5 mins exercise for each month for puppies

[TheOriginalMrsMoss]

I see and read this all the time but is there really solid evidence behind it?

How do working collie pups and other working dogs limit themselves to this level of exercise? Plenty of wild dogs and wolves don't limit movement in this way. Surely their joints are not dissimilar to pet or working dogs.

I protect her joints but not going up/down stairs and lifting into the car. I have mostly stuck to this for formal walks but my dog has so much energy and is much happier after energetic exercise.

What do others think?

It’s not a hard and fast rule - it’s about limiting particular kinds of exercise, so things like on lead at your pace not theirs and fast paced twisty games like fetch... so until they’ve built up muscle tone they can set their own pace and have the chance to rest if needed.

It’s not meant to include off lead mooching about though.

So yeah, it does all correlate to the research showing that gentle exercise is totally fine, but keep faster paced stuff little and often until they’ve built up muscle gradually.

Collies wouldn’t be working much under a year, just wandering about near grown up working dogs, wild dogs/wolves don’t hunt as youngsters...

A lot of people seem to misunderstand how it relates to research showing that it’s the type of activity that’s an issue, but that’s because it was never supposed to be a strict rule about total exercise, just a rule of thumb to use for enforced/high pace stuff.

Thanks - that makes much more sense than the hard and fast rule. We can easily spend 1-1.5 hours at the park but much of it is gentle mooching and sniffing. I'm much more of a stroller than a fast-paced walker and I think the dog gets frustrated with my slowness. She looks much more excited when DH gets the lead out.

The general idea is to build it up slowly - so don't take a young puppy on a five mile trek when all they've done beforehand is half a mile wanders around town, for example.

The most important thing with puppies is not to play things like fetch so they don't put too much strain on the joints and muscles.

I asked a vet I know about this. What they said was that the strength of evidence was not great, and that the rule was possibly too restrictive for most dogs

But

• if you have a breed which is prone to orthopaedic problems in later life, be very careful
• avoid hills, steps and lots of jumping on and off things
• go at the dog's pace not yours (puppy happily snuffling round in a park, not briskly walking errands with you on pavements)

• and generally do not overstimulate very young puppies

No evidence at all just a very dodgy experiment years ago with GSD.

Puppies need exercise to grow and get strong.

Puppies do not need twisting chasing jumping exercise as that will damage and cause injuries.

We cause way more damage to our puppies having wooden floors that they slip and slide around on than overdoing gentle walking and running when puppies.

Excellent video by the brilliant Mike Farrell who talks about this alongside other issues I am pretty sure he mentions the original study and why it is flawed in the video.

There is also a recent academic study on this I will have a hunt for the link.

So if your puppy is able to freely run and freely rest and you are there to check the puppy is not getting over tired or over aroused then walking and running is good exercise.

Jumping chasing twisting and bundling with other dogs and puppies should be limited or prevented.

CAM video here

I think it also depends partly on the breed and partly what you mean by walking! I have a giant breed so we are REALLY careful. Other breeds I maybe wouldn’t be so strict with. Also a mooch and sniff is totally different to a route march round the pavements on a lead.
Brain games are also good for tiring the little blighters out. And puppies love a good chew too!!
I do think people need to make careful choices. The 4 month old lab I saw running round and round with the jogger will probably end up with the Supervet sooner rather than later.

I think this depends hugely on the breed. Big heavy dogs are prone to joint problems but most dogs get some arthritis in old age.
Smaller very active breeds like terriers and spaniels would surely go crazy if exercise was so restricted.
My small cross-breed has always had unlimited exercise running free and chasing balls. If he gets stiff in his old age that’s the price we pay for a lifetime of fun.

“No evidence at all just a very dodgy experiment years ago with GSD.“

I’ve just watched his interpretation and idea of where it came from...

That IMO is nothing to do with it.

My experience of it is that is been a rough rule of thumb among working gundog people for decades at least and it’s got nothing to do with limiting all exercise, or in fact just hips...

It’s supposed to be a rough rule of thumb to limit certain types of activity so that muscle can build gradually - everywhere and it’ll make no difference at all really to the joints of dogs with really bad joints, or really good joints... but, it’s common sense not to over exercise your puppy and as a rough guide it gives fairly sensible amounts of time and increases gradually.

But and again this is just IME, in about the last 10-15 years it seems to have become about preventing specific joint disorders and people seem to suddenly be counting all movement as exercise.

@tabulahrasa I would not question the opinion of an extremely highly qualified and respected ortho vet tbh. He knows his stuff and has evidence to back it.

Joint health is largely affected by weight - overweight dogs will have bad joints simple. Genetic joint health is improved by lower weight in dogs.

Correct exercise improves dog joints in all breeds, correct exercise being walking and gentle running.

“I would not question the opinion of an extremely highly qualified and respected ortho vet tbh. He knows his stuff and has evidence to back it.”

He literally says - I don’t know where it came from, but I think it might be this study.

That’s the bit I’m questioning as it would be a bit weird if a study in the seventies suddenly warped a guideline in the 2000’s that had been about way way longer than that.

Taken as I know it, limit the on lead at your pace stuff, the high paced stuff like fetch but things at their pace doesn’t need to be limited - it fits perfectly well with current ortho advice, and I’ve discussed it with an ortho specialist who agrees.

It’s the strict, all exercise needs a time that doesn’t.

Taken as I know it, limit the on lead at your pace stuff, the high paced stuff like fetch but things at their pace doesn’t need to be limited - it fits perfectly well with current ortho advice, and I’ve discussed it with an ortho specialist who agrees.

This is exactly what I am saying.

Not sure what your last sentence means but I think we agree

How long is this rule relevant for? Up until a year?

@Cripesalive

How long is this rule relevant for? Up until a year?

About a year - mostly because after that it’s just stupid lengths of time anyway, lol.

Most people wouldn’t be doing hour long on lead walks or games of fetch anyway - so at about a year, you just wait a bit longer with larger breeds to take them running with you or start agility, but you just pretty much walk them because the chances are if you’re on a long walk, most of it is off lead anyway.

It's important not to over exercise young pups as their bones are still growing. I've never over exercised mine and stayed to short walks until 18 months old.

There's no evidence to support it - look at the CAM video already linked.

How do working collie pups and other working dogs limit themselves to this level of exercise?
Mine managed just fine 🤷‍♀️

Plenty of wild dogs and wolves don't limit movement in this way. Surely their joints are not dissimilar to pet or working dogs
Google the average hip scores for purebred dogs.
It makes for unbelievably depressing reading...
The highest scores tend to be found in ‘heavy set’ breeds which supports PPs views that weight is a massive contributor to poor joints.

The only breeds that scored close to normal were greyhounds and Salukis from memory.

The vast majority of domestic dogs, if the average breed scores are to believed, do not have the perfectly fitting ‘normal’ hips that I imagine most wolves/wild dogs untouched by humans have.

I protect her joints but not going up/down stairs and lifting into the car. I have mostly stuck to this for formal walks but my dog has so much energy and is much happier after energetic exercise
Will that make it okay then if she’s in crippling pain as a senior..?

I would always stick to the rule, even if evidence is controversial.
So what if the puppy is a bit bored and has too much energy, better that than being in excruciating pain, unable to run and jump and walk long distances or get up or move around without pain as an adult/senior.

www.bva.co.uk/media/2796/chs-hip-breed-stats-2018.pdf
I remembered wrong.
The Irish terrier was the only one with a normal breed average score.

When my puppy is off lead she charges about at top speed! No mooching here 😬.
Good as gold in the house most of the time and much calmer in the garden than she was.
We also live on a hill which concerns me a bit but we do our best and don’t let her come downstairs of jump off sofa

I've got a little spaniel type dog (about seven months now) which zooms around at 100 miles an hour bouncing off sofas, beds, zooming up and down stairs. Often four-footed jumps. Even in the garden, she'll gallop round in circles in the garden, parkouring off small walls and raised flower beds and hopping on her back legs when she greets friendly people. She's quite slight and although greedy we'll keep her lean.

I've tried to stop her leaping around but it's nearly impossible. Even with tiring her out with games, sniffs and training she's a bundle of energy. Unless she's asleep or chilling out and then it's like she's been switched off.

I've now worried myself and although we do longer walks at her pace and lift her in and out of the car. Is it so bad? Do I need to limit her running and jumping?

I started out being really strict about exercise but left her to run around at her own pace as she was so energetic.She lives for chasing balls and leaves and her doggy friends. I just don't think I can slow her down until she grows up a bit. We train every day and she's obedient but it'll take time to to override her natural exuberance!

@BigWolfLittleWolf can you please explain what I should be looking for on that chart. It looks like our breed has a low number but I'm not sure which number is important.

I have been trying to read around this subject. Our 5 month old was getting very difficult until we increased her exercise. She now gets about an hour a day (1 20min + 1 40 min) walking, most of which is long line or off lead in the fields and tracks as well as more time in the garden . She is a different dog, much happier. The evidence I could find was based on 3 month old labradors climbing stairs or dogs playing lots of fetch. It is like a Chinese whisper that has become a fixed rule for all dogs never to be ignored.

You're looking for low numbers

But the do check the number of animals included (when the sample size is one, then you are getting that animal's score, not a representative breed sampling)

And if you look there are lots of breeds not on that list at all - lots of tall working dogs there, but lots of gaps on terriers. I'm assuming, as origin is table is BVA, these are the breeds which are more likely to be hip tested in the first place?

Also no Jack Russell at all, or the more popular crosses (large part of the British dog popuiation) presumable because of the KC input?

I see, so whilst my breed scores are relatively low, the number of dogs tested was also very low so not as significant as say labradors where 1000's were tested.

Also is there any figures for how many of dogs go on to suffer? What is the increased risk of a high number? Do all dogs with a score of 106 have hip pain?

Exercise is honestly NOT the devil with regards to joint health just the opposite.

Type of exercise is important. So as already said chasing ball, twisting, slipping on wooden floors, jumpong on furniture and running up and down stairs is to be avoided chasing and bundling dogs is to be avoided.

Walking and running when the dog is in control of speed and distance

The dogs weight has WAY more impact on joint health whether genetic joint weakness or not. So always make sure your dog is lean.

However for most puppies exercise is good and needed but not the way to tire them out so brain games are again much more important to relax, calm your puppy down. Chasing and playing with dogs will increase adrenalin and make them much more hyper.

Good enrichment games are your friends alongside sensible exercise

@Frenchfancy no not all dogs with a high hip score have hip pain. Horrendous x rays can show a lot of damage and the dog does not show signs of pain, no so bad looking x rays can cause a dog to limp. It is very hard to see how each dog will react with joint issues.

But as above keep your dog fit and lean that is the way to go!

Do all dogs with a score of 106 have hip pain?
I think this is hard to judge as a lot of dogs don’t show symptoms until pain is unbearable.

But what I do know is a score of 0.0 are correctly formed hips, hips where the ball fits into the socket perfectly.
A score of up to 3 is considered normal.
So the fact that virtually no breed has an average score of 3 or below, I find that depressing and alarming.
The BVA has only one breed, the Irish terrier, with a normal average breed hip score.
Though I do appreciate the results are possibly skewed because lots of people don’t hip screen.

I googled around a bit more last night and Statistics from America showed Whippets, Italian greyhounds, greyhounds and Salukis had the lowest scores.
I assume, because being working dogs for many generations and being bred to run they have a wider genetic diversity than show breeds sharing a couple of high winning sires and Ill fitting hips would not be compatible with coursing and racing.

I put the board up there because the OP used wolves and wild dogs as examples not to follow 5 minutes per month but domestic dogs are so far removed in terms of health, it isn’t really comparable imo.

I just don’t really understand why anyone would take the risk.
Hip/joint problems are so painful, no puppy ever died from short walks and if they are bored there is training, games, mental stimulation toys.
I just don’t understand.