Told by the farmer to keep dog on a lead?

[mudstuck]

I was walking my dog through a field and the farmer came up on his tractor and complained that he had seen my dog off the lead. There are no sheep or livestock around, and I would always always put her on a lead if I there was any chance of encountering any livestock.I did raise the fact that the field was empty with him and he said there are young pheasants going about... I apologised and agreed to keep her on a lead in future. However on reflection I am wondering if he is in the right to ask that of us? My dog doesn't have a very high prey drive at all and lives happily with three house cats. I don't allow her to chase wildlife although her recall, even though it's good, is not 100% and we have had the very occasional chase of a squirrel or deer. She probably would chase a pheasant if she saw one running away but she would never catch it. What do you think? Like I said I am happy to keep her on a lead just for an easy life. I live close to the farmer and don't want the trouble/conflict. Just wondering who is in the right..

@mudstuck @JaniieJones you’re both vegans right? And if you own dogs do you buy vegan food for them?

This. Come on now, do you use any animal products in your life?

If so, you are utter hypocrites.

I'm not sure of the vegan ethical position on keeping pets, but I rather thought that most vegans have ethical concerns about domesticating animals for human pleasure.

'This. Come on now, do you use any animal products in your life?'
I certainly dont eat them and having a well loved and cared for domestic pet does not equate to farming livestock and the horrible cruelty involved.

Anyway, you're derailing this thread perhaps you could start another on the cruelty of livestock farming and the hypocrisy of farmers protecting birds so they can have fun shooting them? The thread is about a bossy farmer having a go at someone legally using a right of way with a dog under control.

@JaniieJones

'Kinda sounds like you have a problem with livestock farming? '

I do have a problem with livestock farming but I have a bigger problem with arsey farmers having a go at someone legally using a public right of way, allegedly to protect their pheasants so they can shoot them. The op's dog was under control.

But it’s completely within the farmers rights to expect you to keep the dog close to you on the path, on a lead if he requires. It doesn’t matter whether you disagree with what he farms. (and I agree with you, although the pheasant probably has a better life and quicker/kinder death than most other farm animals). This is why we fence most of our footpaths ofc nowadays, so ignorant people can’t roam all over, nor their dogs!

a bossy farmer having a go at someone legally using a right of way with a dog under control

It's been established by many posters - citing legal and local government sources like the actual LAW - that the dog was not on a lead, and that this is required in Scotland between April & July.

And the OP says nothing about the farmer being "bossy" - her OP simply says complained that he had seen my dog off the lead

As @Scrowy says, the misunderstanding of farmers by some PP on this thread is somewhat flabbergasting. And I'd add the resentment towards farmers is a bit mind-blowing.

Setting aside the fact that farmers feed us - whom do you think keeps the "countryside" in its loveliness so we have paths to walk on and vistas to enjoy? Most of our island looks the way it is because of human impact on the landscape, and most of that is via farming.

You think I’m unhinged and unkind OP? Has anyone got a spare mirror? Asking for a friend

The hypocrisy on here is mind blowing. I’m not the only one who’s asked but I’ll try again. What do you feed your ‘vegan dogs’ on? If it’s meat you are utter hypocrites and if it’s kale and lentils you are a cruel owner. So which is it and why are you so reluctant to answer a simple question to back up your inane arguments?

@mudstuck

Hi *@sunflowersandbuttercups* I'm still waiting for you to show me the law about keeping my dog on a lead during bird nesting season in Scotland? Seeing how you were so vocal about how I'd broken the law and that...

www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2003/2/section/10

The Scottish Outdoor Access Code, which is defined in Chapter 3 of the Land Reform (Scotland) 2003 Act states that:
During the Ground Nesting bird breeding season (usually April-July) keep your dog on a short lead or close at heel in areas such as moorland, forests, grasslands, loch shores and the sea shore to avoid disturbing birds that nest on or near the ground

While Chapter 2 of the Act states here www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2003/2/section/2:

(1)A person has access rights only if they are exercised responsibly.

(2)In determining whether access rights are exercised responsibly a person is to be presumed to be exercising access rights responsibly if they are exercised so as not to cause unreasonable interference with any of the rights (whether access rights, rights associated with the ownership of land or any others) of any other person, but—
(a)a person purporting to exercise access rights who, at the same time—
(i)engages in any of the conduct within section 9 below or within any byelaw made under section 12(1)(a)(i) below; or
(ii)does anything which undoes anything done by Scottish Natural Heritage under section 29 below,is to be taken as not exercising those rights responsibly; and
(b)regard is to be had to whether the person exercising or purporting to exercise access rights is, at the same time—
(i)disregarding the guidance on responsible conduct set out in the Access Code and incumbent on persons exercising access rights; or
(ii)disregarding any request included or which might reasonably be implied in anything done by Scottish Natural Heritage under section 29 below.
(3)In this section the references to the responsible exercise of access rights are references to the exercise of these rights in a way which is lawful and reasonable and takes proper account of the interests of others and of the features of the land in respect of which the rights are exercised.

So yes, if you don't have your dog on a short lead during nesting season, you are breaking the law as you are no longer deemed to be exercising your right to access responsibly.

And you feed your dog on? It’s not a hard question, well not for most people 😂

'What do you feed your ‘vegan dogs’ on? If it’s meat you are utter hypocrites and if it’s kale and lentils you are a cruel owner. '

Dog food . Our vets doesn't encourage a vegetarian diet for dogs strangely enough. There's a difference between dogs eating meat and usually obese people stuffing their faces with bacon sandwiches and sausage rolls when there's a whole array of other choices in tescos to eat nutritiously and healthily.

I've nothing against some limited farming to feed domestic pets but not the widescale cruel industry in place so you can have a cheeseburger.

'During the Ground Nesting bird breeding season (usually April-July) keep your dog on a short lead or close at heel in areas such as moorland, forests, grasslands, loch shores and the sea shore to avoid disturbing birds that nest on or near the ground'

Please note the very relevant or close at heel.

@JaniieJones

'What do you feed your ‘vegan dogs’ on? If it’s meat you are utter hypocrites and if it’s kale and lentils you are a cruel owner. '

Dog food . Our vets doesn't encourage a vegetarian diet for dogs strangely enough. There's a difference between dogs eating meat and usually obese people stuffing their faces with bacon sandwiches and sausage rolls when there's a whole array of other choices in tescos to eat nutritiously and healthily.

I've nothing against some limited farming to feed domestic pets but not the widescale cruel industry in place so you can have a cheeseburger.

WTAF did you just write? You are happy for livestock to be killed to feed your dog? But people aren't allowed to eat meat? Unhinged idea or what?

You then tried fat shaming me. Sorry that won't work because I am not fat, and saying that I eat cheeseburgers. I have never in my life eaten, nor plan to eat a cheeseburger.

I've never read so many pathetically untrue lies in one post. You have some sort of problem, trust me, you really need help because your post shows a total and utter lack of logic and a belief in some sort of fantasy world where animals are slaughtered to feed your dog which you say is fine and not at all cruel, but that human beings are not allowed to eat meat because that is cruel.

Mince is thick. Vegan mince appears to be thicker and more hypocritical.

I've nothing against some limited farming to feed domestic pets but not the widescale cruel industry in place so you can have a cheeseburger.

Ah. So you're a hypocrite. All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.

@JaniieJones have you looked into insect protein dog food? That might be more in line with your ethics.
I personally think if you are opposed to farming you shouldn’t have a dog as it’s almost impossible to look after your dog properly without funding the livestock industry. Having a dog is a choice which results in the slaughter of other animals for its food, if you’re opposed to animal slaughter/judge others for eating meat why have a dog?

@JaniieJones

'What do you feed your ‘vegan dogs’ on? If it’s meat you are utter hypocrites and if it’s kale and lentils you are a cruel owner. '

Dog food . Our vets doesn't encourage a vegetarian diet for dogs strangely enough. There's a difference between dogs eating meat and usually obese people stuffing their faces with bacon sandwiches and sausage rolls when there's a whole array of other choices in tescos to eat nutritiously and healthily.

I've nothing against some limited farming to feed domestic pets but not the widescale cruel industry in place so you can have a cheeseburger.

Utterly clueless

derxa, I admire your politeness 🤣

Limited farming to feed domestic pets is absolutely not viable-and the result would be the same:animals would die for human pleasure. The only difference is that the animals we keep for pleasure would be eating the animals, instead of humans directly eating them.
Sorry completely derailing the thread

@LeopardSheet

Limited farming to feed domestic pets is absolutely not viable-and the result would be the same:animals would die for human pleasure. The only difference is that the animals we keep for pleasure would be eating the animals, instead of humans directly eating them. Sorry completely derailing the thread

Not so much derailing as pointing out facts, actual facts rather than weird fantasies. I think some posters need a dose of sanity!!

Although completely off topic it is totally illogical to be ok with livestock farming for animal food but not human food.

Animal food uses the same food supply chains as human food. You are keeping the same farmers, animal transporters and abattoirs in business for your dog food as I am for my cheese burger.

The growth of domestic pets is causing sustainability issues world wide.

www.senseandsustainability.net/2019/10/22/11276/

I am okay with owning pets but then I'm not lecturing others about their own meat intake.

"Cats and dogs constitute about 25–30% of the environmental impacts from animal production in terms of the use of land, water, fossil fuel, phosphate, and biocides.”

It isn't just the risk to live stock and birds. Your dog has no right to be off the footpath, you don't get to exercise your dog wherever you fancy.

I've nothing against some limited farming to feed domestic pets but not the widescale cruel industry in place so you can have a cheeseburger.

Why is killing animals for pet food less cruel than killing them for human food?

How on earth did this thread descend into a meat eaters Vs vegans debate?

I mean if your going to get on about sustainability and carbon footprint, neither the meat industry nor the soy industry is sustainable. Therefore, veganism is no more sustainable than meat eating, and soy cannot possibly be vegan given the amount of deforestation that occurs to farm soy.

@Gobbeldegook

How on earth did this thread descend into a meat eaters Vs vegans debate?

I mean if your going to get on about sustainability and carbon footprint, neither the meat industry nor the soy industry is sustainable. Therefore, veganism is no more sustainable than meat eating, and soy cannot possibly be vegan given the amount of deforestation that occurs to farm soy.

It has well and truly descended but oh well.

I’m not a vegan, but the fact is that vegan Ian is much more sustainable than eating meat-there have been many many studies on this and it is a well recognised fact. Also, 80% of the worlds soy is fed to livestock which then waste energy as they grow. Humans eating soy directly instead of growing it to feed animals would be much more sustainable than humans eating soy fed animals.

Veganism not vegan Ian. Ironically I do actually know 2 vegans called Ian.

We very much do get to exercise your dog EXACTLY where you fancy as long as you aren't breaking any laws in so doing. That's how it works in a safe, free country where you can do anything you like as long as it isn't prohibited in law. It isn't a police state, nor is it a lawless place with vigilante farmers roaming around shooting pet dogs at a whim. The farmer was reasonable, the OP was reasonable and in the OP example that is exactly how things do and should work.

I’m not a vegan, but the fact is that vegan Ian is much more sustainable than eating meat-there have been many many studies on this and it is a well recognised fact. Also, 80% of the worlds soy is fed to livestock which then waste energy as they grow. Humans eating soy directly instead of growing it to feed animals would be much more sustainable than humans eating soy fed animals. My sheep eat grass/silage

@derxa

I’m not a vegan, but the fact is that vegan Ian is much more sustainable than eating meat-there have been many many studies on this and it is a well recognised fact. Also, 80% of the worlds soy is fed to livestock which then waste energy as they grow. Humans eating soy directly instead of growing it to feed animals would be much more sustainable than humans eating soy fed animals. My sheep eat grass/silage

And my sheep eat grass, hay and haylage, so grass basically! I’ve yet to meet a human who can digest grass, or a dog come to think of it. Sheep are great at it though and some breeds can be kept on high rocky ground with thin soil and sparse sward.

I hasten to add that I’m not trying to teach you this derxa 🤣 There is so much nonsense spouted by the entitled ones though that it brings out my inner didact 😳