Fear Aggressive Dog

[Delatron]

Our Labrador is 2 years old. He’s always been quite a nervous dog but he was attacked quite a few times as a puppy and is now fear reactive around many dogs, especially on lead.

We were working with a behaviourist on other issues but has anyone had any luck using a behaviourist for this issue? I just can’t see how they can help if he’s fundamentally scared of other dogs?

We were making some progress then an off lead husky bothered him and he went for him. He has a vicious growl and looks like he wants to bite the other dog but never actually does. I guess he’s just trying to make the other dog go away. It looks and sounds awful though.

After another incident today. He was on lead and a massive Doberman bounded up. Cue lots of noise and aggression. I’m so cross that the owner allowed it but this seems par for the course? He just glared at me and I ended up apologising (alone in the woods I didn’t want a confrontation with a man). I used to never let my dog approach off leads dogs but we’ve had 4 come up to him in one walk today. He’s stressed now and over his threshold.

Should I muzzle him due to other people’s off lead dogs coming up to him? He doesn’t actually bite them. I don’t let him off lead around other dogs and his recall is good.

I’m wondering if I’m destined to trudging the pavements with him just to avoid bouncy off lead dogs!

Oh I'm in the same boat and you're not going to like my advice, My Ddog was attacked as a puppy and is now 11 years old. I walk him at 5.30 in the morning because we get the world to ourself for an hour.

I have the same problem with my whippet. I now stick to pavements and rent a dog walking field for half an hour for £5. Unfortunately I think if you go to any off lead area there will be a proportion of people who will let their dogs run up to yours, so I just avoid them now.

Mines the same! 3yo lab.

I’ve had some success with getting him to sit and look at me (with cheese!) and let other dogs pass. But it doesn’t help when fuckwits let their loose dogs approach.

Tbf they never get that close as 40kg of snarling red hellbeast puts them off. But it’s not fun for me or him.

It may be worth muzzle training him - it must be done in a positive manner of course - but it does mean that you would HOPE that people are less inclined to approach you and your dog if they can see he has a muzzle on. A bit of a visual peace of mind for all of you.

Do you have quieter areas and times you could walk him? It's really hard at the moment as everyone has dogs. As @Dnadoon says, it may mean walking at less sociable hours.

Muzzle him now, because not only does it help you control him, it signals to the world that there is a reason for him being muzzled and they may (if you're lucky) be a bit more inclined to hear you when you ask them to call their dogs away from yours.
Try the behaviourist - even if it dials your dog down from 10 to 7 it'll help.
And simple stuff like every time you see another dog, pull out the treatiest of treats and feed them to dog if he sits, that helps a tiny bit too.
If he's not already got a harness, they're good because they're a bit easier to control a dog with (especially the ones with a sternum ring) and you can lift the dog up and back, which you can't really do with a collar (!)
Good luck

Have you heard of the yellow leads/harnesses/etc? Does your dog wear one of those? Then at least other dog owners would know your dog needs space.

Definitely muzzle him. As the previous poster said, at the very least it may stop some people letting their dog run up to yours. I have a similar dog and it's a nightmare because you don't have control over what other people do. I try and set him up for positive experiences as much as possible. It's a balance between exposing him to other dogs/not getting too close/avoiding problems.
My dog was badly bitten by another dog, while on his lead. I had to go to the small claims court to get the other dog's owner to pay the bill. It did go my way in the end but it would have been much clearer cut if mine was wearing a muzzle (he said mine attacked his first. It didn't, he was on my lead, by my side, when the other dog ran over).

To be honest, the only real successes that I have seen with this is where you can safely introduce a "support dog" - one that is incredibly well socialised and trained, so that it knows how to interpret the situation and act accordingly. My own dog won't ever bound up to another dog, he may approach if I allow it, but by using a proper "dog handshake" - assessing the situation, the other dogs reactions and backing off if the other dog doesn't reciprocate correctly. So he's actually something of a hit with other dogs who suffer from anxiety as they can feel confident around him, even if they aren't always confident with other dogs. If he's got good recall and the right circumstances with another dog, he certainly could learn to overcome it - but it does need to be in a controlled environment, and not just any old dog bounding over to him. The fact he is on the lead will probably make him worse, not better - many dogs are even more fear aggressive on the lead that they are off it.

I am wondering if there is anyone around you who does small group work, or is able to get you some "dog on dog" work?

TBH, I wouldn't muzzle him because I would worry that not being able to defend himself would make him more afraid and more increase the problem you are having.

I find that if the other dog is off lead, letting your own dog off may help him realise he can move away from the other dog.

Do you have any friends with friendly low energy dogs that you can meet up with in neutral environment and help him build his confidence.

Alternatively, and I've done this, I walk your dog in a busy dog walking environment but where everyone gets there dogs on leads and just get him used to walking past dogs without any negative experiences?

A qualified behaviourist should be able to help the whole situation. So how to avoid the dogs approaching, how to change your dogs emotions, how to relax and stimulate your dog apart from walks etc.

There is no "magic" cure and it may well be that some dogs are never happy with dogs up close but that is ine as the behaviourist will be able to give you ways that work for both you and your dog.

Yes do muzzle train BUT the best thing is to prevent your dog from being put into the situations that make him react. He sounds like a star for just making a noise et when he meets pushy dogs however it would be better or him if he did not have to encounter them at all.

Being your dogs advocate maybe hard but your behaviourist will give your simple but effective tools to prevent some of these encounters.

The less opportunities you dog has to feel bad when he meets dogs the more change there is that he wil be able to relax.

Thanks all. So much good advice.

I was thinking today to get a yellow lead/harness. I do like his harness though so wondering if there’s a yellow coat or something that could go over it?

He isn’t like this with all dogs and that is why we were making progress. He does have some doggy friends who he’ll happily run around and play with with no issues.

He’s probably better off lead but I’m so worried that if he attacks off lead then that is my fault whereas when he’s on lead that should in theory be a sign for other owners to call their dogs away. Though most don’t!!

I’ll consider the muzzle. Yes it would signal to others to avoid. I worry it may make him more nervous though?

I think for now I’ll have to walk at anti social times 😣. I’ll avoid the woods as I think it’s especially bad for dogs just appearing out of nowhere.

It’s just so frustrating and stressful. I did hire a field a while ago but the nearest one is quite a drive away it takes such a chunk out of my day.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

Re the muzzle dont just put it on when he is going into busy dog areas as yes that will make him more nervous. It will be the cue to him that other dogs are around.

If he likes footballs, a great game to play is him pushing the football with his muzzle on - many dogs love this and keeps the muzzle as a positive assocation. Play the football game at home and out and about.

The behaviourist I was working with does do a reactive dog session with a support dog.

It’s just so hit and miss which dogs he takes issue with.

@PollyRoulson you are right I need to be his advocate. I think I’m walking in the wrong areas. We walk down narrow paths with fencing/wire each side. He can’t get away if a dog comes up. I try and put myself between him and the dog. I try to pull him away (but this I think increases stress)

@user08362683738 yes I think I need to go back to feeding him lots of treats every time we see another dog. We were doing this and he improved so then I stopped.

Thanks @PollyRoulson I’ll try that with the muzzle. And make sure he has a positive association with it.

Just had my unsocialiaed ddog (dpuppy last February..) to a trainer.. She said it takes 6 weeks to break a habit. I took great note of busy walking times where I live and the what routes to avoid such ddogs. Found a great route and ddog is very unstressed - not a huge amount of ddogs but enough for her to be interested in but not too many to be anxious and snarly!
We have also found a field to rent..... Can't wait for that!

One of the first things your behaviourist should teach you with a reactive dog is "Lets go". So basically at home walk with your dog and do a very quick about turn reward your dog on the turn. Make it fun, make it snappy, make it a game. Your behaviourist will take to your about your leg position and hand postion on the lead etc and timing.

But the idea is that lets go is the best fun game. In reality you can use it when you see a dog approaching and then the dog approaching measn the fun game starts and you move away from your dog.

Your dog starts to relax you get out of trouble and all is good with the world

Also the "Look at that" game this is encouraging the dog to look at other dogs and reward. Many people get their dogs to look at them. If you think about it, you are terrified of something and told not to look at it this just increases the anxiety but looking at it and getting cheese will bring down stress levels. (if you have enough distance).

She may also be doing BAT?

Can I join in please? We took our new dog out today and she tried to kill everybody!

This is all very useful.

I think I was doing ‘let’s go’ wrong! Massively stressed, yanking on the lead whilst dog freezes. Looking at other things and rewarding, quick turn is good advice.

I’ll get back in touch with the behaviourist as we were working on resource guarding last time! So many issues 😭

If your dog does not actually bite i wouldn't muzzle, at least not until you've had chance to introduce the muzzle in a positive way which can take a long time. Otherwise it can contribute to trigger stacking.

I think a big yellow coat that says NO DOGS or I NEED SPACE on it would be a good idea and hopefully keep people from allowing their 'friendly' (untrained) dogs to approach.

LAT works really well. You should make sure you're always working within the dog's comfort zone, more distance is better for faster progress, the best place to work is where the dog can observe the trigger but not feel at all threatened by it. This might be quite a large distance. Parks where dogs are supposed to be on leads are a good place to train as you get repeated training opportunities but it's a nice big open space so you can create distance as needed.

The other dog's body language can contribute a lot to your own dog's reaction, quite a few dogs give off silent warning body language (stare/tense/upright tail) which their owners don't recognise and then wonder why other dogs are reacting to theirs. Avoid this type of dog completely rather than using them for LAT at first as the distance required will be much greater. The best ones to work with at first are dogs that are super relaxed and not really interested in yours.

A lot of reactive dogs struggle to disengage so teaching default behaviours to look at you (basically, reward your dog whenever they choose to look at you of their own volition) can be helpful. I prefer a combo of LAT plus default checkins to a more operant model where the dog's supposed to ignore from the beginning. As Polly pointed out this can be very scary for the dog and often they want to check the trigger rather than ignore it completely. LAT helps to change the dog's emotional response to a trigger and the default checkin helps to break the staring cycle that can sometimes happen.

Distraction might work.

Distraction might work.

Argh and again the problems you are facing is because of dicks who can't or won't control their bloody dogs. I wouldn't muzzle op as if that doberman would have turned your dog would have gotten really injured and had no chance of defending himself. If someone cannot control their dog and allows it to go up to an dog on a lead then it serves them right if they have to fork out for vets bills if I am honest. I understand accidents happen, but for you to apologise is just not right.

I would go down the yellow/warning lead route, but tbh not many people where I live would take notice of that.

I had a reactive lurcher before, boxer cross greyhound collie and very strong. We worked with an extremely good specialised behaviourist for over a year. In the end I couldn't manage and the dog went to live with a friend who lives in the middle of no where, he's much happier as he's never put over threshold because there's nothing around to trigger him. So unfortunately my experience is that you can't train this issue out and it therefore comes down to whether you can manage it. I would absolutely muzzle your dog both to prevent accidents and also to act as a visible warning to idiots like the ones you've described letting dogs come up. Also look at the yellow dog warning system and get a yellow bandana or lead to act as a warning. Don't be afraid to shout at people that your dog is not friendly. Feisty fido is a good book and look up BAT training too. Good luck op!

I had a reactive lurcher before, boxer cross greyhound collie and very strong. We worked with an extremely good specialised behaviourist for over a year. In the end I couldn't manage and the dog went to live with a friend who lives in the middle of no where, he's much happier as he's never put over threshold because there's nothing around to trigger him. So unfortunately my experience is that you can't train this issue out and it therefore comes down to whether you can manage it. I would absolutely muzzle your dog both to prevent accidents and also to act as a visible warning to idiots like the ones you've described letting dogs come up. Also look at the yellow dog warning system and get a yellow bandana or lead to act as a warning. Don't be afraid to shout at people that your dog is not friendly. Feisty fido is a good book and look up BAT training too. Good luck op!

Also see if there are any secure dog walk fields you can rent near you. Or a boring industrial estate where no one else walks!