Told by the farmer to keep dog on a lead?

[mudstuck]

I was walking my dog through a field and the farmer came up on his tractor and complained that he had seen my dog off the lead. There are no sheep or livestock around, and I would always always put her on a lead if I there was any chance of encountering any livestock.I did raise the fact that the field was empty with him and he said there are young pheasants going about... I apologised and agreed to keep her on a lead in future. However on reflection I am wondering if he is in the right to ask that of us? My dog doesn't have a very high prey drive at all and lives happily with three house cats. I don't allow her to chase wildlife although her recall, even though it's good, is not 100% and we have had the very occasional chase of a squirrel or deer. She probably would chase a pheasant if she saw one running away but she would never catch it. What do you think? Like I said I am happy to keep her on a lead just for an easy life. I live close to the farmer and don't want the trouble/conflict. Just wondering who is in the right..

'The person who said bird die very easily from stress caused by dogs, what do you think happens when shooting season comes round? It's all the same to the poor birds'

Exactly.

I understand lost livestock (not that there was any livestock in this instance) is lost income for them but fgs what have birds got to do with farmers, don't tell me they care about their welfare.

@MiaChia unless you are referring to chickens, turkey, pheasants

[quote CokeDrinker]@LST Forget about the birds, what about children? Human beings? The elderly?

What are people obsessed about birds for? If your dog mauls or kills a child, you will be held liable. Birds are in trees, so I don't know why they are being brought into it, unless you are referring to chickens, turkey, pheasants etc.[/quote]
My dog has recall. I wouldn't let him off if he didn't. He has never chased another living thing in his life. And at 9, I think that is pretty reliable. He is allowed off lead where I take him.

Not all birds are in trees. There are plenty of ground nesting birds in the UK that nest in long grass that people let their dogs bound through.

To be fair rural fields aren't usually full of children and older people.

They are likely to have ground nesting birds which is why there is legislation to cover this.

But my dog is a hunter so I've never had him off leash regardless of where we have lived.

[quote CokeDrinker]@LST Australia. Here any dog that roams is taken to the pound. And you cannot walk on 'fields' or whatever that is without permission from the owner.[/quote]
Ah that's it then. I am in the UK so it is pretty normal to allow your dog off lead.

Blimey you've had some uneducated responses. No, by law you don't have to keep your dog on lead. You need to keep it under control. No the farmer cannot shoot your dog for simply being off lead. That's absurd. Mumsnet can be a strange place and these threads seem to bring all the mouth frothers out. The reason no one has quoted a law at you is because there isn't one!

@CokeDrinker

People are going on about birds because we are going on about UK law.
Dogs do not have to be on a lead if they are under control. If a dog does attack a child or an adult, the police get involved. Sometimes owners will grab the dog and run, sometimes nothing happens but (before all the covid puppies) that sort of thing wasnt common.

The law here is that dogs just need to be under control. But during nesting season, the law is that dogs need to be on leads due to the large number of wild birds which are ground nesting.

Due to the time of year, the OP was breaking that law. Regardless of the farmer or livestock or anything else, she was in the wrong because of the time of year.

@JaniieJones

'The person who said bird die very easily from stress caused by dogs, what do you think happens when shooting season comes round? It's all the same to the poor birds'

Exactly.

I understand lost livestock (not that there was any livestock in this instance) is lost income for them but fgs what have birds got to do with farmers, don't tell me they care about their welfare.

I will explain for the third time that some farmers make part of their living from buying pheasant poults, rearing them and then holding shoots. If you disagree with that by all means campaign against it but how can you not see that you are hurting someone's livelihood if you allow your dogs to chase and stress the birds? I despair of the level of education some people have attained when it comes to basic logic 😖

Also, what about the ground nesting birds? Why does your dog's 'need' to destroy their nests outweigh their need to raise their brood?

@MiaChia

Wow, I am definitely against all forms of animal cruelty. Which is why the thought of a farmer shooting a dog that has done fuck all upsets me so much. I don't even allow my dog to chase squirrels when other owners seem to think it's fine. I have rescued lots of animals, even the undesirable ones like seagulls. You don't know me. I put my dog on a lead as soon as I see any other person or animal (unless it's another dog who wants to play). That's why we chose to walk in quiet places so we don't disturb people. We stick to footpaths and the edges of fields so we don't damage any crops. My dog is under control as much as any off lead dog can possibly be. I always pick up the poo even after told my other walkers that you don't need to do this in the woods! I'm not irresponsible, I put her on a lead and agreed to continue doing this.

@LST Oh you would not believe how many dog owners say the same thing. "But he comes on command!", "But he has never attacked anyone before, he wouldn't hurt a fly"! Do you know how many children are mauled (and some mauled to death) each year by dogs? They are dangerous and unpredictable animals, and in most first world countries are not allowed off their property unless on a leash. It's basic common sense.

'If you disagree with that by all means campaign against it but how can you not see that you are hurting someone's livelihood if you allow your dogs to chase and stress the birds?'

No bird was being chased or 'stressed' stop making stuff up. It was a jobsworth farmer.

@murbblurb

He is. Keep your predator under full control. Too late when it's torn a sheep's throat out.

Slightly dramatic

While it's also surprising to me that the OP didn't know that the farmer was in the right I think some people are just being mean. She's said she'll put the dog on a lead and so I don't see the need to be so mean to her.

@Wombatt

Blimey you've had some uneducated responses. No, by law you don't have to keep your dog on lead. You need to keep it under control. No the farmer cannot shoot your dog for simply being off lead. That's absurd. Mumsnet can be a strange place and these threads seem to bring all the mouth frothers out. The reason no one has quoted a law at you is because there isn't one!

This!

Sounds like there's some gun crazed farmers out there, they maybe need a hobby rather than harassing people who are legally using a public right of way with a well controlled dog.

[quote mudstuck]@MiaChia

Wow, I am definitely against all forms of animal cruelty. Which is why the thought of a farmer shooting a dog that has done fuck all upsets me so much. I don't even allow my dog to chase squirrels when other owners seem to think it's fine. I have rescued lots of animals, even the undesirable ones like seagulls. You don't know me. I put my dog on a lead as soon as I see any other person or animal (unless it's another dog who wants to play). That's why we chose to walk in quiet places so we don't disturb people. We stick to footpaths and the edges of fields so we don't damage any crops. My dog is under control as much as any off lead dog can possibly be. I always pick up the poo even after told my other walkers that you don't need to do this in the woods! I'm not irresponsible, I put her on a lead and agreed to continue doing this. [/quote]
If a dog enters a farmer's private property, he has the right to shoot it, I would think. And he wouldn't (or shouldn't) be charged for shooting a dog that could kill his livestock/children. No dog should be roaming. Until tonight, I thought that was common sense.

[quote CokeDrinker]@LST Oh you would not believe how many dog owners say the same thing. "But he comes on command!", "But he has never attacked anyone before, he wouldn't hurt a fly"! Do you know how many children are mauled (and some mauled to death) each year by dogs? They are dangerous and unpredictable animals, and in most first world countries are not allowed off their property unless on a leash. It's basic common sense.[/quote]
Right ok. Look, you are allowed to let your dog off lead in this country. My dog lives with children, cats and has been socialised and trained. I dont let him off anywhere he is not allowed to be off. I dont let him off in children's play areas or anywhere like that. He is a border collie and he lives for his tennis ball.

@JaniieJones

The countryside code is very clear. Nesting season = dogs on leads. Doesnt matter if its woodland, beaches, hillsides, farmland etc.

@CokeDrinker

Why are you just ignoring everything you're being told?

You are wrong. That is not how it is done here.

www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/sites/default/files/2018-09/Guidance%20-%20Managing%20access%20with%20dogs%20in%20protected%20areas%20to%20safeguard%20breeding%20birds.pdf

This makes it clear that there is legislation around nesting birds, although it recommends a collaborative approach with dog owners as a first step.

By talking to OP the farmer was doing this.

I'm surprised that some people who own dogs are so ill informed about their responsibilities in the countryside.

Sounds like there's some gun crazed farmers out there

They're on every street corner, JaniieJones, didn't you know?

@mudstuck

Can someone please explain how a farmer is legally entitled to shot your dog just for being off the lead? When the dog has not threatened livestock?

A farmer has legal redress for shooting a dog that is not under control and worrying livestock. "Worrying" is any disturbance that may cause injury or damage to the animal (and its young) , such as causing it to abort, or give birth prematurely.

You also have the responsibility to prevent your dog damaging  wildlife. 

Farmers often have the responsibility to manage wildlife on their land, in prrograms to encourage breeding birds and wild animals. This includes groundnesting birds of many kinds; and hares. You said there were hares nearby; they are a protected species in Scotland and it's on offence to harm or injure them or allow dogs to chase them. Now is the their breeding season, with extra legal protections in place.

 You are quite astonishingly ignorant of  rural land issues in Scotland .. and your legal obligations to  livestock and wildlife.

Most ROW go across farm land. The paths are 1.5 meters depending on your local council. Therefore off leash dogs are often running off the designated paths. The farmer has every right to tell you if your dog was all over his fields.

Sounds like there's some gun crazed farmers out there, they maybe need a hobby rather than harassing people who are legally using a public right of way with a well controlled dog. Shooting a dog is the very last resort. A lot of us don't even guns

I volunteer for a country park with an ancient herd of wild deer. Despite strong bye laws mandating dogs on leads we still get the my dog wouldn’t be able to catch one excuse. The fact is that they don’t need to catch one; the stress of the chase is enough to kill or cause to abort a Red or Fallow Deer. The same is true of sheep. You have a legal right to use a footpath to get from A to B if you have a dog it must be under close control. Whether the field has stock in it is immaterial. Besides which the may be stock out of sight over a hill.