People walking cats and rabbits on leads in parks

[AvocadosBeforeMortgages]

Utter fools. Do they not like their pets?

I've come across this at least 4 times now - people (all different!) walking cats and, in one case, a rabbit, on a lead.

In all cases, these are parks where dogs are allowed off lead and the vast majority are off lead. Including everything from ex-racing greyhounds to terriers.

I spoke to rabbit woman and pointed out the dangers. She said she'd just pick the rabbit up - while seemingly failing to account for the fact greyhounds can travel at 40mph and jump higher than she could possibly lift the rabbit.

Yesterday I saw this on-lead cat before my own dog did (a small miracle - from a distance I thought it was a puppy), and warned them my dog wasn't cat friendly. They then decided to stop sitting down in the park and instead FOLLOW US through the park.

Presumably when it goes wrong they'll be whining that the dog was out of control - but presumably they'd also be whining if they wandered out blindfolded onto a 70mph road and got run over. It's asking for trouble.

I'm not convinced cats or rabbits enjoy being walked - and surely the much safer / more pragmatic option would be to walk them somewhere where dogs aren't allowed to be off lead?

Let's pray this doesn't catch on as a trend

It doesn’t detract from the point that the owner with the rabbit has just as much right to be their with their pet, as you do with your dog. I’m sorry it may annoy , upset or even piss you off but it’s a fact.

You may have the right to do it, but that doesn't stop it from being incredibly irresponsible and potentially very dangerous.

Don't let logic stop you from doing it because "you have the right!" though.

I used to have a huge rabbit. No way would I have taken her to a park. She was safe and free range in the garden.

It's about meeting the species specific needs of your animal and providing good welfare.

I do. In my cat's case it involves two decent walks a day (unless it's raining, or too cold, or too windy, or the wind's in the wrong direction, or he just can't be arsed). I took him in knowing that this was how it would be. He was surrendered by a family who knew they couldn't meet his needs.

So you may have to accept that sometimes a cat on a lead is exactly what you are advocating.

Tbh I would much rather encounter a cat or rabbit in my local park than a dog.
Inconsiderate dog owners who let their fucking dogs get too close to my dc when in the park ( can't be bothered to put them on a lead) seriously piss me off.
I've had words with a few and called the police on one who let their fucking dog jump onto my 3 year old. No regrets!! Thankfully it was a friendly dog. But yeah the owners were bastards.

If a dog attacks someone else's pet, it's the dog and the dogs owner who are in the wrong.

You're victim blaming essentially.

How about we take dogs out of the scenario.

Would a rabbit be comfortable in a large, outdoor area? On a harness and leash so it feels trapped and vulnerable. It could be a rabbit that has only ever lived indoors and never/rarely even been in a garden.

That's not an example of meeting that animals needs or even caring about its wellbeing.

@SnoozyBoozy

Wouldn't it be nice if people were just decent and took responsibility for educating themselves and safeguarding their pet's welfare rather than taking the stance of 'well there's no law against it so I'll do what I want

We'd see many fewer animal welfare problems if people were less self-absorbed

This works both ways though. I think this thread shows that there are dog owners who believe it's the responsibility of others not to put other animals in the vicinity of their dog as 'they might not be able to curb their natural instincts and chase it'. But why should someone else's lack of responsibility (for not keeping their dog on a lead) mean that someone else should not be allowed to walk their cat? While I wouldn't personally take a cat to a park where I knew there were dogs off lead, I should be allowed to take a cat to a normal park and expect it not to get mauled by 'a sighthound who wasn't expecting to see a cat'.

And if we're talking about responsible pet owners, the number of people who'll let their off-lead dogs come bounding up to my child who has ASD and is scared of dogs and just shout over cheerily 'oh it's fine, he's friendly!' like that should make it ok...

And my final point (!), you linked to an RSPCA site saying about not taking cats for walks on leads - we adopted our Fiv cat from the RSPCA who specifically told us to take him out for walks on a harness to exercise him. We have quite a big garden, so we do stay in there, but not everyone has that. Catios (I looked into them) are generally tiny and wouldn't provide him.with much exercise, so a harness it is (or I make him miserable by staying inside all the time).

So I am looking after my animal's welfare in the best way I can. I really don't think the majority of people who walk their other pets are doing it as some kind of status symbol or are 'half-wits' as someone so nicely said.

Hi, yes agree totally about the fact that walking cats is not a status symbol. as i have previously said I would love to be able to let my cat out but unfortuanetly the Cat and Dog thievery is rife at the moment. As to the posters who suggest Catios and Gardens, well, i have no private garden, in common with many other people, Have i to be denied the pleasure of owning a pet because I live in a flat with a communal garden?.. I honestly don't think some posters realise that if we all had lovely gardens that could be catproofed that we would do that and that would negate the necessity of walking a cat. I can also assure all concerned about the welfare of the animal that if the cat is in any way distressed, it will not be forced to walk. However, my experince of Siamese cats is that they are quick and keen to learn, and love being with their owners.

WiganNorthWest
I think you're right, but it requires common sense on all sides.

A responsible dog owner would typically have their dog on a lead where there's lots of people, but equally people who want to have a picnic in the middle of a country park field need to accept that there's probably going to be dogs off lead and if they're the sort of person who is going to get very dramatic about an off lead dog being in sight they'd be better having their picnic somewhere else.
(Obviously the usual disclaimer applies before the anti dog lot think this is victim blaming/excusing out of control dogs/prioritising furbabies/expecting humans to stay indoors, I'm not talking about out of control dogs. I'm talking about people who dislike off lead dogs and who get dramatic about off lead dogs who are minding their own business).

Unfortunately those prone to over emotional, very dramatic, speaking in hyperbole to milk their point (on both extremes) seem incapable of accepting that in public spaces people are allowed to use places in ways that they might not like.

@sunflowersandbuttercups but it’s only potentially dangerous because of your out of control dog! If there were no dogs there then yes, I think the rabbit might be happy as Larry! Depending on the rabbit.

My cat enjoyed walking on a lead, wasn't stressed or anxious while doing it.
I accept that it caused stress to some dog owners but only ones who thought that they had a right to both have a loose dog and either didn't want to or weren't able to control them.

I have a dog so don't have anything against dogs but some of their owners are very entitled.

Rabbits and cats aside this pandemic has made me completely sick of dogs and dog owners. The well behaved controlled dogs are in a minority now and having never been scared of dogs I'm now quite nervous around them as they behave like wild feral animals. I know it's just laziness on behalf of the owners, not training them properly and just getting a puppy for vanity reasons or because everyone else is doing it.

Go for a walk with dog owning friends and it trashes the enjoyment of the walk as anytime they're off the lead it's just stress about getting the dog back, monitoring their interactions with other dogs and humans, constantly being on the case. Not relaxing at all. And the poodle hybrid mongrel types bark, constantly.

If your dog is not 100% safe to be off lead in all circumstances (including when it is presented with an animal it would consider prey) and does not have prefect recall then it should not be off lead at all

Why do people keep saying this, like you can teach a dog perfect recall in your garden then expect it to have perfect recall when it's out and subject to all sorts of distractions? That's not how it works. Dogs get better at recall with training and maturity but it's impossible to do it without letting them off the lead. Yes, you can do your best to be aware of what's around you, and put them back on if you see potential danger or a dog on a lead that might be nervous or aggressive, but ultimately they have to be off lead to get better at it. Even then, I don't think they are 100% reliable.

All animals should be kept on lead imo. Including dogs.

@MrsMackesy

Do carry on banging your usually knowledgeable drum about animals loudly on this thread, Veterinari but I won't be taking any lessons from you about what is or is not a disablist term.

Honestly @MrsMackesy if I've misunderstood then please do correct me. I've done a quick search but can't see any obvious resources on this and as you rightly point out it is not my area of expertise. I absolutely would not want to cause inadvertent offence. I believe language is important.

But my understanding is also that language evolves, and terms like halfwit, stupid and idiot (I'm sorry I don't want to cause offence but I'm not sure how to describe those terms without writing them) are generally used in society, accepted and not used to refer to intellectual disabilities.
If I'm wrong then please correct me, if @AvocadosBeforeMortgages has inadvertently used an inappropriate term then this is an opportunity for us all to learn from that 

‘Unfortunately those prone to over emotional, very dramatic, speaking in hyperbole to milk their point (on both extremes) seem incapable of accepting that in public spaces people are allowed to use places in ways that they might not like’.
This is the crux of the argument. You may well think it’s a welfare issue and as I’ve said, it may enrage you that people are allowed to walk their pets in the park but unfortunately folk can use a park in any way they see fit ( within the law). It really has nothing to do with animal welfare, that’s a separate issue.

Parks are for everyone, not just dogs, I don't think anyone has said parks are only for dogs.

Anyone who cares about their pet wouldn't want to put it in a stressful situation. I have Guinea pigs and wouldn't even think about taking them out like this as I care about them.

Hatred of dogs is getting in the way of understanding other animals needs.

@gamerchick

All animals should be kept on lead imo. Including dogs.

My dog strongly disagrees with your opinion. And so do my cats!

Here's Leroy on a walk 😁

Not stressed or traumatised, enjoying a good sniff about.

@Poorlykitten

‘Unfortunately those prone to over emotional, very dramatic, speaking in hyperbole to milk their point (on both extremes) seem incapable of accepting that in public spaces people are allowed to use places in ways that they might not like’. This is the crux of the argument. You may well think it’s a welfare issue and as I’ve said, it may enrage you that people are allowed to walk their pets in the park but unfortunately folk can use a park in any way they see fit ( within the law). It really has nothing to do with animal welfare, that’s a separate issue.

Agreed. Just like off lead dogs.

@hellcatspangle

If your dog is not 100% safe to be off lead in all circumstances (including when it is presented with an animal it would consider prey) and does not have prefect recall then it should not be off lead at all

Why do people keep saying this, like you can teach a dog perfect recall in your garden then expect it to have perfect recall when it's out and subject to all sorts of distractions? That's not how it works. Dogs get better at recall with training and maturity but it's impossible to do it without letting them off the lead. Yes, you can do your best to be aware of what's around you, and put them back on if you see potential danger or a dog on a lead that might be nervous or aggressive, but ultimately they have to be off lead to get better at it. Even then, I don't think they are 100% reliable.

People keep saying it because it’s the law that dogs must be under control-and an off lead dog you can’t call away from distractions is not under control and is therefore illegal. I don’t think it’s fair to use unconsenting members of the public as distractions to train an off lead dog around. It’s also not an effective way to train recall as if you let a dog with poor recall off lead it may quickly realise that approaching strangers and dogs/stealing picnic food is more fun than returning to the owner. Use a long line to train your dog until it can be called away from people and other dogs/distractions. That way you can stop the dog approaching people, it has freedom to exercise and it is much safer.

"I'm there 365 days of the year."

How monotonous that must be.

Still doesn't give you any kind of trump card over other park users, human or otherwise.

[quote Poorlykitten]@sunflowersandbuttercups but it’s only potentially dangerous because of your out of control dog! If there were no dogs there then yes, I think the rabbit might be happy as Larry! Depending on the rabbit.[/quote]
But there are ALWAYS going to be dogs out in public, because dogs need to be exercised and taken to the toilet.

You don't NEED to take your rabbit anywhere on a lead. That's a choice. And if you insist on making that unnecessary choice, then you need to accept the consequences of it.

Rabbits are prey animals to dogs. There are many breeds out there who have been bred over hundreds of years to catch rabbits and kill them. You can't train instinct out of a dog. Yes, you can keep them on a lead but that won't stop them lunging, jumping and pulling to try and get to your pet.

So, again, why would you willingly go and put your supposedly beloved pet into such a dangerous position?

@YesItsMeIDontCare

Here's Leroy on a walk 😁

Not stressed or traumatised, enjoying a good sniff about.

He's stunning!

What breed is he, do you know? He looks a little like my rescue boy, just much fluffier!

Yes, unfortunately this is also the case but as a dog owner you have a responsibility to prevent that dog chasing other animals/children/people while in that space. It needs to be controlled if it can’t do that, it needs to be on a lead.

@sunflowersandbuttercups you are missing the point. You feel it’s a need and a perfect right to exercise your dog in the park, other people feel the same about their animals. Right or wrongly but there it is.