Puppy Survival Thread - March - April

[PugInTheHouse]

Just starting a new thread before we run out on www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_doghouse/4141698-Puppy-Survival-Thread-January-February

Welcome to everyone trying to survive the puppy days!

Just got back from the vets, he has a cough (infection). He has some anti inflammatories.

She also said he needs to lose a kilo, I am gutted as we have been so careful with his food. I suspect its training treats (although I reduced his meals to account for it but clearly not enough). He doesnt really need treats for training other than for recall and perhaps staying away from other dogs etc if need be so that can definitely be cut out at home. She said lots of exercise as long as it's not too hot out. I was always worried about overdoing it so its really so confusing.

Any ideas re food for him? Any tips for reducing the calories at all? Would butternut box help or do you think they over count it also (I suspect the food companies say to use more than they actually need to sell more)

Dpup 1 is definitely in heat now, classic baboons bottom. She seems to be dealing with it ok but not so cuddly as normal. took dpup2 out by herself as she's not in season yet. dpup1 did training in the garden instead.

Hi all - am identifying strongly with the older pup issues especially sleep. I've created a total pickle for us as when Puppy pup was so ill I didn't want to leave him over night so slept downstairs with him and he was out of his crate. So now - he sleeps beautifully downstairs out of crate as long as I am sleeping on the sofa. Like you @PugInTheHouse am a bit gutted as the sleep was the one thing I thought we'd done ok with. Anyway I have to address. I have tried him one night in our bedroom and he was ok but there is much more for him to interfere with up there and I don't want to have to totally puppy proof it.

He's also been a bit nippy sometimes when tired and over stimulated - only of me but is grabbing my trousers etc and sometimes catches my leg which is bloody annoying. He is a LOT better though at bringing me a toy to play with when he is like that so he does know what to do really!

Puppypup's recall is pretty good generally but he is still on the long lead as I just don't trust him around distractions and he is so over excited by other dogs.

@PugInTheHouse we do butternut boxes - I find it really easy, Puppypup likes the food and I don't have to think about portion size. Am grateful every day he's back eating normally and off the endless chicken and rice!

@SpreadHummusNotHate barking is starting to be a thing here too. there seem to be loads of workmen setting him off. How are you tackling? I am trying to teach 'quiet' but it's slow going.

@PugInTheHouse Sorry to hear that. I'm always reluctant to advise on food as it's so controversial. Did your vet have any tips? I think I'd be reluctant to switch food as you could potentially risk him gaining more weight if you know what I mean? Whereas if you stick with what you're on but reduce portion size/treats at least you know he's getting less calories. How much exercise is he getting currently? I don't know much about pugs but now he's 6 months could he be getting a bit more?

@Puppypuppypuppy I’m probably not doing a very good job of tackling it, I find it so annoying.
She barks at her reflection in the tv - I have the tv on but muted
She barks at chews we give her - I take it away or hold it for her
She barks at me whilst I’m making dinner - I try and ignore as I think this is for attention

She doesn’t seem to bark at the door or anything

@PugInTheHouse - if he seems ok on the food you are giving him I’d maybe just try and cut down on treats and up the exercise a bit? Are there any lower calorie treats he could have - HummusPup loves blueberries and carrots?

@GooodMythicalMorning hope pup is doing ok - I am dreading our pup coming into season might have to book some secure fields as lead walking is a disaster. I would like to get her spayed but keeping her still for a week after the op...I don’t know how we would do that!! @ashmts was your pup spayed recently...i think she is a spaniel too...? If so how did you find it? Sorry if I’m getting you mixed up with someone else!!

@SpreadHummusNotHate That's my worry too, she bounds everywhere and jumps up to the sofa, I can't see her being still for long, although she has been a bit calmer and restful with her heat. hopefully the conservatory will be done soon so I can give her her own space if needed. I'm still unsure about walks but keeping her entertained in our big gated garden (I mention this as hoping no other dogs can get to her)

@PugInTheHouse That's a brilliant second night, well done!

@ashmts I ended up calling the vet back as they didn't really give me any info and they said to just go onto kibble and only use the daily allowance for treats also, don't even vary the treats. Sounds miserable lol!! They recommended me trying Specific which is the vet recommended brand.

@SpreadHummusNotHate he loves blueberries so can definitely use those. Had just started upping the exercise but he's had this cold and now cough so I wasn't sure about doing much till I'd see the vet.

@GooodMythicalMorning I was so pleased and surprised!!

Re food and weight - I think I said before what I do roughly... but...

I only use wet food in kongs or lickimats, some days just the one, if I’ve zoom meetings then then too, lol.

Dry food - so he’s had about 2/3 of a breakfast, but not in a bowl, we did a 20 minute session at breakfast time to give him that because I do prefer to have a mealtime... makes toileting easier to predict, the rest has gone in my pocket to use in the house as and when for rewards.

Lunch today will be slowly hand fed in my car (I’m hoping I can have the engine running this time lol) if pocket breakfast is done, I’ll keep some again. Some days it’s crate training.

Dinner is being used to get him near my DP though it’s not making a huge amount of difference so I might rethink that, I’ve been trying to get a trainer to do a session with me for about a week and a half because currently that issue is very hard to live with.

On walks I use a mix of the dry food and higher value stuff... that way it kind of spreads it out a bit.

I only use a bowl if it suits me to for time the odd meal.

So in theory I could cut his food down quite significantly and I doubt he’d actually notice as so few of his meals are just, put it down and he eats it.

@PugInTheHouse Our old vet advised dry kibble and nothing else on two occasions (both unnecessary and inappropriate, confirmed by new vet). It's miserable and for us was unpleasant, verging on impossible. I'm sure it is the most sensible option but the cynic in me says it's also just the easiest option for the vet to advise a lot of the time. I mean we'd all lose weight on a diet of just chicken and veg but none of us stick to that (humans, I mean). If you need to add in some low calorie treats for everyone's sanity I wouldn't judge you. I've never heard of Specific so can't comment on that. Hopefully once he's over his cold and you can up the walks a bit he'll drop some weight.

@SpreadHummusNotHate Yep she was spayed last Tuesday and she is indeed a spaniel, but a cocker. Working type though so probably about as mad. It's actually not been quite as bad as I expected, for the first day or two she was quite sleepy so it was easy to keep her rested. She came home in a surgical suit instead of the cone so she's not been uncomfortable sleeping or anything. She's been quite bouncy since her wound check on Friday though and it looks like it's bled a wee bit. We're lucky that DP is a nurse so he's keeping an eye on it and says it looks fine. I'm just a worrier. We've been keeping walks to a minimum, short lead walks round the street only. At first I was taking her out on lead to the garden but the last few days I've been letting her out to potter cos she's been okay. The jumping has been bad though, she jumps on and off the sofa. At one point over the weekend we were in the garden doing some training and I turned round and she had jumped onto the garden table. I'm trying not to stress about it, we're all doing our best. One more week before it should have healed so I'll be able to let you know better then. In an ideal world I'd have waited till she was a bit older/calmer/trained to keep off the sofa before we'd spayed, but next door have a 5 month old male cocker and it was just too risky.

@ashmts thats exactly my thoughts. I said on the phone I could take a small % out for apple and carrot and she said no need. I probably will give him a little bit of variety. However I think chicken and veg for me is necessary to lose all this lockdown weight

Thanks @tabulahrasa that's really helpful. I will definitely use some wet stuff in kong/lickimat also for my sanity lol!

@PugInTheHouse are you still in touch with your breeder? Mine said when we got her to ignore the vet if they tell you they’re overweight when they are puppies as they need it when they’re growing and they will even out so it might be worth dropping your breeder a message to see what they think?

@WeeM I am, I will contact her. I didnt mention in here that when I called them back I asked the receptionist what his weight was so I could keep an eye on it when I reduce his food and she said but he's only 6 months he should be putting on weight so not to worry, she only mentioned swapping the food once I said the vet said he needed to lose some. She seemed really surprised, she had seen him there earlier so she could see his size.

[quote PugInTheHouse]@WeeM I am, I will contact her. I didnt mention in here that when I called them back I asked the receptionist what his weight was so I could keep an eye on it when I reduce his food and she said but he's only 6 months he should be putting on weight so not to worry, she only mentioned swapping the food once I said the vet said he needed to lose some. She seemed really surprised, she had seen him there earlier so she could see his size.[/quote]
@PugInTheHouse mine is like a wee barrel now...I swear she grows every time she’s asleep now

That’s good, hopefully should be fine then. I’m the same as you I just try to reduce her kibble a bit to account for chews/treats but it’s not an exact science!

I was told that too by our (bulldog breeder) that they need it as puppies, and then you can drop it when they're adult.

Hmm...

Being overweight as a puppy is about the worst thing you can do for their joints btw...tiny puppies will be a bit chunky, but once they’re up and about, they don’t need any extra weight.

@tabulahrasa to be fair you can feel his ribs pretty easily and see his waistline so he can't be massively overweight. The vet did mention that due to the build of a pug they won't look like other dogs if you look at healthy weight charts but that he should be less than he is. 6 weeks ago a different vet said he was the perfect weight so I am surprised that he is now a kilo over to be honest but I am not going to ignore the vet's advice as I have no experience with it all.

He's hardly skinny so it won't hurt for him to weigh less anyway.

One of the (many) things I panicked about when we first got stillpup was that he was overweight. Our vet said there's more of a tolerance with puppies but too much weight could affect the joints and might cause diabetes. She advised me to follow the packet instructions and we'll just monitor his weight. She said he has a defined waist and good body shape so he's fine for now. It's hard because the packet goes by his adult weight.. I've no idea how much he's going to weigh! I underfeed him at meals and feed the rest as treats/as part of games (along with nice treats too, I'm not a monster!)

No idea about other breeds though! Pugs always look chunky, not sure I'd have a clue if one was overweight or not!

@StillAliveish yes pugs are generally heavier set so it is harder to tell apparently, also like with most breeds the weight varies hugely as an adult. His weight has always been over a kilo more than the average but his height and length has also been more so that all makes sense. Like I say, 6 weeks ago he was fine and now a kilo over so I was surprised.

I based my calculations on the average adult weight, which is less than what he would likely be being on the bigger side, and male as they are potentially a kilo or 2 heavier. So he is getting less overall than the recommended amount, plus I take some off for treats so I have no idea why he is overweight.

I am more than happy to give new food a go and to reduce amounts. The new food instructions seem more sensible, they give an age range plus a weight of the pup so I can basically feed him the amount for the weight I want him to be as opposed to the weight he is. Also the amount in grams is higher for the new food but presumably lighter in calories per gram. This will probably suit a pug

@PugInTheHouse

Oh obviously I have no opinion on the weight of wee pugpup, I’ve never met him

It was more the - needing extra weight as a puppy then taking it off as an adult I was hmming at. It’s really terrible for their joints.

And yeah, a pug is never going to look like some other breeds no matter how lean they are, rofl ... but I also find people (I don’t mean you, just in general) don’t realise that even with stockier dogs, they’re still supposed to have a shape that isn’t round. I often got comments from random people about needing to put weight on my rottie, he had a waist, visible undertuck, you could just see the edge of his last rib, but the rest were nicely covered - so bang on an ideal weight.

Oh I wasn't saying it wasn't a good thing, I was just saying my breeder also said this. My girls are fed the recommended amount and are at the right weight and size for their age.

@tabulahrasa the weight thing has always been a worry of mine as we just want to make sure he was never overweight. Some pugs I have seen are extremely overweight and its really upsetting to see. Unfortunately there are too many social media pages with fat pugs that people think are cute so people love to overfeed them.

There is a good weight chart showing what pugs should look like and pugpup is the higher end of ideal I think but not overweight according to the chart. I don't think we'll ever see his ribs as he eats enough leaves to keep at a healthy weight I reckon without any of his actual food

I am going to weigh him tonight at home without his lead and harness on so I can monitor his weight at home.

I was going to say @PugInTheHouse, have you seen the Cambridge uni pug weight chart with the pictures...it’s helpful I think. that’s prob the one you are referring to. Weepup’s breeder contributed to that and that’s her relative in the pics

@PugInTheHouse 6 months onwards was when the vet started commenting on Happy's weight too. I think Happy is carrying an extra bit of weight but it's coincided with him having to go back on the long lead. Compared to how much he was running before on his walks, he's probably covering a third of the distance as he's essentially tethered to me!

It's also difficult when they are food thieves or hoover up stuff outside all the time

@WeeM ah thats so funny, yes thats the one, he looks in the middle really but obviously that means he's not skinny lol.

@HappyThursdays that would make sense though, it's so hard getting it right, especially if their exercise is limited in any way. I was a bit gutted this morning as we have tried so hard to be strict with his food, DS2 was really upset bless him but I told him not to worry.

Now the vet has said they are happy for us to up his exercise I have told DH to step it up. He takes him for his morning walks and is usually gone around 25 mins, which is fine if he is having another walk also however I was chatting to DS2 this afternoon and he said that apparently DH walks slowly so it takes 25 mins, so they are walking the same route (round a couple of blocks) that took 15/20 before but slower so it takes longer, he has completely misunderstood the point of upping the time I seriously despair!!! I have said to take him out to the park, takes 8-10 mins there, let him run around for 15 mins then walk the 8-10 mins back.