she has reached her adult weight and doesn’t need monthly wormers and has been spayed.

I haven’t come across these greedy vets I often read about on here. They probably aren’t as widespread as some posters like to make out. If I ever come across them I would simply change my vet, no big deal.

Totally agree @PermanentlyDizzy.

Prescriptions did used to be free till a few years ago.
No matter what they charge it doesn’t forgive poor care like the times I posted about which I notice no vet has cared to comment on.

I have one good vet in the practice I’ve used for years who goes out of her way to care for my dogs. But now I always make sure that my appointments are with him & not with some others in the practice, one who insisted my dog had Kennel Cough yet my old vet recognised immediately as hay fever. Another insisted I could have an appointment in four days time when I told him I was already driving non stop on my way down from the remote Highland Scotland village where my father lives to be back in northern England to see her usual vet with one who’d collapsed that morning.

@Darklane

Prescriptions did used to be free till a few years ago. No matter what they charge it doesn’t forgive poor care like the times I posted about which I notice no vet has cared to comment on.

I have one good vet in the practice I’ve used for years who goes out of her way to care for my dogs. But now I always make sure that my appointments are with him & not with some others in the practice, one who insisted my dog had Kennel Cough yet my old vet recognised immediately as hay fever. Another insisted I could have an appointment in four days time when I told him I was already driving non stop on my way down from the remote Highland Scotland village where my father lives to be back in northern England to see her usual vet with one who’d collapsed that morning.

@Darklane, so rather than be grateful your vet used to donate their professional prescription services for free, you're now simply resentful that you have to pay a professional qualified expert for their time and expertise? Do you work for free? Would you expect your doctor or solicitor to?

The reason that vets started to charge for prescriptions is because the popularity of online pharmacies meant that we need to start charging appropriately for professional services as owners elect to pay for cheaper products. If you'd rather vets didn't do this abd instead went bankrupt then that's your choice. The reality though is that most businesses aim to be reasonably recompensed for professional services. It's how economics work.

No one one has commented on your specific case because a) you've not asked anyone to and derailing the thread to focus on your personal grievance is not in the spirit of MN, and
b) you've provided scant information and without access to a proper clinical history none of us has the appropriate information to comment.

It does sound as if you've had some unpleasant experiences but if you're trying to argue that your personal experiences makes all of us greedy and uncaring then that simply faulty logic.

I'm not really sure what response you were expecting?

I see these kinds of statements a lot.

To those who think all vets are money grabbing....

When do you think the little girl who loves watching pet rescue transforms into the money grabbing vet you describe? Do we all get a personality transplant the day we graduate from vet school? Or do you think we wanted to be vets to rip people off even from the age of 4?

The vast majority of vets don’t own the practice they work in, and are salaried, so there isn’t an incentive to ‘overcharge’. I agree fees can be a lot of money because it’s a fairly expensive service to provide, but the profit margins in most vet practices are quite small and the salaries aren’t huge (£22k for a vet nurse and £40k for an experienced vet being fairly average where I am, which is London).

@Veterinari

You do the attacking. You repeatedly engage and never let anyone have an opinion. Ever.

Please point out where I've called anyone names like you have it where you've given a reasoned response to the OPlike I have?

I’m a housing manager.
Does that mean you make your living from homeless people or those struggling to afford their own homes?

I vet personally told me that the practice she used to own has been turned into a cash cow and the vets employed don’t care about animals. But hey, you know best.

Oh ok - well if a single vet told you then it must be true. Odd that she sold her own practice to a corporate group employing uncaring vets when she clearly cares so much about animals and has such high ethics herself - why did she do that? I can totally see why you'd value the opinion of someone so utterly I corrupted by financial motivation

I wasn’t referring to this specific thread... I haven’t called you a name, no doubt if I had mn would delete it.

I hardly make a living from homeless people, they don’t pay for the service my department carries out. No I don’t see people who simply can’t afford their own home.

If the vet is so wonderful and have so much expertise, why the hell do they insist on charging me for a prescription and a complete review including blood tests every three months to monitor a condition they’ve admitted they don’t carry the right tests for in any case and would never have found out about if he hadn’t had a major operation with another practice!
The medication they prescribe has no effect on my dog’s condition. In fact the condition only carried ‘markers’ and may not even develop into that condition and the medication is fine to be given with that condition. But yeah we will charge you £320 every three months on top of the £200 a month for the tablets- and that’s from an online supplier because “oh we can’t really answer your question”.
Another random charge they occasionally throw in is £30 for blood pressure monitoring, (that can be done at home, when I pressed them) for instance. Why does he need that done? “Oh you know just to check, even though it’s always high as he’s so excited it’s a bit pointless isn’t it )”.
How wonderful, I shall be eternally grateful in future and thank my lucky stars. I suppose the service is delivered with a massive and costs £40 for ten minutes before all the other crap they throw in. 👌🏻🙄

Ps vet sold the practice as she’s way over retirement age, I can’t imagine she knew in advance that the surgery would be run as a cash cow. It’s a situation that’s gotten steadily worse, she still managed it when it was first sold.

@Suzi888

Oops pressed post too soon. Yes they are greedy. Very greedy and they pray on people’s love of their animals and should be ashamed. I’d hate to be associated with the profession!

Is that true? Bloody hell, that's shocking.

You see I thought it was because they have massive overheads and really expensive equipment/staffing costs etc. I didn't realise it was because they hate pet owners.

I vet personally told me that the practice she used to own has been turned into a cash cow and the vets employed don’t care about animals. But hey, you know best.

This is hilarious! Do you have any idea how many noughts there will have been in the price she accepted? So she sold out to make a quick buck and some poor newly qualified gets the blame!

I think the NHS means we have little idea how much medication and treatment actually cost
It's the exact opposite. When you know the cost of a surgical intervention and cost of drugs under the NHS, you are really dumbfounded trying to justify the costs raised by vets.

Antibiotics costs only a few pounds under the NHS, so even taking unto considering economies of scales and the rest, I fail to understanding how the same drug for a dog cost over 20 pounds.

Same with eye drops, sickness tablets etc...

@Suzi888
I wasn’t referring to this specific thread... I haven’t called you a name, no doubt if I had mn would delete it.

You have called several of us on in this thread greedy. A number of us are vets. You have repeatedly stated that vets are greedy. So yes you have personally slandered us. I've not reported it because I'd prefer to let your name-calling stand for others to see.

I hardly make a living from homeless people, they don’t pay for the service my department carries out.
So taxpayers find your services then? Including us vets a presume? So you're still earning money from other people aren't you? Or do you think your salary magically appears?

If the vet is so wonderful and have so much expertise, why the hell do they insist on charging me for a prescription and a complete review including blood tests every three months
Because it's a data sheet VMD requirement and you're paying for their professional services to be compliant so that they can continue to dispense. You don't have a vet degree so you probably aren't clear on the very many regulatory issues we have to adhere to.

to monitor a condition they’ve admitted they don’t carry the right tests for in any case and would never have found out about if he hadn’t had a major operation with another practice!

You have access to private veterinary providers. I'm confused as to why you're directing your energy to complaining and derailing a thread on the internet when you could, quite simply, change between practices if you are unhappy with the service

The medication they prescribe has no effect on my dog’s condition. In fact the condition only carried ‘markers’ and may not even develop into that condition and the medication is fine to be given with that condition. But yeah we will charge you £320 every three months on top of the £200 a month for the tablets- and that’s from an online supplier because “oh we can’t really answer your question”.
So why not change vets, get a second opinion or stop the meds then? You are complaining about a course of treatment that you are consenting to and paying for. You have a choice

Another random charge they occasionally throw in is £30 for blood pressure monitoring, (that can be done at home, when I pressed them) for instance. Why does he need that done? “Oh you know just to check, even though it’s always high as he’s so excited it’s a bit pointless isn’t it )”.
See my point above.
But if your pet has chronically high blood pressure then that is a clinical concern and can lead to kidney problems. I find it weird that you're clearly unhappy and yet ranting at me in the internet rather than having a constructive conversation with the vet actually responsible for your pet. Your energy seems misdirected

How wonderful, I shall be eternally grateful in future and thank my lucky stars. I suppose the service is delivered with a massive and costs £40 for ten minutes before all the other crap they throw in. 👌🏻🙄**

Yeah cos there's definitely no reasonable middle ground between 'being eternally grateful' abd slandering an entire profession on the internet

You couldn't for example take some responsibility for you own choices and decision-making and seek alternative options, or have constructive conversations with your vet about your concerns. Surely that is more likely to lead to a positive outcome for your pet than this?

@vivainsomnia

I think the NHS means we have little idea how much medication and treatment actually cost It's the exact opposite. When you know the cost of a surgical intervention and cost of drugs under the NHS, you are really dumbfounded trying to justify the costs raised by vets.

Antibiotics costs only a few pounds under the NHS, so even taking unto considering economies of scales and the rest, I fail to understanding how the same drug for a dog cost over 20 pounds.

Same with eye drops, sickness tablets etc...

@vivainsomnia

That's great - please do outline for me the VMD cascade regulations on the use of human-licensed drugs in Veterinary? patients....
I'll give you a clue - we are legally not allowed to prescribe cheap generic alternatives where a veterinary licensed product exists. So we have to use more expensive drugs most of the time, and yes it costs us more to buy them so no we aren't making more profit. But please do you ahead and criticise us for working within the regulatory framework set out by the government...

In human healthcare who examines the patient, diagnoses, prescribes and dispenses your lovely cheap antibiotics?

A private GP appt is about £70. On top of that you need to consider a private prescription charge, plus pharmacist salary/time/dispensing fee. Plus the costs of drug storage and paperwork. In a private system all of those costs are passed on to the patient.

Most of the time antibiotics at my practice cost around £20-40 (depending on patient size and specific meds) plus a £35 consult fee - so barely more than just a consult with a GP.

However I'd be really interested in seeing your cost breakdown for all the things I've listed?

Well I have a wonderful vet. They have a flat fee for the month...I had to bring my GSD four times last month as she developed an ear infection. They made the appointments as they wanted to keep an eye on her, and didn’t charge a penny extra. I pay for medication and it’s the same price as other vets I’ve been to.

I suspect that the purchasing power of a vets practice, even a large one, is somewhat less than that of the NHS. Especially as the NHS only has to buy for 1 species.

@Suzi888 Given that vets don't make a huge amount of money for their level of intelligence and application (they could double their salary working in other professions) why do you consider them greedy?

The vast majority of vets don’t own the practice they work in, and are salaried, so there isn’t an incentive to ‘overcharge’. I agree fees can be a lot of money because it’s a fairly expensive service to provide, but the profit margins in most vet practices are quite small and the salaries aren’t huge (£22k for a vet nurse and £40k for an experienced vet being fairly average where I am, which is London). I mean that's crazy, isn't it, £40K, when the average UK graduate STARTING salary is £29K. I don't think some posters on this thread have a clue. they need to read this for starters.

@OhHarry

The vast majority of vets don’t own the practice they work in, and are salaried, so there isn’t an incentive to ‘overcharge’. I agree fees can be a lot of money because it’s a fairly expensive service to provide, but the profit margins in most vet practices are quite small and the salaries aren’t huge (£22k for a vet nurse and £40k for an experienced vet being fairly average where I am, which is London). I mean that's crazy, isn't it, £40K, when the average UK graduate STARTING salary is £29K. I don't think some posters on this thread have a clue. they need to read this for starters.

Vet salaries haven't risen for 10 years. So relatively speaking we get paid less than we did

[quote OhHarry]@Suzi888 Given that vets don't make a huge amount of money for their level of intelligence and application (they could double their salary working in other professions) why do you consider them greedy?[/quote]
I think I’ve explained more than enough. I expect the vet to know why they’re ordering certain tests etc.

@Veterinari I take the “I’m a vet” statement with a huge pinch of salt, so I’m not referring to you or anyone else on this thread. Who knows if anyone is a legitimate vet or not.

“Because it's a data sheet VMD requirement and you're paying for their professional services to be compliant so that they can continue to dispense. You don't have a vet degree so you probably aren't clear on the very many regulatory issues we have to adhere to. “ That doesn’t answer my question. It’s also not true, they can choose to monitor every six months.
“change between practices if you are unhappy with the service”.
No can do, even more expensive.
“But if your pet has chronically high blood pressure”
He doesn’t.
“Have a constructive conversation with the vet actually responsible for your pet”.
Would love to, but different bloody vet every time I go. How many other ways can I ask them the same question.
“Surely that is more likely to lead to a positive outcome for your pet than this?”
Would love to, but the tablets he needs are only for arthritis. He needs them or he will be in pain. I don’t mind paying, but I want to know why they want to throw seemingly random medical procedures in for no apparent reason. The tablets are kidney friendly - so they’ve told me.
He has markers for kidney disease that they admit they have no way of monitoring as they don’t carry the required test and he may never actually get it in any case. So they carry out other blood tests and tell me they’re fine. Last time tested his urine, charged me, but said it’ll be useless though as you’ve taken it this morning and now it’s evening ..... well they’ve never mentioned that before! Who knew!

I’m only responding to you, so not trying to derail. But won’t respond again.

Yes the money that pays for homelessness /housing comes from the tax payer. I’ve no qualms about that. We don’t put people up in the Hilton!

@Suzi888

What are you wanting from this thread?
To slander a profession and individual posters here then claim that's ok because we're probably lying anyway so why on Earth shouldn't you be rude?
That's decent of you

But you still expect us to listen to your diatribes and answer your very specific clinical concerns, which you're apparently powerless to influence or even discuss with your vet despite being a consumer with the choice to select your own veterinary healthcare provider.

And by the way, no, you aren't just responding to me - I've asked for no information on your pet or it's clinical condition. It's not my concern - yet you continue to post long diatribes. You're clearing just ranting.

God forbid you should take any responsibility for your own decisions or actions.
It's clearly a case of 'someone else's fault'

Must be tough.

I echo the previous vet. I'm glad you aren't my client and I'd suggest that since you have problems with every vet you encounter, maybe there's a common denominator?

Or perhaps you should ask your ethical vet pal who sold her business for millions to the terrible vets she's lumbered you with. After all you seem to think her opinion is worth plenty.

I'll give you a clue - we are legally not allowed to prescribe cheap generic alternatives where a veterinary licensed product exists. So we have to use more expensive drugs most of the time, and yes it costs us more to buy them so no we aren't making more profit
I totally get that and expect to pay more. The issue is how much more vets charge. Not a third, not double but up to 10 times the cost for humans and I fail to believe it really cost that much more.

A private GP appt is about £70 Indeed much more than the cost under the NHS, because it's know to be the way to make a nice profit!

Mostly of the time antibiotics at my practice cost around £20-40 (depending on patient size and specific meds) plus a £35 consult fee - so barely more than just a consult with a GP
And I now use FirstVet for free with my insurance and got a link to antibiotics for just over 10 pounds. It's no surprise insurances are encouraging their use. They also gave me a thorough written report and a link to o buying the prescribed dog food that was 1/3 cheaper than what my vet had quoted.

[quote Veterinari]@Suzi888

What are you wanting from this thread?
To slander a profession and individual posters here then claim that's ok because we're probably lying anyway so why on Earth shouldn't you be rude?
That's decent of you

But you still expect us to listen to your diatribes and answer your very specific clinical concerns, which you're apparently powerless to influence or even discuss with your vet despite being a consumer with the choice to select your own veterinary healthcare provider.

And by the way, no, you aren't just responding to me - I've asked for no information on your pet or it's clinical condition. It's not my concern - yet you continue to post long diatribes. You're clearing just ranting.

God forbid you should take any responsibility for your own decisions or actions.
It's clearly a case of 'someone else's fault'

Must be tough.

I echo the previous vet. I'm glad you aren't my client and I'd suggest that since you have problems with every vet you encounter, maybe there's a common denominator?

Or perhaps you should ask your ethical vet pal who sold her business for millions to the terrible vets she's lumbered you with. After all you seem to think her opinion is worth plenty.
[/quote]
It’s not every vet. It’s one practice, with loads of vets. But it’s the main practice here, with 24hr out of hours. I’d have to stay with them if only for that.
I don’t believe anyone here is a vet because none of you post on those forums. Suggesting you aren’t vets.
I haven’t asked any of you for advice on here, I have google.

I posted separately for advice ages ago and didn’t get one response and neither do others. I genuinely wonder why as you seem to be able to respond to me all the time.

@Suzi888

Because they’re greedy. You can buy the prescription and get them on the internet. I use petdrugsonline.com

They aren't greedy. They can't buy them for the same prices that online pet drugs places sell them for. I'm not sure why they can't buy them from there though. We pay for the prescription for our cats meds and then buy them online. Even with the prescription cost it's much cheaper than buying through our vet.

I don’t believe anyone here is a vet because none of you post on those forums. Suggesting you aren’t vets.

I posted separately for advice ages ago and didn’t get one response and neither do others. I genuinely wonder why as you seem to be able to respond to me all the time

@Suzzi888 I'm not a vet but I can only assume you are here to wind up the vets either that or a bit dim Obviously you're not going to get a diagnosis for your animal by posting in a parenting forum. This alone shows that you don't have a clue of the nuances of running a veterinary practice. Blame the big corporates buying up individual independent practices for millions, but to blame vets as a profession is ridiculous.

Of course, if you don't like it, you could set up on your own. Let me know if you need help finding university courses (you'll need A/A* in science A levels, and it takes five years to qualify). Unfortunately, unless you want to work for one of the big corporates, as well as student loans to pay off you'll also need premises and the ability to pay for equipment, insurance, staff and drugs. Good luck, do let us know how you get on.

I have seen close up the blood, sweat and tears that goes in to being a vet, particularly an independent one. It consumes a whole family life and my relatives suffered by being available to the general public all hours of day or night. I'm not posting again because you haven't bothered to research what you are spouting about and seem to get a kick of riling people who are trying to help all our animals when they could be having a much easier life for much more money.

My old dog used to have Vetoryl for cushings. I’d pay £18 for a 3 month prescription from my vet and then get it online. £170 per month from my vet or £65 per month online.

I’d love to have supported my vet more and buy through them. I accept it’s going to be more expensive and they need to put a mark up on it, but I just couldn’t justify over £100 a month more

I did baulk at the £35 they wanted to charge me for a 50ml bottle of hibiscrub though - I accidentally ordered a 5 litre bottle for less than than when my horse had an injury and they got very shirty with me when I said I didn’t need it as I already had some - told me it was the wrong sort and I needed to buy a special dog type - that’s the only time I’ve ever really felt they were taking the piss