My dog has bitten DD. Help

[rottielove]

He's never been aggressive to people before, let alone DD. I left them alone for two minute when I went to answer the door, I come back and DD is hysterical as she has been bitten on her arm. I don't think the dog meant it as no skin has been broken and he's a Rottweiler so if he really wanted to hurt her he could have. But like I say he is normally so good with him, I didn't think twice about leaving them for afew seconds. DD is 6, dog is 10., could it be dementia? Not sure where to go from here.

@merrymelody

"My daughter loves our ddog. I have spoken to her about the incident and tried to explain things. She isn't afraid."

If that's the case, why are you concerned OP? I haven't RTFT so sorry if I missed something.

I was in shock.

So every time you go to the toilet, every time you answer the front door, every time you go to make a cup of tea you are going to need to separate your child and your dog? For years?

@ofwarren

So every time you go to the toilet, every time you answer the front door, every time you go to make a cup of tea you are going to need to separate your child and your dog? For years?

If that's what I gotta do then that's what I gotta do. My rottie is ten, he's reaching the end of his lifespan to be completely honest although rather not think about that.

They don't need to be kept apart. The gate is to provide a safe place for the dog whilst I leave them unsupervised.

If the dog needs a 'safe place' then you are saying they need to be kept apart, surely? If you could trust the dog in the room with your child, they could be left.

I'm being repetitive, but if you have to have dog gates and separation etc., the dog is really not a family pet.

I guess what really surprises me is that you seem to be more concerned about your dog.

Didn't the dog respond to the noise of the doorbell?It would be very unusual for any dog not to wake up when someone is at the door.

Anything that couldn’t be left alone with my child for a minute, whether it’s man woman or beast, would not be in my house in the first place.

@Skyliner001

You're amazing OP. Glad you are so level headed, unlike some of the previous posters 😑

Completely agree @rottielove anyone who knows anything about dogs (and families) would agree with what you are doing. I've had the pleasure of living with both a rottie and a bullmastiff x rottie and they were both the most delightful dogs. People on MN no naff all about dogs. It's so irritating.

Hope your rottie is ok op, never met an aggressive one personally. I think they are misunderstood. Ive always had dogs, currently have 3 and the youngest is a 9 month old jack russell. Horror of horrors apparently to some mumsnetters lol! The eldest is a grumpy 14 year old border. I wondered if your dog would accept a crate at 10, it would just be his safe place and your dc could be asked not to disturb him when he was in it. Just an idea

@PlanDeRaccordement

I know dogs. Have had them as pets both before and after having children. I also love animals, including dogs, so not a dog hater.

In this case, the family dog, a rottweiler...so a known aggressive breed, has as soon as the mother left the room, bit her 6yr old child. The OP said it was barely a minute because she went to get a package from front door.

Sorry, but it’s a bite because it left a bruise. That’s an injury. Don’t minimise it. And I don’t agree that because it could have been a worse bite than it was, that this is evidence that the dog didn’t mean to bite.

It’s no coincidence that aggressive dogs assert themselves on weaker beings when an alpha has left the room. The dog probably woke when the door bell/knocker went, and was not startled by the child but took the opportunity to assert dominance over the child. The dog is literally telling the child that it ranks higher in the pack than the child does. This is not good. Especially since it appears there will be no consequence, the dog will think it is acceptable to be aggressive towards the child. There will be another bite. It’s just a question of when. The OP is risking that next bite being much worse or a full blown attack.

It’s not a risk I would take. And I’m not advising PTS, but rehoming the dog with a family with no children. I had to do this with a dog of ours when she snapped at one of my young DC. My DC wasn’t even bitten...but I had witnessed the event and saw it for the warming sign it was. I think because OP didn’t see the dog bite her DD, it is out of sight, and out of mind. Less of a problem. The steps taken are not going to be sustainable. Dog and child will be in close proximity again and even if you are there supervising, you cannot move fast enough to prevent another bite.

The breed makes a difference, when looking at statistics, Rottweilers are 10x more likely to maul or kill a child than the average. They are the second deadliest dog breed. I know whether a dog attacks and mauls or kills a child is influenced by environment and type of owners/home but with statistics like that, the observed deadliness of Rottweilers cannot all be pets of bad owners/abusive homes.

As a prior poster said, who talked about the cases she sees of children needing corrective plastic surgery, most commonly the attacking dogs are historically well behaved dogs from loving homes with good owners. Don’t have the “it can’t happen to my child” mentality. It can and this was a clear warning.

What total rubbish. I've been on a plane but it doesn't make me a mechanic or a pilot. Just because you've owned a few dogs doesn't mean you know what to do when something goes wrong, and quoting nonsense like alpha theory confirms that in my mind. Google alpha theory and dogs and you'll see it's been debunked by the guy who came up with the theory in the first place. Dogs are not trying to be dominant over people. In actual fact, every dog I have ever worked with over the years was doing its damnedest to fit in with people, often putting up for years with ridiculous expectations and handling techniques from clueless owners who don't understand them. It saddens me that people know so little and yet believe they know so much.

If the dog needs a 'safe place' then you are saying they need to be kept apart, surely? If you could trust the dog in the room with your child, they could be left.

ALL dogs should have a safe space they can go to sleep and rest in peace without being disturbed. That could be a crate, a kennel, a bed in the utility room or a quiet area in the kitchen.

Dogs are animals and should ever be trusted 100% no matter how docile they may appear to be. I would also never trust a young child to completely behave themselves around a dog.

Therefore logic dictates that I supervise all interactions and keep them apart when that's impossible for whatever reason.

@Lbnc2021

Anything that couldn’t be left alone with my child for a minute, whether it’s man woman or beast, would not be in my house in the first place.

The you should never have a dog around your child.

Dogs are animals, not robots. None of them can be trusted 100%. Ever. Mine is currently sleeping with his head on my shoulder being very cute. He's never gone to bite anyone or anything abs when my niece visits he sits on her lap for hours.

I'd still never leave them unattended because the potential consequences aren't worth it.

[quote HerMammy]@PlanDeRaccordement
Stop talking utter uneducated crap.
No breed is aggressive, typical MN ignorance.
@rottielove I’d have this deleted, MN love a good froth over any dog that isn’t a cockapoodleydoo; who of course are perfect 🙄[/quote]
Uneducated crap? Really? Perhaps do some reading....some breeds are more likely to attack/bite up to kill than others. If that can’t be called an “aggressive breed” then...wow..someone is either uneducated or in denial of the facts.

“Research from DogsBite.org shows that during the 15-year period from 2005 to 2019, canines killed 521 Americans. Pit bulls and rottweilers accounted for 76% (397) of these deaths (1) During the 20-year government study period of 1979 to 1998,(2) 238 dog bite-related fatalities with breed information was studied. The combination of pit bulls and rottweilers accounted for 50% (120) of these deaths.
This is a 52% increase since the government's last study in this area, which stated two decades ago, "there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities." - Breeds of Dogs Involved in Fatal Human Attacks in the United States Between 1979 and 1998”

References

1. 2019 U.S. Dog Bite Fatality Statistics - DogsBite.org, by DogsBite.org, July 16, 2020.
2. Breeds of Dogs Involved in Fatal Human Attacks in the United States Between 1979 and 1998, by Sacks JJ, Sinclair L, Gilchrist J, Golab GC and Lockwood R, J Am Vet Med Assoc, 2000 Sep 15;217(6):836-40. The combination of pit bulls (76) and rottweilers (44) over this 20-year period includes purebred and crossbred dogs from Table 2 (Page 3).

@sunflowersandbuttercups

If the dog needs a 'safe place' then you are saying they need to be kept apart, surely? If you could trust the dog in the room with your child, they could be left.

ALL dogs should have a safe space they can go to sleep and rest in peace without being disturbed. That could be a crate, a kennel, a bed in the utility room or a quiet area in the kitchen.

Dogs are animals and should ever be trusted 100% no matter how docile they may appear to be. I would also never trust a young child to completely behave themselves around a dog.

Therefore logic dictates that I supervise all interactions and keep them apart when that's impossible for whatever reason.

Well said. Im getting older too and not that keen on noisy children sometimes (not aimed at ops dc) but I can choose not to be around them, a dog needs that too.

The OPs dd was just sitting on the sofa!

I bloody love dogs but Christ what a life if you get bitten by a fucking Rottweiler and are told off for sitting on the sofa.

Stories like this send shivers up my spine. How many more children will be harmed by dogs that live in their own home before this stops?. A 6 year old has absolutely zero chance against a dog of that size and weight - I cannot understand any parent that would put a child at that kind of risk. And for the posters seeking to minimise this or apportion blame the consequences of the dog doing worse next time would be utterly horrific.

@vroominary
You are wrong in saying that dogs are not trying to be dominant over people regarding this specific situation. Yes, in general, most dogs will submit to an adult human but many dogs do try and exert dominance over children. This is a well known fact and why children are disporportionately victims of dog attacks.

Dominance aggression in the home progresses in stages because the owner may not have the understanding or the experience to nip it in the bud. Even if the owner is aware that science classifies the dog as a subspecies of wolf, it does no good to know that the alpha wolf controls his underlings with a stare. Dominant puppies and dominant-aggressive dogs seldom respond to these tactics from two-legged family members who are definitely of another species. In fact, a staring child, for example, may trigger an aggressive response from a dog that has been allowed to bully people and can result in a serious bite attack.

@bunniesanddaisies

The OPs dd was just sitting on the sofa!

I bloody love dogs but Christ what a life if you get bitten by a fucking Rottweiler and are told off for sitting on the sofa.

Yes, but you don't know what happened to cause the bite.

Did DD move and accidentally kick or hurt the dog?
Was the dog startled out of a deep sleep by the doorbell?
Did DD decide to pull the dogs ear or tail to get its attention or to try and get it to play?
Or maybe the dog is genuinely aggressive and therefore a danger.

The point is, children and dogs should never be left unattended because neither can be trusted 100%. You either take your child with you or take the dog with you when you have to leave the room. It's not rocket science. The dog can't bite the child or hurt the child if they're in separate rooms.

Some people think dogs should just put up with all kinds of behaviour from humans and they should just accept it - but what should happen is that animals should be respected and children should be taught how to behave around them - with parental supervision.

If you can't supervise then they should be separated. It won't hurt the dog to be placed in a different room for five minutes, nor will it hurt the child to be left on the sofa without the dog.

Neither do you sunflowers

Poor fucking kid.

@aquamarine1

Stories like this send shivers up my spine. How many more children will be harmed by dogs that live in their own home before this stops?. A 6 year old has absolutely zero chance against a dog of that size and weight - I cannot understand any parent that would put a child at that kind of risk. And for the posters seeking to minimise this or apportion blame the consequences of the dog doing worse next time would be utterly horrific.

The bite occurred because they were left unattended.

I don't trust any child around my dog. I also don't trust my dog around any child so I would never leave them unsupervised.

So we have

A child on the sofa playing

A dog also on the sofa sleeping

A doorbell rings.

How the hell does anyone know this wouldn’t have happened with an adult in the room?

@aquamarine1

Stories like this send shivers up my spine. How many more children will be harmed by dogs that live in their own home before this stops?. A 6 year old has absolutely zero chance against a dog of that size and weight - I cannot understand any parent that would put a child at that kind of risk. And for the posters seeking to minimise this or apportion blame the consequences of the dog doing worse next time would be utterly horrific.

You do realise that this child wasn’t actually bitten dont you? Yes the child suffered a bruise but no broken skin, it’s the equivalent of a human grabbing the child’s arm too hard with their hand when startled. Of course OP should be cautious (and is) but given the size of a Rottweiler if that dog had meant to hurt the child they would have been badly hurt or dead. My large dog has hurt my children by accidentally standing on their feet, scratching them when giving paw and once by catching DDs finger when playing with a rope toy. For me it’s no different to them being hurt playing with a friend. As a one off accident it’s just that, an accident - see if there are lessons to be learned and move on Obviously if a pattern of behaviour emerges then it needs to be taken seriously but a (non) bite from a dog startled awake wouldn’t concern me at all.

I refer you to the title of the thread

I'll never understand why dog haters people who aren't terribly keen on dogs cone to a dog forum..

Because it's not a dog forum, it's a section within a parenting forum and your post came up on active.

I can't believe you left your child alone with a rottweiler. Now you don't know what happened, of course the dog people are very quick to blame the child, how lovely that the dog only bruised her and didn't main her
I'm shocked that anyone would keep a dog that has bitten thier DC.

You do realise that this child wasn’t actually bitten dont you?
Yes the child suffered a bruise but no broken skin, it’s the equivalent of a human grabbing the child’s arm too hard with their hand when startled.

No, no the child WAS bitten. The bite left a bruise. Just because the teeth didn’t cut the skin, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a bite. I’ve never grabbed my child too hard and left a bruise so that is not at all comparable.

Rottweilers can exert pressure through their jaws of twice their body weight and then lock their jaws. Injury through such compression is still very painful and can even result in bones broken without the skin even being broken or scratched.