Fear Aggressive Dog

[Delatron]

Our Labrador is 2 years old. He’s always been quite a nervous dog but he was attacked quite a few times as a puppy and is now fear reactive around many dogs, especially on lead.

We were working with a behaviourist on other issues but has anyone had any luck using a behaviourist for this issue? I just can’t see how they can help if he’s fundamentally scared of other dogs?

We were making some progress then an off lead husky bothered him and he went for him. He has a vicious growl and looks like he wants to bite the other dog but never actually does. I guess he’s just trying to make the other dog go away. It looks and sounds awful though.

After another incident today. He was on lead and a massive Doberman bounded up. Cue lots of noise and aggression. I’m so cross that the owner allowed it but this seems par for the course? He just glared at me and I ended up apologising (alone in the woods I didn’t want a confrontation with a man). I used to never let my dog approach off leads dogs but we’ve had 4 come up to him in one walk today. He’s stressed now and over his threshold.

Should I muzzle him due to other people’s off lead dogs coming up to him? He doesn’t actually bite them. I don’t let him off lead around other dogs and his recall is good.

I’m wondering if I’m destined to trudging the pavements with him just to avoid bouncy off lead dogs!

I think a big yellow coat that says I NEED SPACE on it would be a good idea.

I might get matching coats for both of us 😂.

I can really sympathise OP. Our rescue is nervous reactive with off lead dogs that are in his space. I set him up for success by doing walks in quieter areas, lots of ‘let’s go’ and ‘good’ when he looks at other dogs and isn’t reactive. He’s doing really well with these simple steps. I really feel for you as it’s other people’s out of control dogs that are the problem- especially with the increase in adolescent dogs and owners on their phones and not engaging with their dog at all! Good luck 😊

I think a big yellow coat that says I NEED SPACE on it would be a good idea.

I might get matching coats for both of us 😂.

I had a reactive lurcher before, boxer cross greyhound collie and very strong. We worked with an extremely good specialised behaviourist for over a year. In the end I couldn't manage and the dog went to live with a friend who lives in the middle of no where, he's much happier as he's never put over threshold because there's nothing around to trigger him. So unfortunately my experience is that you can't train this issue out and it therefore comes down to whether you can manage it. I would absolutely muzzle your dog both to prevent accidents and also to act as a visible warning to idiots like the ones you've described letting dogs come up. Also look at the yellow dog warning system and get a yellow bandana or lead to act as a warning. Don't be afraid to shout at people that your dog is not friendly. Feisty fido is a good book and look up BAT training too. Good luck op!

I was thinking today to get a yellow lead/harness. I do like his harness though so wondering if there’s a yellow coat or something that could go over it?

There seems to be loads of different places doing yellow things when you google. I was looking yesterday and found these (but no idea if they do coats).

www.etsy.com/uk/shop/TheHuggableDog
www.bellascollars.co.uk/collections/harness
Boo

I was thinking today to get a yellow lead/harness. I do like his harness though so wondering if there’s a yellow coat or something that could go over it?

There seems to be loads of different places doing yellow things when you google. I was looking yesterday and found these (but no idea if they do coats).

www.etsy.com/uk/shop/TheHuggableDog
www.bellascollars.co.uk/collections/harness
Boo

www.yellowdoguk.co.uk/store/ Here you go OP

www.yellowdoguk.co.uk/store/ Here you go OP

Also see if there are any secure dog walk fields you can rent near you. Or a boring industrial estate where no one else walks!

Thanks all. Thanks for the link @MyHusbandTheIdiot I have ordered yellow banana so we’ll see if that works. And shouting ‘he’s not friendly’ at the owners rather than a lame ‘he’s a bit scared’.

Will look in to LAT therapy.

He’s a funny one because he’s actually fine with lots of dogs so it’s hard to work out the distance thing. Our biggest issue is the dogs running up to him. He would walk past dogs ok and he never barks or reacts unless they are full on sniffing him and not leaving him alone. Some dogs he has no issue with so there’s a real dog language going on that I don’t understand.

It’s funny you mention an industrial park @Orangeinmybluelightcup I spent a lot of time last lockdown when he as bad traipsing round the industrial estate near us. It was such a low point! He’s an energetic lab and need to be running around so if we’re just doing on lead walks it’s so much further to tire him out. Agree it’s a necessity at times. We’d just made so much progress until recently. I’ll be sad to go back to the industrial estate!

I’m so conflicted about the muzzle. He never actually bites. He just growls and sounds vicious and looks like he is going for the other dog but never does any harm. I can always grab his harness. It’s just stressful. The muzzle could be a deterrent to others though. I think I’ll try the reactive bandana first.

At times I have thought he’d just be happier on a farm by himself with different owners. It’s so busy with dogs round here I spend the whole walk dodging dogs. Today I was practically cracking through undergrowth trying to escape an off lead dog that was just following us and barking.

I guess lockdown has exasperated this. So many people with zero control over their dogs.

The field option is just too far away. I’ll see if I can find one closer.

@ferretface yes I think the body language is the issue. He does also freeze and can’t be moved away. Lots of staring. He seems to know that some dogs are completely fine and non threatening. It’s so hard to predict how he’ll react.

Crawling through undergrowth not cracking!!

We started having this issue with Ddog when she was about 9. We did try working with a behaviourist but unfortunately without success. We think it was all started by a daytime firework set off in the park, which meant she had become terrified of leaving the house and therefore aggressive to dogs, people, the lot.

What helped in the end was anxiety tablets recommended by the vets. They're herbal so she's not sedated or anything but she's a completely different dog. Now she's calmed down we're able to use some of the techniques from the behaviourist, which didn't sink in at all before because she was so on edge.

I don't think they're necessarily suitable for all problems but thought it might be worth mentioning in case it was helpful. They're from VetPro.

Hope it gets easier for you OP, having to do something every day that is stressful for both you and the dog is awful, we were tearing our hair out!

Thanks for the recommendation @TheCheeseBadge I think they are worth a try. We are off to the vets next week so will see if they have any.

It’s just the opposite of what I thought having a dog would be. I imagined I’m galloping through fields for miles. Enjoyable walks etc.

Every walk is a stress. Today I had a little cry in the woods after the Doberman incident. The way the man looked at me and it was his bloody fault!! Argh

Him galloping through the fields. I don’t gallop much!! 🤣

My reactive dog defo had issues with particular types of dog, and my dog I have now has a bit of learnt reactivity I think from the previous dog that only comes out with spaniels!

With the staring behavior and almost locking in on target, where they might the kick off if /when you do tear them away, I think teaching a strong 'watch me' or 'look' may help. You can teach this using a clicker, start at home, you're aiming to click and reward eye contact with you. Practice your timing on your own, drop a pencil and click when it hits the floor. Then on walks, take a clicker and valuable treats, click and reward for flickers of eye contact. The idea being the dog will clock the trigger, then when you say watch me, glance to you for click and reward, you can then follow with the let's go that was mentioned up thread if you need to get out of there due to high trigger or stacking, or use watch me to get past the trigger. I'm sure the feisty fido book explains.

The other option is to train look and click and reward looking at the target. Talk to your behaviourist about which might work best.

Just to add that I'm in a very similar position with my fear reactive dog - she does wear a muzzle because she did unfortunately bite another dog (luckily not too bad and I covered the vets bill). However, I haven't found the muzzle to make any difference at all to people letting their dogs come up and approach mine - some people just will not accept that they should keep their dog away. I literally do everything - muzzle, yellow lead, asking very nicely to please keep the dog away - and they still let their dog approach!

So I find quiet places, always keep alert to what's around us and in a very upbeat way keep a distance wherever possible and treat when we are in view of another dog. Carrying high value treats became a bit of a faff especially with a muzzle but luckily my dog loves a bum scratch so that's what she gets instead :)

Oh and doberman man is an idiot!

@Delatron

Him galloping through the fields. I don’t gallop much!! 🤣

Maybe if you get the issues sorted you can both gallop through the fields 😂

I have a lead reactive dog.
When we started he couldn’t even be within sight of another dog without kicking off.
Read up on the ‘look at me’ method.

What has worked really well is basically dogs=treats so anytime he sees a dog, you bombard him with treats.
If he’s too worked up to eat the treats then you are too close to the other dog and need to get further away.

We often to go local parks, armed with bags of cheese/chicken/sausage and sit down in a corner. Then every time he sees a dog, give him treats.

Eventually he will automatically look at you for a treat when you see a dog.

We can now pass within 1m of another dog with him focussed on me and the treat rather than the dog.

Would a bright colour dogmatic help? I use one to control my jumpy Newfoundland puppy, but people often react like she has a muzzle on and keep their dogs away. So it could give you more control and signal others to keep their dogs back.

I feel your pain. I have a very reactive, and scared, rescue German Shepherd. Her first two weeks with us, she was attacked on our way back from a walk by two different neighbours' small dogs. She lay on the ground crying while they tried to get her. It was awful. She found her bark a couple of weeks later and sounds like a hellhound now .... much louder and stronger than her size. Underneath it she's still scared though.
Whats working for us is distraction. After eight months of this, she knows that a strange dog means treats. She'll see a dog, stiffen the ears etc. then look at me for a treat. She'll sit and give the dog a quick shoulder glance and back to me. If there are a few dogs, I get her to lie down then sit up...basically keep her busy for a few minutes.
It's still not perfect...she'll react badly to maybe one in five, but it's getting better.

My dog is nervous of dogs that are giving out either playful teen signals or they get in her face. Took me a long time to work out what it was.

A dog that doesn't get close and wants to play chase utterly fine. Big bouncy lab she tries to get in there first.

Gosh. I do not understand people who happily let their dogs approach others when clearly owner is trying to manage a reactive dog. It’s a big fear of mine that my dog will be snapped at and become reactive herself. How can they be so sure their own dog will respond in a friendly non reactive way. So strange

Sorry - in case that wasn’t clear. I am also agreeing Doberman owner was out of order