Breed help please

[StillRunningUpThatHill]

I grew up with dogs (westies, a shih tzu and German shepherds, so a range of breeds!) and DH and I had two rescue dogs (lurcher and collie cross) until the last one died of old age five years ago. Without wishing to seem arrogant I would class myself as very knowledgeable about dogs - I do a lot of reading up, dog behaviour and training being one of my pet passions. We haven’t been in a position to own a dog due to work commitments since our last boy died, but I will be starting a new job where I can WFH soon so the time might be coming (I will give myself time to bed into my new job first). I want a puppy from a decent breeder so I know there is likely to be a long waiting list, and I’m prepared to do lots of searching and waiting for the right puppy. I only want a pup from health tested parents and won’t be going near Pets4Homes etc.

Here’s our situation the dog will need to fit into:
We have DCs aged 8 and 10 - very responsible and love animals but obviously need a breed that is a good family dog
Two cats (they will be able to escape from the puppy upstairs)
Living room and kitchen are on the first floor of the house, so needs to be a breed that can cope with going up and down stairs (which rules out a Great Dane, sadly, as I love them)
Dog will go for at least three walks a day; two about half an hour, one about an hour, and longer at the weekends
I am prepared to do lots of obedience training and know how to do this
We live very near open countryside so lots of lovely walks available but dog will need good recall (obviously I will work on this but I wouldn’t be interested in a husky or similar!)
Dog will be left on its own for 3-4 hours a couple of times a week ultimately, no more than that
Would prefer medium-large rather than a small breed (but there is the stairs issue)
Would prefer something that isn’t going to shed massively but don’t mind having to take to the groomers and do some maintenance at home too.

Our breed shortlist so far:

Standard poodle - my first choice. I love them. DH isn’t convinced by the hairstyles though, even though I’ve told him it doesn’t have to have pom-poms.
Springer spaniel - DH’s first choice. I also love them but am worried might be reactive to the cats and overly manic.
Dalmatian - would be happy to give it the exercise it needs, more worried the stairs might be an issue and I know they shed a lot.
Golden retriever or Labrador - same concerns as Dalmatian re stairs and shedding.

What do you think? Any other suggestions? I adore GSDs and they were my favourites growing up but I would be too worried about all the potential issues the breed has these days, I think, to get one. I will categorically not be getting any form of poodle cross. We are only in the early stages of considering this so there is plenty of time, but I want to narrow the breed choice down so I can start looking at breeders and getting on waiting lists. Much as my heart says rescue, I want a puppy this time, so it does need to be a breeder. All suggestions appreciated! Thank you!

And you keep posting this rubbish about Border Collies
Charming.
I note you tend to agree with a lot of what I post so it can’t be all that rubbish!

How about a pointer or wire hired pointer
Calm steady but need good exercise routine.

@whenwillthemadnessend

How about a pointer or wire hired pointer Calm steady but need good exercise routine.

Pointers are hard work, lovely but mad and prone to separation anxiety. They are the best dogs going but need approaching with eyes wide open, especially for the first three years.

Another photo i came across on a group (can't take credit myself) shows two extremes of poodles, neither with Pompoms)

I have two springers and a cat. They get on great but the cat, of course, is in charge. Mine both come from good working lines. They are wonderful family dogs as long as you can give them enough mental and physical exercise to tire them out. They can be a bit mad, but I love that about them. They shed though. A lot.

German shorthair pointer (sort of similar to Dalmatian and springer)
White Swiss shepherd? I’d love one of these, they are very rare in the UK but are like white German shepherds, but healthier, not ruined by bad breeding and tend to be more friendly with other dogs and strangers

I have a cocker x collie (working parents) and he is perfect. Likes walks, very obedient but doesn't have the collie neuroticism about chasing cars etc.
I also know a lot of vets and they say you get the dig that suits you I.e. you train it to fot your life. So maybe don't worry too much about breeds.

Pointers are lush too.

Standard poodle! Super smart and so easy to train. Although I am biased as I have one!

Separation anxiety is pretty much a breed trait in tibetan terriers. They are called the little people in Tibet and they are a pretty unique dog. They are full of character, stubborn, they become bonded to their family. They're natural clowns and love to make you laugh. They learn quickly but they are hard to train because you have to be very patient with them and have to give them a reason to do anything.

I've had 3 - next time ill get a dog that likes to please it's owner because that is not a TT! They're fabulous dogs but I wouldn't say they're easy.

Have you considered an Irish Water Spaniel? Beautiful dog, great temperament, loves exercise, doesn't shed. Can be protective.

Terriers, like other dogs, are usually fine with cats (especially cohabiting cats) is they are brought up with them.

Airedales are reputed to be quite challenging to train (boisterous, and have typical terrier stubbornness) but all the ones I know have lovely temperaments

Hi OP

Sounds like a very lucky dog!

I’d highly recommend flatcoat retrievers. They are such lovely, friendly, patient, wellbehaved dogs, who get very bonded to people including children and - in my experience - with minimal training can have good boundaries around not jumping up or being too rough with kids. Good recall too, love fetch (and love water!).

Fine going up and down stairs BUT the caveat here is that the breed is more than usually prone to cancer, including sarcomas that often appear in the legs (soft tissue most commonly). A Cambridge University study has found that more than half of flat coats get cancers and get them young - by 8 or 9. Ours died at nine, almost ten, put to sleep because the cancer in his leg had spread and he was in pain.

So the risk is there and is high, although mine isn’t such bad innings for a big dog (but definitely not great). They really are just the loveliest dogs though, and sound like they’d fit well in your set up.

Springer spaniels - I haven’t met one that isn’t a bad mad. But I know there is variation in the breed, same as other spaniels - two separate family members have cocker spaniels and they’re chalk and cheese, one quite calm, the other with some serious anxiety and separation issues. Personally, I find the constant excitement of the springers I’ve met a bit annoying but that’s probably because sometimes I want the dog to come and just sit with me on the sofa. But good obedience training could quell that.

Someone mentioned collies. You’re a very experienced dog owner so probably the best kind of person to get a collie - but personally I’ve found collies (owned by several friends) to be snappish and quite unpredictable which I wouldn’t want around kids.

Typo: haven’t met a springer who isn’t a bit mad.

Typo: nine isn’t such bad innings

@Chocolatepeanuts

Have you considered an Irish Water Spaniel? Beautiful dog, great temperament, loves exercise, doesn't shed. Can be protective.

Ah this is a great recommendation - they’re gorgeous, and the breed has been in decline I think. I’ve only met two, both were snappish around other dogs and one of them snappish to children - probably part of the protectiveness, and not a big enough sample to know if that’s what most are like!

What about breeds such as:

Flatcoat retriever
Working cocker spaniel
Short-haired pointer

@DeusEx yes our boy hated other dogs, but hadnt been socilaized well as a pup (before we got him). He was great with our kids and I never let him close enough to others to know what he would be like. A very intelligent breed, it was like he knew what we were thinking!

I'm tempted by a Pharaoh Hound for the next dog. Has to be less mad than the pointer.

I have quite a bit of knowledge of Tibetan terriers and pretty much all the ones I've met are very stubborn, and quite lazy. They're pretty frustrating at times to be honest. If they don't want to go, they'll plop themselves down and that's that. I don't think they'd match what the op wants in terms of exercise requirements.

Go for the standard poodle op. They're the best.

What about an Irish terrier? Larger breed, smart, very trainable and good natured dogs. Good with kids.

Irish setter. Best dogs in the world.

Standard poodles are great dogs. Very intelligent. I had one growing up and my sister had one now and she actually snuggles in and gives hugs. She is the best dog. Very high prey drives though, our old one would routinely break into our hutches and eat the baby rabbits and my sisters would have anything small and furry, cats included! Doberman has been a breed we have previously considered

Thanks everyone. Loads of food for thought. I think my heart still leans to the standard poodle so I need to work on DH.

Calmyertits, I’ve flirted with the idea of a Doberman but I’m worried about the same potential issues as with a GSD - that the breed seems to have potential for issues these days due to modern breeding. I know if we got a good one it would be a brilliant dog, and the training wouldn’t be a problem, but there’s just that element of unpredictability that I’d rather not risk.

Another vote for a Flat coat here
They really are great fun , I always say you can't be sad for too long with a flattie by your side- they just have such an optimistic happy nature.
They are intelligent and like to please, so fairly easy to train
The two I have owned have always been excellent with children and very people orientated
My current one is pretty much as bomb proof as a dog can get
Great family dogs - ( but terrible thieves )

@villainousbroodmare

Irish setter. Best dogs in the world.

Prone to being a big mad though? My grandparents had one, gorgeous but utterly mad and the vet said it went with the breed (but he also wasn’t walked enough which will not have helped).