Is it time that all dogs were kept on lead in public places (warning - contains sad news about the seal on the Thames)

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there's a very sad story about Freddie the seal being attacked and unfortunately having to be put to sleep. he was attacked by an off lead dog walking on the Thames path. It also wasn't the first attack - he had been 'bothered' by other dogs earlier in the week www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56489147

I've walked along that path with my dog and it's extremely busy. Loads of bikes, small children, ducks, geese, swans. I have never felt it's safe to have a dog off lead in that environment, no matter how good you think their recall is.

I just wonder whether we are now at the point where dogs should be walked on lead in public places. I'm a dog owner myself and don't have a problem with it. I do know a lot of people who have dogs who have far worse recall than ours who allow them off lead when they are walked.

This story has really saddened me - I don't know if it's the picture of the seal with its sad eyes that's doing it or the fact that he travelled so far and seemed to have finally found somewhere that he was happy!

I suppose it depends what you mean by public places. I read part of that thread in AIBU and some people have very extreme opinions, e.g. dogs on lead unless on private land (the garden). I don't agree with that, we don't all have acres of land, so why shouldn't well-trained dogs with decent recall be allowed to run about a green space? But I also think dogs should be on a lead in busy urban areas, which it sounds like this was. You'd hope you could rely on people's common sense but that seems to be lacking at the moment. I don't know what the answer is (compulsory training classes?) but I don't think it's to restrict the freedom of all dogs.

It is a sad story. Wasn't there also a theory that this dog slipped or broke its lead? It could have been a tragic accident rather than an irresponsible owner.

yes I agree that dogs should be on a lead in busy urban area, no matter how well trained they are. Though in London, that would rule out a lot of park space too given how busy it is.

Even the most well trained dogs have lapses especially around wild animals/farm animals and I do think in those environments, by rivers, in parks, near farmland dogs should be on lead.

there are fields you can hire for dogs to run off lead in if you don't have access to large spaces

I hired one of those secure dog fields recently to test my puppy's recall, it wasn't much bigger than a large garden and certainly not a substitute for a lovely long sniffy walk.

I live in Scotland and we're lucky enough to be near a large country park. It's mainly public land but there's no way dogs need to be on leads (unless they're not trained or safe to be off lead). There are gates between the open spaces and farmland, with signs telling you where you need your dog on lead.

Sounds like we're coming at this from two totally different perspectives and environments. I'd argue that the rule to keep your dog under proper control is enough. Saying that, there is a huge issue with people not having their dog under enough control but not seeing that there's a problem. A dog ran up to my off lead puppy the other day. She had her ball, she wasn't interested in playing with this dog. The owner kept trying to recall it but it wasn't listening. Rather than coming over and removing the dog they just kept wandering behind us, chatting among themselves. Off lead dogs aren't the problem, owners that aren't paying attention are.

No

Dogs need to be able to have a good run and burn off energy BUT this needs to be in an appropriate place

So busy public park, not ideal

Field with livestock in it. Not ideal

Field with no one around, perfect

Obviously this shouldn't have happened.

I will note however that many dogs, including mine, are very barky and frankly a little unpleasant when on the lead, and perfectly nice off lead. It's all a bit fight or flight really - when off lead he just goes off and does his own thing, sniffs some bottoms, chases some squirrels and whatnot. On lead he's quite nervous and as a result barky (bit snappy, not that he's ever bitten a third party).

there are fields you can hire for dogs to run off lead in if you don't have access to large spaces

They're always in rural, inaccessible locations that require a car to get to. There's no way it would be a practical option for someone living in Hammersmith. There's also not that many of them - certainly not enough for everyone to use one. I'd sooner they were kept for people who have seriously reactive dogs and people testing puppy recall.

I imagine that this dog owner was totally taken by surprise by the seal - you wouldn't normally expect to find one there, hence why it made the news - and the dog's reaction to it (I doubt it had ever seen a seal before).

Mine are gobby little gits on lead too

They bark at everything and everyone so I always have them close when things go by

They aren’t being nasty. Just loud

I think people need to just be more aware that ANY dog, no matter how placid and good natured, has the potential to go for an animal they see as prey.

I have no doubt that my dog, if given the opportunity, would try to catch a duck, lamb, squirrel etc. He's on his short lead in busy parks, a long line in the countryside and a trailing line when we walk through a quiet forest near to us.

there are fields you can hire for dogs to run off lead in if you don't have access to large spaces

But they aren't everywhere - and they're not cheap, either. Our nearest enclosed field is 90 minutes away and costs £10 an hour. It's not exactly easily accessible!

Also, as PP have said, many dogs behave worse on the lead than they do off. Leash reactivity is a real problem (because dogs feel restricted on lead and react accordingly) and it's highly unfair to expect them to be stressed their entire lives because they can't run free.

there were signs up as other dogs had bothered the seal

though I do feel for the dog owner as there are thankfully v few owners who would happily see their dog attack an animal

there are enclosed spaces, dog parks, in west/south west london where dogs can be taken to exercise. I don't think there's any excuse not to have your dog on lead on the Thames Path (or in the parks with deer like Richmond/Bushy where there have been numerous dog attacks this year)

If you don't have an accessable safe place for your dog to run off lead, then imo you just have to walk it on a lead. Or not get a dog in the first place if you're not in a position to meet its needs. If you live in a city, and decide to get a dog, surely you would realise that lengthy off lead walks aren't going to be practical or fair on the people and wildlife around you?

I live rurally, and there's been a massive issue with large numbers of dog owners letting their dogs run free on marshland where there are ground nesting birds. This is despite the many other more suitable places, including a free to use secure off lead field.

The way people talk about it, you'd think it was some kind of inherent right to have a pet dog, and have everyone inconvenience themselves for the dogs needs.

I long for a pet cat, but I don't have one because I live in rented accommodation without a cat flap and know I wouldn't be able to afford potential large vet bills. I accept that right now I would not be able to meet a pets needs, and need to be in different circumstances before getting one.

Dog lover here and I agree OP. People also seem to think everyone loves their dog as much as they do. Someone let their dog jump up and lick my toddlers face at the weekend, just chuckled about the dog being friendly and made no attempt to call it off.

From what I've seen/read - didn't the owner have the dog on a lead but the lead snapped?

Even if you keep your dog on a lead, it's not a foolproof means of protection - you could trip and drop the lead, the dog could pull it out of your hand, the dog could slip a collar or, as happened to me last week, a D-ring failed and the leash came unclipped from the collar.

I agree that dogs should be on lead in busy areas and by roads, or around livestock etc., but a lead slipping/snapping/breaking can happen to anyone.

I agree and almost started a petition yesterday due to my on-lead dog being attacked yet again by an-off lead dog in a small public park. In his 8 years I've lost count of the amount of times this has happened. My dog is on-lead for a reason, he doesn't like other dogs (purely because he's been jumped on so many times!!). Most off-lead dogs come flailing over and stick their nose up his arse, which for an on-lead fearful dog is going to illicit a reaction. This then sometimes turns into a problem of my on-lead dog being attacked by an off-lead dog that the owner can't recall. I live in a touristy/ rural area and the amount of out of control off-lead dogs is an utter joke. Something needs to be done.

@sunflowersandbuttercups

From what I've seen/read - didn't the owner have the dog on a lead but the lead snapped?

Even if you keep your dog on a lead, it's not a foolproof means of protection - you could trip and drop the lead, the dog could pull it out of your hand, the dog could slip a collar or, as happened to me last week, a D-ring failed and the leash came unclipped from the collar.

I agree that dogs should be on lead in busy areas and by roads, or around livestock etc., but a lead slipping/snapping/breaking can happen to anyone.

I very much doubt all of the attacks from dogs are caused by broken leads or the dog escaping. This would be a rare occurrance compared to the number of dogs off lead. Also it is the owners responsibility to have a lead appropriate to the dogs strength, and check that it is in working order to minimise this risk.

Surely the answer is to have separate, fenced sections of park in busy areas? They have specific dog parks in NYC, or areas of squares where they can be let off the lead to run around.

No.
What we should do is crack down on irresponsible owners.

I imagine that this dog owner was totally taken by surprise by the seal - you wouldn't normally expect to find one there, hence why it made the news - and the dog's reaction to it (I doubt it had ever seen a seal before).

Pretty much everyone locally was aware of the seal. It’s been across local news of all means for ages.

OP is rework saddened me too. Sounds ridiculous but Freddie bought a little bit of joy to the area when there’s not really much else to do except go for a walk at the moment.

Is rework?! Should be “this”!!

Dogs should be trained properly and the owner in control - which is rarely true these days. When I look out of my drawing room window I see clueless owners being pulled along by their dogs. With so little control on the lead is it any wonder that there is next to nothing when off it. Harnesses don't help, they give no control over the direction of your dog's head - would you feel happy riding a horse if the reins were attached to the saddle?! No .... I am not suggesting that we put bits in a dog's mouth before some bright spark suggests that i am.

I can see that there is an argument for dogs on leads all the time-my fearful dog is constantly pestered by out of control dogs. However it seems unfair for dogs with good recall to have to be on short leads in rural areas and I think irresponsible owners would ignore the rule/it would be hard to enforce in the countryside. I wish people would use long lines more-the dog has a lot of freedom but it’s much safer. Many dogs that are let off should really be on a long line imo unless they have really perfect recall even around wildlife and other dogs which i think is actually quite rare. Not fair for them to be on a short lead though-longer leads should be used more often than they are I think

They have seals in London?

Not the point but if a dog is coming towards you why didn’t the seal jump in the water?

Dogs need to be kept undercontrol and on leads in urban areas and areas with livestock or wildlife.

Dogs need to be trained to be off lead in large areas which are safe for all.

Owners need to step up.

@Magnificentmug12

They have seals in London?

Not the point but if a dog is coming towards you why didn’t the seal jump in the water?

Yes, seals... Those creatures well known for their long legs and speedy gait when on land

the seal was sunbathing, as seals do apparently, lying on a bank at the side of the river

if you look at the photos, and I don't recommend you do because they are very graphic, he was attacked and the dog grabbed one of his flippers (turns out he broke the flipper which is why he was put to sleep) which meant he couldn't turn around and jump back into the river. Though the dog was a lot smaller, it did take 3 adults to pull him off the seal so he had that death grip on him and caused a lot of damage

@Kimye4eva yes I found it more sad than I normally would have done and I think you're right, that's why. And he just seemed so defenceless.