Off lead dogs approaching on lead dogs

[cutthebs]

I have a 7 month old pup who is very boisterous and loves playing with other dogs, but he doesn't pick up on others dogs cues that he's being too rough, and since hitting the teenage phase his recall has completely gone to pot.

Due to these things I am trying to a responsible owner and keeping him on a lead, or in a large open place on a training line while we practice recall.

I'm getting really annoyed by the number of owners who just let their off lead dogs approach making absolutely no attempt to recall their dogs, usually small dogs so the owners seem to think because their dogs are small they're ok to approach who the hell they want.

It's so frustrating as I'm really trying my best to train him and it makes it really difficult when these dogs wander over and then my dog gets all over excited. I'm trying to teach him to ignore other dogs which is hard with unwelcome visitors!

I'm a first time dog owner and I just assumed there was an etiquette about on lead and off lead dogs... am I being too precious or are there just a lot of self absorbed knobhead owners where I live?!!

Rant over!!

There's also been an increase of people with new puppies who scoop them up every 5 seconds when another dog comes in sight or start frantically yelling for us to get our dogs. Again said dogs are running around the open space playing with each other and minding their own business. I would put money on some of these lockdown puppies becoming reactive as they get older as they've got owners who are teaching them to be terrified of everything.

Alternatively, their puppies have already had negative experiences and they're scared it's going to happen again.

I walk a young dog who was attacked a few weeks ago. He was just minding his own business on a lead, when the other owner lost control and her dog ran up to mine and tried to bite him several times.

Whenever they see each other now, my dog reacts (not surprisingly) and it's easier and safer for me to scoop him up and walk past.

Please don't judge owners who choose to lift up their dogs, or who choose to turn away from you, or hide behind a car. Living and working with a reactive dog is bloody difficult and it only takes one episode to ruin months of hard work.

I've also had more negative experiences walking during lockdowns and it's precisely the 'he's only being friendly' brigade that has done it; people who can't understand the very clear signal that calling your dog back and clipping a lead on it means that you don't want to interact with their dog, whatever your reasons.

Same here. I got the filthiest look off an owner this morning for getting the two dogs I was walking to sit quietly off the path instead of interacting with hers.

One was injured yesterday and is on slow lead walks for a few days while he recovers from limber tail. I don't want him interacting with strange dogs and potentially snapping through pain. But this lady chose to judge me - probably as a "fussy" owner, instead

My dogs just had a big operation, with a lot of healing time, the cones off but we need to be careful, he has blind dog printed all over his bright yellow lead and people still let their dogs run up to him and harass him. They look at you like your an absolute arse when you ask them to call their dogs away and explain mine needs to be kept calm. It’s like the year know they are in the wrong but how dare you bring it to their attention

I completely understand that dogs are reactive and it can be due to past incidents with uncontrolled dogs.

I just find it's quite common now (with off lead dogs, I am careful of on lead dogs) that when I ask a simple question 'is it ok for my dog to say hello' that I get ignored by the owner. I don't get this. If it's an issue that your dog can't play then a simple 'please don't' is helpful, pointedly ignoring is unhelpful.

Alternatively, their puppies have already had negative experiences and they're scared it's going to happen again.
Which I would understand if there were dogs close to them, but in each situation I've seen it's been half a field or more away.
An owner signalling to a young puppy that any dog in eyesight is a threat is projecting their fears onto the dog.

Please don't judge owners who choose to lift up their dogs, or who choose to turn away from you, or hide behind a car. Living and working with a reactive dog is bloody difficult and it only takes one episode to ruin months of hard work.
I agree that it's hard having a reactive dog. I'll never dispute that.

I also think that there are owners out there who instead of socialising their puppies appropriately, teach their puppies to be fearful of everything. There's been more of that the places I walk regularly during lockdown (though walking areas are quieter now so I'm guessing there's a lot of new puppies who are no longer getting as much exercise and socialisation now people are finding other things to do).
Unfortunately that's likely to promote very reactive behaviour and I'd be willing to bet that when their fun puppy is displaying reactive behaviour they'll be taking the poor dog to the rescue and blame the dog.

It's hard work socialising a puppy well and training them. I don't believe the majority of people who acquired puppies during lockdown are likely to put the required effort into doing this properly and it is the poor dogs who suffer.

Which I would understand if there were dogs close to them, but in each situation I've seen it's been half a field or more away. An owner signalling to a young puppy that any dog in eyesight is a threat is projecting their fears onto the dog.

Alternatively, they know their dogs' threshold and are trying to prevent a reaction (barking, lunging, snarling).

I don't disagree with you that some owners do overreact but I don't think it's helpful to assume that all owners are doing that. Just assume they have a good reason and don't take it personally.

Just keep your dog away from on-lead dogs. If the owner chooses to pick their dog up, that's their choice at the end of the day. It doesn't have to affect you.

Just be grateful you're not the one dealing with a dog who reacts to others, because it really makes dog ownership very difficult. My own dog reacts after he was a attacked by two "friendly" dogs as a puppy - I no longer believe owners when they tell me their dog is friendly, I'm afraid. Most owners don't understand body language and are blind the their dogs' faults.

As a dog walker, I only let my dog (and dogs in my care) interact with dogs I know. It's not worth the risk otherwise.

sunflowersandbuttercups
I don't take it personally. I just find it annoying when the odd idiot starts yelling across the field at dogs who are nowhere near or scooping the dog up when there's nobody close. It's hardly the sort of behaviour that promotes decent socialisation and it makes me sad that some owners are sending messages to their poor dogs that will only build fear.

I had a lovely chat with someone who stepped to 1 side, called to me and my off lead dogs to ask if they're ok as they were trying to have positive interactions. I said yes and offered to put them on lead if they'd prefer. On other occasions we've played with puppies on long lines when their owners were working on recall. Other times they're called back to me and clipped back on the lead. I'm fairly easy going as long as everyone involved is polite, but I get a bit short if people aren't (which includes telling one owner near me to call her dogs every time I see them because I'm fed up with her little poorly trained things jumping at my legs for treats).

I don't take it personally. I just find it annoying when the odd idiot starts yelling across the field at dogs who are nowhere near or scooping the dog up when there's nobody close. It's hardly the sort of behaviour that promotes decent socialisation and it makes me sad that some owners are sending messages to their poor dogs that will only build fear.

But as I said, some dogs will react at that distance. If your dog has been pinned and attacked/bitten by "friendly" dogs it's only natural to panic. It may not be healthy, but it's relatively normal.

Like I said, just be grateful it's not your dog who's been attacked and accept that other owners will do what feels necessary to keep themselves and their dog safe.

There are going to be a lot of really poorly socialised puppies this year but I'm not sure letting them loose with a load of random unknown fully grown dogs is the way to manage that.

I think lockdown is probably the very worst time to to get a puppy because it's impossible to socialise them properly with other dogs or people but clearly lots of people don't agree.

@Clymene

There are going to be a lot of really poorly socialised puppies this year but I'm not sure letting them loose with a load of random unknown fully grown dogs is the way to manage that.

I think lockdown is probably the very worst time to to get a puppy because it's impossible to socialise them properly with other dogs or people but clearly lots of people don't agree.

Yep, totally agree with this.

Socialisation is not about letting your dog play with every dog they meet. You want lots of positive interactions. I don't want my dog interacting with strange dogs - you never know what their personality is like.

Clymene
I agree. It doesn't have to be let them off with randoms, but there's probably a lot of people who've got lockdown puppies without thinking about what is required to have a well trained, well socialised dog and a dog who can be provided for once lockdown ends.

Given responsible owners who already have dogs are still walking regularly, there's ample opportunity to socialise safely. We've seen a few people doing what we did when one of ours was young: long line training in big open spaces and carefully managed interactions.

I probably sound quite negative, but lockdown has made me quite concerned about the sheer number of puppies that seem to have appeared on my usual routes. I don't doubt some will be reactive from past trauma, but others clearly have owners who haven't a clue what they're doing and it's not the owner who will be paying the price for their shit owner behaviour. Then add in that the number of dogs being walked seemed to drop during the January/February lockdown compared to last summer, are all these puppies getting proper training and socialisation in their first year? If the puppy develops a range of reactive behaviours/the owner decides that a dog doesn't fit their post lockdown life / they decide they don't want to put the time and effort in / the children are bored of the dog, the poor puppy gets rehomed. I'm sure the owners will say they had no choice, the behaviour wasn't manageable, they were so reactive, but their poor owner behaviours and trigger happy puppy buying caused the problem.

There are some people who have irresponsibly bought puppies during lockdown it's true, however not everyone who has a puppy falls into this category. We spent 2 years making the decision to get a dog after coming to terms with infertility. Our puppy was born at a UK rescue centre and is a total mongrel.. not at all one of these trendy type puppies! We spent months researching food, training, dog behaviour. And being vetted by the rescue centre. It was late September when we got him, no one who got a puppy last year thought we'd still be in such strict lockdown now. It had made training more difficult, we had booked puppy socialisation classes and dog training classes with a well recommended dog trainer but it all got cancelled due to Covid restrictions.

We're trying our best and our dog is brilliant, the best thing in the world. He gets to run off lead a few times a week in a quiet field, he gets socialised as best we can by us taking him to lots of places to meet and see people and other dogs. I understand from what people have said on here that maybe I'm being too precious being annoyed at off lead dogs approaching when he's on the long line (which tends to be at weekends when the quiet field is never completely quiet as there's a ramblers footpath through it hence off lead dogs), but I don't think I'm in the wrong believing that off lead dogs should not approach dogs on short leads.

cutthebs
As an owner who took the time to research and plan, I'm you are also responsible, give your dog enough exercise, are training them in a range of situations, arranging for your puppy to be appropriately socialised etc.If you're doing long line training and the norms aren't clear in your area (whereas where I walk my dogs long line is like off lead unless the owner says to keep your mutts away because they don't want distraction ) then a polite and clear "keep your dog away please. We are training" will be fine.

You're probably not going to be the sort of owner who sees me and my dogs minding our own business and start loudly making a fuss to your dog, whilst yelling at mine (who are nowhere near and weren't paying any attention to the random human half way across the grass). I'd also guess that as a responsible owner you'll be exercising your dog regularly and will probably come to recognise the same dogs you see regularly, whereas after a huge flurry of new puppies in my area, we only see a handful of them on our regular walks these days.

Thought if this thread last night. Took ddog to usual spot in the country lanes, so of lead.

In one of the field was a lady with a quite large dog on a very long training dog. My small dog was doing his usual, focusing on the ball we were about to throw. The other dog got down in the ground and was watching ddog.

As ddog got closer, he started to show sign of approaching the other dog slowly. I looked at the dog and assessed he was unlikely to be dangerous. I then looked at the owner, smiled and they just smiled back so I took this as all was ok.

Other dog stood up and came to ddog quite energetically but not aggressive at all. Let them smell/play. The owner asked if it was ok and said that she gets a bit nervous when her dog approached small dogs as he is quite hyper and this can scare the owner of small dogs. I said that it was an issue with ddog and he would run to me if it got too much. They were pleased their dog got to interact with ddog.

End of. No nastiness, no disrespect, no judgement or grumpiness. That's a typical experience for me since having ddog and I don't understand why there seems to be so much conflict on MN about these situations.

I agree @dontdisturbmenow - all the dog owners round here are sensible, courteous and understanding.

My old rescue boy is reactive to uneutered males, so is always on a lead. I know who to avoid among the regulars - new dogs might run up to him, he might react. It inevitably results in a conversation about reactivity and rescue dogs.

Sorry @cutthebs but I think you are not being reasonable or realistic in expecting to be able to train "in peace" in an open dog walking area. A big part of training, and where the long line is useful, is "come away from distractions" - but you need the distractions of other dogs to be able to properly train it. Your dog coming to you when in a field with just you is VERY different to being on a dog walk.

I would suggest chatting to other dog walkers, maybe finding a nice group with nice dogs (in my area it was the local park after dropping kids at school time. Lovely family friendly dogs) and become a regular, find people who are supportive in helping you train ddog and who are understanding when it goes wrong.

For most of us watching the dogs interact and play is a big part of our enjoyment on a walk. We stop and smile, pass the time of day with the other owners and move on saying "enjoy your walk".

The only people I know who don't enjoy it, and avoid it, are the serious obedience and working dog crowd. I do obedience but have had to come off a couple of obedience groups because of the negativity to pet owners and dogs simply enjoying being dogs.

catsrus dontdisturbmenow
I totally agree. Most dog walkers are polite, courteous and reasonable.
I'm so grateful that when we were training dog #1 as a puppy, most people were understanding of the short lead, reasonable when we were long line training, happy for their dogs to play with puppy, and generally helpful. I gained lots of tips and tricks from people we saw regularly, and now our dogs are happy to run around with lots of dogs they know well.

The fact our experiences have been largely positive is probably why some of the more rude/unreasonable/odd behaviour has stood out more during lockdown.

This is largely my experience with other dog owners too, being friendly and approachable is so much better than shouting and being rude.

We have a lovely 'doggy pack' we socialise with most mornings, and since ddog was a puppy. We've learned loads from other owners and their dogs. Being able to interact with other owners is really important and honestly, fun as you get to share doggy stories.

I'd always say that owners need to be friendly themselves as it's so beneficial to your dog. Even owners with reactive and rescue dogs come over for careful interaction (one man fosters rescues and this group massively helps dogs in his care).

I find it odd that anyone with a dog that needs to be picked up from half a field away would put their dog in a stressful situation like that. If it's genuine then they need to walk in areas where dogs aren't playing as it does seem mean to blame happy, sociable dogs for just wanting to interact.

Thing is I almost don't recognise this concept of the idyllic dog pack scenario - I say almost because the closest I've known is, weirdly enough, central London where I encountered almost no problems walking my dogs in the busiest parks. Admittedly this was pre-covid so the dynamic may have changed now, but with only rare exceptions the dogs seemed to have a great understanding of body language and behaviour, engaged in reciprocal play and were under their owner's close control if anyone needed to tap out. Bit of a sweeping generalisation but I spent a lot of time visiting in the before times and it was pretty consistent.

Out here in the sticks it's just a free for all. Believe me, I didn't set out intending to become so uptight about it all but the evidence of many years has shown me that, if I unclench and let my dog interact freely with others, they will end up intimidated, hurt and bullied into fighting back and basically schooled into being a reactive dog through bad experience. I have learnt not to trust people because more often than not they have no control over their dog, nor do they recognise this as a problem.

These are also not 'dog playing areas' where you might reasonably expect loose dogs gambolling about wanting to meet others, these are interactions on remote footpaths where you're just out for a walk to decompress, take exercise and to bond with your dog. Not everybody wants to socialise with other dog owners beyond a cheery good morning, although I appreciate I am coming at that from the working/sports dog point of view, I get my dog chat fix at training.

I agree @currahee the parks around me off lead dogs tend to be well behaved ones who don't approach other dogs and just play ball with their owners, dogs off lead that do approach other dogs are seen as not having responsible owners. Also I walk my dog in different locations most days and definitely have a rotation of areas that we visit at weekends, so I guess one poster would assume I'm a lazy dog owner who doesn't walk their dog everyday because I'm not on their daily route everyday!!!

@JayAlfredPrufrock
When we first got Ddog I did worry about her getting enough exercise because she's always on lead. I just walked further to compensate and I'm lucky enough to have a garden big enough for her to run after tennis balls 3-4 times a day too. She is a nightmare for sniffing every blade of grass so we pootle rather than walk briskly 😁. As she's got older, she's found walking everyday very stressful so it's usually every other day now with playing in the garden in between. The vet said she's in remarkable health and condition for a geriatric dog, so I think she's getting enough exercise 😁

Mine is put on his lead if I see dogs ahead with leads on, as that's the rules, but stuff happens like people see him and then put theirs on a lead by which time it's too late for me to call him back - he's lovely with other dogs but I absolutely get that some dogs can't be approached on leads. The problem is for me that bellowing down the field after him (when I know he's going to ignore me) is loads scarier for the people at the other end. So I don't - I do go over to get him back but I might look like I'm making no effort to get him back before that. People picking their dogs up into the air is just asking for it.

We are relatively new dog owners, pup is 6 months and has really good recall. We are working on a no game cue to stop him approaching until we check it is ok. His recall is very consistant but stopping him approaching is not 100% yet. My understanding is that you shouldn't let your dog approach a dog on a short lead.

If he doesn't stop going towards a dog on a lead then I will call to the owners quick to check it is ok for him to come over, if not I call him back and so far he has only not come back once. The time he didn't come back the owner had actually said it was fine but I had mistaken a no pull lead for a muzzle so thought he shouldn't go over and upset the other dog.

We are working really hard with him and my assumption is that you need to check its ok for pup to socialise with a dog on the lead (either short lead or a long line pulled in short), if dog is running 'free' on a long line then I would assume it is the same as dogs off lead but just that they are practicing recall. We had 3 off lead dogs approach and circle my puppy when he was on a lead when he was really small, he doesn't care at all but I was a bit nervous and the owner wasn't even watching them.

We ask every time and try so hard to ensure he comes back or waits to go over but like every dog it is impossible to know if he will do it every single time. Our only real incident was him running to a bike and luckily the cyclist slowed down as he saw him. His recall had been so good so we had no idea he would react that way to a bike, we now know that wheels do seem to make him run over to them to chase them.

"People picking their dogs up into the air is just asking for it."

Asking for what? Your dog to jump up at them? If you can't call it back then it has no business being off a lead at all.

I would concentrate on making him sit when a dog approaches. Give him a hign value treat if he stays calm and doesnt go nuts. I wouldnt use an extendable line as they are dangerous.

There are always going to be dog owners and ddogs out there with bad manners. Always

My dog has good recall but I also find it irritating when people just pick up their small dogs. It does make recall much more difficult as it then turns into something exciting to investigate.

If the dog stayed on the ground mine would be much less interested. But as soon as it gets picked up it becomes interesting.

Owners are being protective, I get that, but it is not helpful. If it's on lead I'll keep my dog away and on lead, there's no need to pick it up.