Off lead dogs approaching on lead dogs

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I have a 7 month old pup who is very boisterous and loves playing with other dogs, but he doesn't pick up on others dogs cues that he's being too rough, and since hitting the teenage phase his recall has completely gone to pot.

Due to these things I am trying to a responsible owner and keeping him on a lead, or in a large open place on a training line while we practice recall.

I'm getting really annoyed by the number of owners who just let their off lead dogs approach making absolutely no attempt to recall their dogs, usually small dogs so the owners seem to think because their dogs are small they're ok to approach who the hell they want.

It's so frustrating as I'm really trying my best to train him and it makes it really difficult when these dogs wander over and then my dog gets all over excited. I'm trying to teach him to ignore other dogs which is hard with unwelcome visitors!

I'm a first time dog owner and I just assumed there was an etiquette about on lead and off lead dogs... am I being too precious or are there just a lot of self absorbed knobhead owners where I live?!!

Rant over!!

I sometimes pick my dog up (cocker spaniel) because otherwise I can't get him to move - he is scared and because he is on lead and can't get away he can try to not continue walking towards something he perceives as a threat (once that was a pile of bush cuttings).

@PugInTheHouse mine had excellent recall at 6 months, but then the adolescent phase kicks in and recall often goes out of the window during this phase and you have to totally retrain! Just a pre warning in case it happens soon!

@pheasantsinlove I am ready and waiting he has just starting displaying some pretty teenage behaviour so I am expecting the recall to all go wrong soon. I think that is the point I was kind of making also, you do your best and also what you believe/know at one point what your dog will do, they then do something totally different. I don't think it's bad owners when a dog to approaches, it's bad owners if you don't try to teach them/stop them/call them back though.

Sorry to resurrect a zombie thread, but I was looking for a thread like this for some opinions.

I'm getting increasingly frustrated as it seems I can't let my Spaniel off his lead in woods and fields, in case a dog on lead appears round a corner .

I don't know where I am supposed to let mine run? He has reasonable recall, but not perfect. He loves other dogs and people.

The dogs with jackets that say ' do not approach' or ' keep your dog away from mine' ..to be honest, you can't see those until you get close to them, then it's too late. I find these passive aggressive ( or just plain aggressive) jackets a bit off anyway.

Am I really supposed to never let my dog off the lead just in case? why does a dog on a lead take priority over my dog needing some off lead time?

Also, if you have a dog that has to be on a lead all the time, when do they get to have run around?

When we got our dog 18 months ago , I didn't realise there would be so many entitled, selfish owners around who think that there dog is more important than everyone else's, and that all owners should fall in line with there needs.

@Bitzandbobsbitzandbobs it’s really not that hard.
Call your dog to heel while your going round the corner, if it’s clear let him go again and if not keep hold of him till you pass.

A dog on lead is not taking priority over yours. It’s just walking on a lead minding its own business presumably It’s not bothering or interacting with you in any way so how can it be in the wrong?

There’s a million and one reasons another dog or human might not want to be bothered, it’s probably to protect your dog a lot of the time. If your dog shoves it’s nose into a dogs face and gets bitten I bet you would be the first to moan.

My dogs are friendly thankfully but I don’t think people are being selfish trying to walk their dogs safely and in peace without being bothered by an off lead dog that isn’t under control. If you can’t recall him he shouldn’t be off lead it’s as simple as that.
It’s also none of your business whether the other dog is allowed to run off lead or not and it’s irrelevant to the argument. For years I had a dog who was never off lead because after being almost killed by a dog as a teenager she hated dogs in her space. She was as fit as a fiddle, we ran miles and miles every day plus she had acres of her own garden to run in, why would you judge me for not letting her off lead and keeping other people’s pets safe? Bit silly really that because you can’t seem to train a reliable recall that your putting the blame on others.

When we got our dog 18 months ago , I didn't realise there would be so many entitled, selfish owners around who think that there dog is more important than everyone else's, and that all owners should fall in line with there needs.

It's not remotely entitled to want to be able to walk your dog without strange dogs running into their space!

If you can't reliably recall your dog then, yes, you need to keep it on a bloody lead. You don't have a right to let your dog off just because you think he deserves to be able to have a run.

Hire a secure field for him if his recall isn't reliable yet, or use a long line that you can stamp on to stop him running off.

@Bitzandbobsbitzandbobs
'I don't know where I am supposed to let mine run? He has reasonable recall, but not perfect. He loves other dogs and people.'

The issue here is they don't love him. They don't find him cute and appealing. They don't want him running at them.

I am getting increasingly frustrated with not being able to go for a walk in the woods and fields without being hassled by out of control off lead dogs.

My reactive dog has excellent recall (i.e. he's scared so comes running back to me) so is always on a lead when we meet another dogs. Most dogs understand body language and leave him alone. Those that get in his face will get bitten. Sorry but I'm not sorry.

Train your dog, or keep him on a lead, or accept that the dogs will sort it out between themselves and he'll get a nip. It's not rocket science.

bitzandbobs I do agree with you.

Mind has reliable recall, it's not 100% because dogs are animals, not robots.

I'm vigilant and keep an eye out for on lead dogs, so get her back. But I'm not perfect either so may not recall in time.

I find the MN attitude towards dogs very odd, it feels like people are vilified for having well socialised, friendly dogs. It's entirely natural for them to want to greet other dogs. It's incredibly rare that I encounter the MN attitude in real life, most people love the socialisation and find the playing delightful to watch.

Being respectful of on lead dogs is a given, but I'm fed up of the negative attitude towards owners that socialise their dogs and just want to let them be happy through play and greeting.

@Stellaris22 these threads by their nature attract dog owners who have difficult reactive dogs. Their dogs are not that way through poor socialisation. They may be inherently nervous, or rescues who have had a harsh start to life, or have been attacked by off lead dogs in the past.

Management and rehabilitation of such dogs is difficult. £1000s on dog behaviourist fees, hours and hours of training, and the back to square one every time a a 'well socialised friendly' dog leaps in their face. Do you see the frustration?

If your dog really was well socialised it would understand the body language and dog social cues being given by the reactive dog. The fact it doesn't and proceeds to run at them suggests you have a lot of work to do in that respect. A well socialised dog will walk past giving it space because it message being given is 'back off mate I don't want to play'.

The negative attitude you are encountering is because you are not asking, you are assuming it is ok for your dog to charge at someone else's. Ask. I am delighted when someone asks if their dog can say hello. A controlled friendly introduction really helps my dog's confidence. There is a whole community of dog owners out there who get it. They are often ones who have owned nervous dogs in the past.

My DH's policy is to let the dog off when he sees an off lead one barreling towards us. That's him taking the same stance as you really. To be fair it probably is the best long term solution as the dogs work it out between themselves. The 'well socialised friendly' one gets a few warning nips and retreats having learnt some manners, and the reactive one is less nervous having able to defend it's space. I don't do that because people get precious about dear Fido getting nipped and go crazy.

Mine has been around dogs all her life, so socialised that way. She absolutely is capable of recognising nervous dogs and changes her behaviour completely, she's gentle and keeps her distance. We have a dog owner friend who fosters dogs and sings my dogs praises because of how she can adapt her behaviour.

I just find the attitude towards anyone with a friendly dog weird here, having a well socialised dog seems to be a bad thing.

'I just find the attitude towards anyone with a friendly dog weird here, having a well socialised dog seems to be a bad thing.'

????

That's not what people are saying at all. If your dog is off lead, gentle and keeps her distance then she's lovely and I'd be more than happy to meet her on a walk. Those are not the dogs we are talking about.

I tell you what, I'll lend you my dog for a week and then you'll get it. To be honest I never got it before the current dog either!

@Sexnotgender

God I hate this.

I’ve got 2 greyhounds, 1 is super nervous and obviously neither have recall so they get walked on lead.

Sick to fucking death of shit owners who allow their dogs with no recall to harass mine.

My sentiments precisely. My dog is nervous of bigger dogs, we’re working on it but progress is slow because of irresponsible dog owners who think they know it all!

Nobody has said having a friendly dog is a bad thing

However it should be a choice whether a person or dog wants to interact with yours. If they don’t want too that should also be fine but apparently some people don’t think so.

@Bitzandbobsbitzandbobs

Sorry to resurrect a zombie thread, but I was looking for a thread like this for some opinions.

I'm getting increasingly frustrated as it seems I can't let my Spaniel off his lead in woods and fields, in case a dog on lead appears round a corner .

I don't know where I am supposed to let mine run? He has reasonable recall, but not perfect. He loves other dogs and people.

The dogs with jackets that say ' do not approach' or ' keep your dog away from mine' ..to be honest, you can't see those until you get close to them, then it's too late. I find these passive aggressive ( or just plain aggressive) jackets a bit off anyway.

Am I really supposed to never let my dog off the lead just in case? why does a dog on a lead take priority over my dog needing some off lead time?

Also, if you have a dog that has to be on a lead all the time, when do they get to have run around?

When we got our dog 18 months ago , I didn't realise there would be so many entitled, selfish owners around who think that there dog is more important than everyone else's, and that all owners should fall in line with there needs.

My reactive rescue used to get a run around in a secure dog walking field which you can hire if your dog can’t be off lead much - you might want to look into it, there are such facilities all over the country. Can be very useful safe space for practising recall!! (But incidentally dogs don’t actually need that much intense exercise, trotting and sniffing is better for them, so it’s not something they need every day).

It’s not just reactive (not ‘badly socialised’) dogs who might not want yours leaping on them, some dogs may be walked on lead because they’re recovering from surgery, or elderly or even blind and totally unaware of where your dog is. Your dogs lack of recall could do all sorts of damage in any of those situations.

You don’t need to keep them on lead all the time. Just train recall till you can get them back either when you see an on lead dog approaching, or when they start to go out of your sight. If on lead dog comes close, you ask owner ‘hello is dog friendly? Would they like to play?’ If they give you a wide berth, presume otherwise. Problem solved and good dog etiquette established! It’s really really not hard!

@fairylightsandwaxmelts

When we got our dog 18 months ago , I didn't realise there would be so many entitled, selfish owners around who think that there dog is more important than everyone else's, and that all owners should fall in line with there needs.

It's not remotely entitled to want to be able to walk your dog without strange dogs running into their space!

If you can't reliably recall your dog then, yes, you need to keep it on a bloody lead. You don't have a right to let your dog off just because you think he deserves to be able to have a run.

Hire a secure field for him if his recall isn't reliable yet, or use a long line that you can stamp on to stop him running off.

Why should I hire a secure field ?

Why don't owners with dogs that can't be off a lead hire a secure field?

This is what I am getting at, in the world of dog etiquette why in the great outdoors - woods and field - should my dog be kept on a lead just in case we meet nervous dogs?

It seems opinion is split on this anyway judging by the replies.

I'll keep working on the dogs recall - which because he's not a highly trained bred solely for work dog will never be 100 % - and see if that can achieve more of a balance.

“This is what I am getting at, in the world of dog etiquette why in the great outdoors - woods and field - should my dog be kept on a lead just in case we meet nervous dogs?”

Because your dog’s behaviour is your responsibility...

Also, it’s not really etiquette tbh, legally Dog’s in public spaces should be under control. With good recall that can be offlead, but with dodgy recall or a dog that’s scared of other dogs or any other behavioural issue like that people use a lead instead.

Why should I hire a secure field ?

Because you're the one who is insisting that your dog should be allowed off the lead when you know it has no recall, which is completely irresponsible and potentially very dangerous. The owners with the on-lead dogs aren't doing anything wrong by having their dogs on the lead.

This is what I am getting at, in the world of dog etiquette why in the great outdoors - woods and field - should my dog be kept on a lead just in case we meet nervous dogs?

Because your dog is your responsibility.

By law, a dog that is on lead is under control. When your off-lead dog approaches and can't be recalled, they are out of control and making a nuisance of themselves (at best) and putting themselves in danger (at worst).

By letting your dog off-lead, you are putting it at risk of approaching an (on-lead) dog that reacts and bites it - and it would be your fault for having an out of control dog. It doesn't even need to approach other dogs to be in danger - it could knock over a child or elderly person (again, illegal because your dog would be out of control) or it could run off and get onto a busy road, or into a field with livestock and end up getting itself shot.

Why would you risk putting your dog in any of those situations when you could just use a lead?

But it's not just nervous or reactive dogs that are on lead.

On one of her very first walks my dog got ran at and rolled over (simply because it slammed into it, couldn't stop in time) by a very friendly over enthusiastic off lead dog. I am lucky to have a confident dog, a timid puppy would probably have had a lot of repercussions from that incident.

I have no issue with off lead dogs as long as they don't approach my on lead dog without their owner checking first. I am trying to teach mine not to be so dog focussed as she is over enthusiastic in her greeting, so a dog just running up to play undermines my training and sets us back each and every time. I also prefer the chance to warn other owners that she is bouncy as if their dog is not as bouncy it gives them chance to avoid the greeting as they know their dog better than me.

*Why should I hire a secure field ?

Why don't owners with dogs that can't be off a lead hire a secure field?*

We do! The amount I’ve spent on secure fields… are you really suggesting on lead dogs shouldn’t be allowed out in public ever, just so you can be free to not keep yours under control?!

You should perhaps consider hiring a secure field to do some recall practise in a safe space where your dog isn’t at risk of all the potential consequences PPs have already mentioned. Obviously no dog has literally 100% recall, but if you regularly don’t have full control when you are walking around distractions then it’s not good enough and, as others have pointed out, illegal.

Going back to the discussion about how these debates play out on this board - I think it's true that the Doghouse has a bias towards owners who know an unusual amount about dogs, whether it's breeding, training, etiquette, the law etc. Same as lots of specialist boards on Mumsnet - eg the conversations in Education are not typical of the conversations you'd hear at the average school gate. By definition the people who post a lot in a specialist board tend to be invested and have done a lot of homework.

So I think for the 'average' dog owner, esp post-pandemic when loads of people are dog owners for the first time, reading the consensus on here about things like off-lead dogs can be a bit bewildering. On my average walk with DDog, 90% of dogs I see are off-lead (forest area) and plenty of them are definitely not 'under control' by the standards of posters here! But most of those also aren't aggressive - they're just imperfectly trained dogs having a run about.

So yes this board is only one view and is not highly representative of owners I'd say, but I find it really useful. I had no idea what it meant when I saw dogs on leads before - I tended to think the owners were worried about losing them or something. Since reading on here about reactive/anxious dogs on leads I have (I hope) been much more considerate when I see those dogs on our walks. I have a spaniel too and no, not perfect recall, but I either put the lead on him or walk him in a different direction (he always follows where I go) or chuck his tennis ball in the opposite direction to make sure he doesn't come close to the on-lead dog. (He's not a big one for actually approaching other dogs.)

So while I don't share the expertise or tbh the viewpoint of everyone who posts here, I do find the insights really useful and feel like they're probably making me a better owner, albeit slowly...