Told by the farmer to keep dog on a lead?

[mudstuck]

I was walking my dog through a field and the farmer came up on his tractor and complained that he had seen my dog off the lead. There are no sheep or livestock around, and I would always always put her on a lead if I there was any chance of encountering any livestock.I did raise the fact that the field was empty with him and he said there are young pheasants going about... I apologised and agreed to keep her on a lead in future. However on reflection I am wondering if he is in the right to ask that of us? My dog doesn't have a very high prey drive at all and lives happily with three house cats. I don't allow her to chase wildlife although her recall, even though it's good, is not 100% and we have had the very occasional chase of a squirrel or deer. She probably would chase a pheasant if she saw one running away but she would never catch it. What do you think? Like I said I am happy to keep her on a lead just for an easy life. I live close to the farmer and don't want the trouble/conflict. Just wondering who is in the right..

@RunningFromInsanity

Public footpath? No law about keeping dog on a lead. If it’s under close control and not trampling this crops then he has no right to ask you, and definitely no right to shoot the dog.

Yes but the dog does need to stay on the footpath at all times and not stray into the field or hedgerow so must walk to heel as if it were on a lead anyway.

*own

@Sitdowncupoftea OP is in Scotland.
They're are different access laws there.

[quote mudstuck]@MiaChia

Wow, I am definitely against all forms of animal cruelty. Which is why the thought of a farmer shooting a dog that has done fuck all upsets me so much. I don't even allow my dog to chase squirrels when other owners seem to think it's fine. I have rescued lots of animals, even the undesirable ones like seagulls. You don't know me. I put my dog on a lead as soon as I see any other person or animal (unless it's another dog who wants to play). That's why we chose to walk in quiet places so we don't disturb people. We stick to footpaths and the edges of fields so we don't damage any crops. My dog is under control as much as any off lead dog can possibly be. I always pick up the poo even after told my other walkers that you don't need to do this in the woods! I'm not irresponsible, I put her on a lead and agreed to continue doing this. [/quote]
So why are you up in arms about having to keep your dog on a lead when walking across farmland which contains both pheasants and wild ground nesting birds? If you are an animal lover I can't understand why you needed to be told by the farmer that your behaviour was unacceptable and then come to a public forum to get your wounded ego stroked? Sadly, for you most people didn't want to stroke it and you have gone on and on trying to justify when the farmer was being so nasty to poor little you. You don't sound like any animal lover I've ever met... just saying 🙄I sincerely hope I'm wrong and you will take heed of the farmer's words next time you are walking your dog.

For the record, farmers cannot shoot dogs unless they catch them in the act of worrying livestock so please don't worry your head about that any further. If you keep your dog on a lead it can't worry livestock can it and will be perfectly safe. Just apply some common sense, that's all you need to do.

@JaniieJones

'The person who said bird die very easily from stress caused by dogs, what do you think happens when shooting season comes round? It's all the same to the poor birds'

Exactly.

I understand lost livestock (not that there was any livestock in this instance) is lost income for them but fgs what have birds got to do with farmers, don't tell me they care about their welfare.

Lots of farmers are deeply attached to the land and the wildlife. It marks a passage of the seasons it gives us clues about what the weather is going to do and what the ground conditions are like.

For me the cry of the curlew marks the start of spring, it's a beautiful sound. Curlews return year after year to breed where they were born, even if they breed unsuccessfully year after year because the nests are predated on or disturbed regularly.

It makes me so angry when I hear them wheeling in the sky during the day because it means that yet again their nesting site has been disturbed by a clueless walker or their dog off the footpath.

We walk round marking lapwing nests with sticks so we can avoid them when we are in the fields with tractors for any reason.

There's a feeling of hope when you see the first swallow of the year and a genuine sadness when you see them all lining up to leave at the end of summer as you know that the hard slog of winter is just round the corner.

We shoot foxes, crows and magpies that predate on the nests, we feed the squirrels so they are less tempted to raid tree nests for eggs. We have ZERO skin in the shooting game, the moorland we farm on doesn't have a shoot any more and we weren't involved when it did.

We maintain drystone walls and have over the last 20 years planted 100s of meters of hedgerows which we maintain using traditional methods so they become havens for small birds.

As I look across the valley to our farming neighbours all I see is them doing the same.

I dare anyone to read any of the books written by James Rebanks, or watch Amanda Owen talk about wildlife to her children or even just follow a few farmers on Twitter and still say that 'farmers don't care about the birds'.

Farmers are more likely to care and notice than the average person.

'The countryside code is very clear. Nesting season = dogs on leads. Doesnt matter if its woodland, beaches, hillsides, farmland etc.'

With respect, bollocks. Dogs should always be under control. I've no idea why people think folk can go round shooting them if they're off lead on a public right of way.

@NotReallyTheVicar

I volunteer for a country park with an ancient herd of wild deer. Despite strong bye laws mandating dogs on leads we still get the my dog wouldn’t be able to catch one excuse. The fact is that they don’t need to catch one; the stress of the chase is enough to kill or cause to abort a Red or Fallow Deer. The same is true of sheep. You have a legal right to use a footpath to get from A to B if you have a dog it must be under close control. Whether the field has stock in it is immaterial. Besides which the may be stock out of sight over a hill.

100% agree with you but, sadly, there are a lot of uneducated people out there and they will never learn because, sadly, they don't want to and genuinely believe their 'rights' (and those of their dogs) come entirely without the corresponding responsibilities that most decent people take for granted.

Haven't read the full thread so apologies if this has been raised elsewhere but it appears to be the case that game birds are specifically excluded from the definition of 'livestock' (i.e. it is thus not an offence to 'worry' them) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogs_(Protection_of_Livestock)_Act_1953

If you don't know basic things about farming then do not take your dog across farmland unless it is on a lead. It really is that simple. Your right to roam is only if you have your dog under control on a lead.

No dog should be off lead in any field that is not owned by you. Under any circumstances. Ever. I thought everyone knew this from childhood.

There's a feeling of hope when you see the first swallow of the year and a genuine sadness when you see them all lining up to leave at the end of summer as you know that the hard slog of winter is just round the corner.
Scrowy Our swallows have just returned this week. How they know where to go is amazing. They nest in our shed and make a hell of a mess. But to see them is a real sign of better weather and lambing is over.

'Lots of farmers are deeply attached to the land and the wildlife'

'We shoot foxes, crows and magpies'

Only 'attached to the wildlife' that brings in ££.

'or watch Amanda Owen talk about wildlife'

God, no thanks.

@CremeEggThief

No dog should be off lead in any field that is not owned by you. Under any circumstances. Ever. I thought everyone knew this from childhood.

That is not true. The field I let my dog off in is owned by the council and you are allowed them off lead.

This is the guidance used in Scotland in relation to outdoor access and ground nesting birds.

This guidance is set in the context of Scottish access rights under the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 (LRA) and the Scottish Outdoor Access Code (the Code), and key nature conservation legislation, in particular the Habitats Regulations and the Nature Conservation (Scotland) Act 2004 (NCA), which combine to provide a modern framework for access management.

Paragraphs 3.43-3.48 provide general guidance regarding the natural heritage, including the need to avoid “intentionally or recklessly disturbing...birds”, “not lingering if...your presence is causing significant disturbance (to birds)”, and taking “extra care to avoid disturbing more sensitive birds...particularly during their breeding season”, noting that this may be a criminal offence.Paragraph 3.55 expands on this with respect to dogs, indicating that they should be kept “on a short lead or under close control” where ground nesting birds are breeding and that “these areas include moorland, forests, grassland, loch shores and the seashore”.

A short lead is taken to be two metres and ‘under close control’ means that the dog is able to respond to your commands and is kept close at heel.

@derxa

Sounds like there's some gun crazed farmers out there, they maybe need a hobby rather than harassing people who are legally using a public right of way with a well controlled dog. Shooting a dog is the very last resort. A lot of us don't even guns

Exactly! I'd be laughing at these entirely fictional 'gun crazed farmers' roaming the land if people weren't actually believing the made up sh!t that's being spouted.

I've got a shotgun and hope never to use it on anything other than sporting clays but I would use it to protect my sheep if a dog were worrying them. I care deeply about them. I breed them and they are all pets and will never be eaten but their rights to exist safely and peacefully trumps the 'rights' of any dog owner to let their dog worry and kill them. In short, if you want to make sure that your precious dog stays safe, all you need to do is act responsibly. It's really not difficult!!

@JaniieJones

'Lots of farmers are deeply attached to the land and the wildlife'

'We shoot foxes, crows and magpies'

Only 'attached to the wildlife' that brings in ££.

'or watch Amanda Owen talk about wildlife'

God, no thanks.

I don't think you read very carefully.

'If you don't know basic things about farming then do not take your dog across farmland unless it is on a lead. It really is that simple. Your right to roam is only if you have your dog under control on a lead.'

Under control does not have to equal being on a lead on a public right of way when there isn't any livestock about.

@JaniieJones

'Lots of farmers are deeply attached to the land and the wildlife'

'We shoot foxes, crows and magpies'

Only 'attached to the wildlife' that brings in ££.

'or watch Amanda Owen talk about wildlife'

God, no thanks.

So do you suggest there shouldn't be any predator control and the ground nesting birds should just be left to die out?

I don't think it's something to laugh about really?

You just sound quite ignorant about the countryside, if you were aiming for witty and edgy it's not really working.

Well it's not a potential farmers' field then, is it, LST, If you are going to a field that you know in advance is a 'rec'? That's not what we're talking about here.

@JaniieJones

'Lots of farmers are deeply attached to the land and the wildlife'

'We shoot foxes, crows and magpies'

Only 'attached to the wildlife' that brings in ££.

'or watch Amanda Owen talk about wildlife'

God, no thanks.

Curlews, lapwings and swallows (the birds mentioned in Scrowy's post) do not bring in ANY ££. She also specifically says they don't participate in the shooting industry in any way. Foxes, crows and magpies are predators who prey on all young birds, and shooting them is done purely and simply to protect wild birds in her case.

@mudstuck

Shoot my dog for no reason and just wait to see what happens to your sheep... apparently it's the lawless Wild West out there with all these gun shooting farmers so I can just do as I please also... 🙄🙄

You need to grow up. That's if you're even serious in the first place, which I'm beginning to doubt given the tone and content of your posts.

This farmer was generous. No doubt he's as sick and tired as many landowners are of irresponsible dog owners taking liberties with their land, their livestock, and their livelihood. Yet he didn't shoot the dog. Instead he was magnanimous enough to give you the opportunity to leash it, and to ask you to show some respect for his property in future. He was being eminently reasonable.

You should be grateful.

People who are this ignorant of the countryside and show no respect for their surroundings or the animals in it have no business being there in the first place.

@CremeEggThief

Well it's not a potential farmers' field then, is it, LST, If you are going to a field that you know in advance is a 'rec'? That's not what we're talking about here.

You said any field. And there are plenty on here that think dogs should be leashed at all times. I was just correcting that.

Under control does not have to equal being on a lead on a public right of way when there isn't any livestock about.

In Scotland on grassland, moorland, forest, Koch shores and seashores during the breeding season dogs need to be on a short leash or at heel.

A public right of way is not applicable Scottish law.

Just to stand up for farmers, I don't know any that would WANT to shoot a dog, and would only do so if livestock was being worried. Also, none of them generally drive/walk around with a shotgun in their vehicles on the off chance a rogue dog appears. Guns have to be held in very strict conditions, and lots of farmers I know don't even own a gun.

@JackieLavertysWeirdVoice

You do as the farmer says and don't do that again.

Do you want your dog shot? You got a fair warning.

Exactly this.

Even if there were no sheep, no pheasants, no squirrels, no anything about it is HIS land and he has every right to ask you to keep your dog on a leash.

Apart from anything else, livestock can appear apparently from nowhere, and dog can kill sheep or cause any pregnant female animal to abort - and horses or cows (or farmers) can kill a dog.