Breed help please

[StillRunningUpThatHill]

I grew up with dogs (westies, a shih tzu and German shepherds, so a range of breeds!) and DH and I had two rescue dogs (lurcher and collie cross) until the last one died of old age five years ago. Without wishing to seem arrogant I would class myself as very knowledgeable about dogs - I do a lot of reading up, dog behaviour and training being one of my pet passions. We haven’t been in a position to own a dog due to work commitments since our last boy died, but I will be starting a new job where I can WFH soon so the time might be coming (I will give myself time to bed into my new job first). I want a puppy from a decent breeder so I know there is likely to be a long waiting list, and I’m prepared to do lots of searching and waiting for the right puppy. I only want a pup from health tested parents and won’t be going near Pets4Homes etc.

Here’s our situation the dog will need to fit into:
We have DCs aged 8 and 10 - very responsible and love animals but obviously need a breed that is a good family dog
Two cats (they will be able to escape from the puppy upstairs)
Living room and kitchen are on the first floor of the house, so needs to be a breed that can cope with going up and down stairs (which rules out a Great Dane, sadly, as I love them)
Dog will go for at least three walks a day; two about half an hour, one about an hour, and longer at the weekends
I am prepared to do lots of obedience training and know how to do this
We live very near open countryside so lots of lovely walks available but dog will need good recall (obviously I will work on this but I wouldn’t be interested in a husky or similar!)
Dog will be left on its own for 3-4 hours a couple of times a week ultimately, no more than that
Would prefer medium-large rather than a small breed (but there is the stairs issue)
Would prefer something that isn’t going to shed massively but don’t mind having to take to the groomers and do some maintenance at home too.

Our breed shortlist so far:

Standard poodle - my first choice. I love them. DH isn’t convinced by the hairstyles though, even though I’ve told him it doesn’t have to have pom-poms.
Springer spaniel - DH’s first choice. I also love them but am worried might be reactive to the cats and overly manic.
Dalmatian - would be happy to give it the exercise it needs, more worried the stairs might be an issue and I know they shed a lot.
Golden retriever or Labrador - same concerns as Dalmatian re stairs and shedding.

What do you think? Any other suggestions? I adore GSDs and they were my favourites growing up but I would be too worried about all the potential issues the breed has these days, I think, to get one. I will categorically not be getting any form of poodle cross. We are only in the early stages of considering this so there is plenty of time, but I want to narrow the breed choice down so I can start looking at breeders and getting on waiting lists. Much as my heart says rescue, I want a puppy this time, so it does need to be a breeder. All suggestions appreciated! Thank you!

Get the standard poodle, and tell your DH it's a doodlepoo?

Also, do look at the vulnerable native breeds list

www.thekennelclub.org.uk/getting-a-dog/are-you-ready/vulnerable-native-breeds/

• might one of the less common spaniels be a good fit?

I guess you've ruled out terriers for a reason, but a soft coated wheaten might be a good choice

Definitely a standard poodle. I had the same discussion with my ex - it is literally a hair cut difference!

Even now he says it was the right choice - no hair drop, soft and fluffy and good to train.

Photos attached of one of mine, and one of his littermates!

Look online for a teddy bear cut on google - literally can look like a doodle if that's required to ease his head 😂

Happy to answer any questions!

Samoyed?

Novia scotia duck rolling retriever

What about a Flat coat if you're considering retriever. They don't have the same under coat so don't shed as much as labs. Chilled out in the house as long as they get enough exercise. Less crazy over bred than labs but have the good natured temperament to make awesome family dogs.

Thanks all. Wetotter - I would be worried about terriers being inclined to chase the cats, otherwise a border terrier would be on the list.

Zombie, what a beautiful dog - parti poodles are stunning! I have been showing him lots of pics of poodles with non-poodle hairstyles so I’ll keep working on that.

Samoyeds and Novia Scotias aren’t breeds I know much about so I will go and do some reading.

Thanks very much for the suggestions!

Ooo Irish I have met Flatcoats and really liked them, thank you. What do you think about the stairs issue? I don’t want to knacker their joints but dog is going to have to go up and down a flight of stairs to go out for walks.

I’m sure a lovely Airedale pup would get use to being around the cats and not react.

Don't get a dalmatian. They don't come with a brain.

What about a working cocker? Similar to a springer, but ours was less manic.

Or a Sussex Spaniel ?

We had a terrier, she only chased other people’s cats. She understood that she couldn’t chase the two that lived in the same house.
Springer spaniel but from a calm working line. I’ve a relative with a lot of working dogs and the springers are all calm.
I like labs best but the stairs wouldn’t be good.

@ErniesGhostlyGoldTops

Don't get a dalmatian. They don't come with a brain.

I’ve got a Dalmatian She’s the 3rd one I’ve had (I must be madder than I believe I am) Not for the faint hearted Very demanding Mind of her own Love her to bits though

I would say Lab, he’s the best dog I’ve ever had. But, he tore his knee age seven and can’t manage stairs (and shouldn’t). Luckily he’s happy sleeping on his humongous, orthopaedic bed downstairs. Dog groomer said he’s the hairiest dog she has ever had to deal with and she’s had two labs herself!

My parents had a poodle as a child, fine with cats, children and stairs! Needs a clip but doesn’t shed.

Border collie.

I would say look at vizslas and standard schnauzers too. They pretty much fit what you’re looking for also. Vizslas are less maintenance with grooming etc but if you’re looking at standard poodles then schnauzers shouldn’t be left out

BigWolf, much as I’m happy to do obedience training I’m not sure I am able to give enough time to agility or flyball or similar for a border collie, so I don’t think that would work for us, but thank you.

CantFight, I do love Vizlas but they’re so trendy at the moment I was a bit worried they might be being over-bred/hard to find a really good breeder? Standard Schnauzer, interesting, I’ll have a look!

Fallfall, I’ve heard mixed reports about Airedales which made me think they might not be the best family dogs?

Itwa, I know a few cockers who seem very highly strung, but I suspect they’re not from good breeders. I do love springers, I have to say, but the potential for them to be a bit mad does make me think twice.

BigWolf, much as I’m happy to do obedience training I’m not sure I am able to give enough time to agility or flyball or similar for a border collie, so I don’t think that would work for us, but thank you
With respect, i think you, like most people, are misinformed re the breed.
They don’t need agility, flyball, hours of mental stimulation etc etc.

You said your children are 8 and 10, that you can give at least two hours of walking a day, you want a medium to large dog with good recall that doesn’t shed too much and can be left alone for 3 hours a few times a week and is likely to get on with the cats.

A collie largely fits that criteria aside from shedding, but then Dalmatians and retrievers and spaniels all shed a fuck load 🤷‍♀️

There’s no dog truly ‘cat safe’ as they are predators.

Really? The ones I’ve known have either been mad, because they weren’t being stimulated, or amazing, because they were doing agility etc. My understanding was that they need more mental stimulation than exercise alone could provide?

I've got a springer and a cat. They actually have quite a sweet relationship. However, I do have the worlds laziest springer.

Flatcoats do shed a lot.

Not as much as Goldens or Labradors but not massively less so.

Also, I love them,but for the first 5/6 years they are pretty nuts.

All that said they are wonderful dogs.

I've had 2.

If the shedding is a real issue for you then standard poodle is probably your best bet. But I say that as someone not familiar with the breed and I don't like the look even without the daft cuts.

Really? The ones I’ve known have either been mad, because they weren’t being stimulated, or amazing, because they were doing agility etc. My understanding was that they need more mental stimulation than exercise alone could provide?
It’s more likely the ‘mad’ ones were overstimulated, not under.

Collies tend to do better with calm activity.
A lot of collies (mine included) find the high excitement of things like agility way too overstimulating and get whiny and wired and unpleasant as a result.

I’ve known and know quite a few collies and while they are all untireable and can walk for miles none of them are ‘wild’ or ‘mad’ at all.
All lovely, sweet, kind family dogs.

The only real negative things I would say is the breed at maturity tends not to want to socialise with other dogs.
Unlike the retrievers and spaniels which tend to be very gregarious.

They also, like all the herding breeds, can also be high strung and nervy (also a problem in Dalmations and Spaniels) so checking you like the parents temperament and doing lots of calm socialisation is a must.

It may be that another breed would be a better fit for you but I certainly wouldn’t discount border collies just yet.

Hi Op, have a look at www.champdogs.co.uk. They list each breed with a summary of history, characteristics, any health problems & what tests the parents should have before breeding. Also photos, breeders, owners.
Worth a look.

Thanks CoffeeBeans, I’m registered on Champdogs and will be using it to find a breeder once we’ve made the decision!

With respect, i think you, like most people, are misinformed re the breed.

And you keep posting this rubbish about Border Collies. Some don't need lots of exercise or mental stimulation. Many do because they are bred for it. Unfortunately the puppies don't come with labels to let you know in advance which sort you have. You are the one feeding misinformation. Border Collie are great dogs, but people need to be aware that taking one or more on is not a simple task. The OP is correct, they need much more than just exercise.

OP, you might look at a Tibetan Terrier. My brother has one. They are smart, can be a bit stubborn. Like exercise but are forgiving. Bred as guard dogs originally, so tend towards being part of a family/home. Fine with stairs - bred for mountains! Not particularly needy so can be self-sufficient for short times alone. Like most intelligent breeds they need training and boundaries, and can be sneaky. But they are lovely dogs. If I was to put them on a par with other breeds, I'd compare them to the Poodle - not quite as smart as a Border Collie, but much more forgiving of humans!