My dog has just done the worst thing

[93sdb]

Hes just chased a sheep into a pond in the snow. Im heartbroken.

When he was younger he chased sheep before and he has ALWAYS been on a lead since then. Sheep or not.

We were walking down a field a walk through daily that has never had sheep in in the 20 years I've lived here. He was on his extendable lead and it was on loose but he was right next to me. I opened the gate to go through and felt him pull on the lead. Saw the sheep and put the clip on so he couldn't get any closer and the lead snapped. He chased the sheep and would not come back. One jumped into a pond and I finally got him back.

Another girl from the house nearby helped me get the sheep out but it went into shock but was still breathing. I put my coat around it and sat with her whilst she called the farmer and another lad came over and said the farmer was going to be furious as this had happened earlier this morning. I gave them my number said I would pay any vet bills etc and left it with my coat wrapped around it.

The farmer has just called and spoken to my dad as I was too upset. He's shouted at my dad (understandably) and is threatening to get the police involved and wants immediate compensation and threatened to come and shoot my dog. The sheep is alive and is warming back up in this man's house and is expected to make a full recovery and I am going to walk up there later (WITHOUT THE DOG) to check on it.

I just wanted somewhere to write and be devestated. Im upset how the farmer spoke to my dad as it was a complete and utter accident but I understand his frustration. I wouldn't of even walked in the field with my dog if I had any clue there was going to be sheep in there. He hasn't got excited around them since the first time but I would never risk it.

@Scrowy

I hate farmers. Always at the front of every queue with their hands held out

You hate all farmers? Well I sincerely hope you put your money where your mouth is and don't eat any food containing anything produced by a farmer.

Would that queue be the one where the government pays farmers the difference between what it actually costs to produce food and what the public will willingly pay for it? Hungry citizens don't make biddable voters.

The arrogance of people in the UK who don't realise how privileged they are to have easy access to cheap, high quality food, with no care for how fragile that continued access is never ceases to astound and frighten me.

Well said.

I agree with others about the retractable lead though. They aren't fit for purpose unless you're walking a miniature dog or maybe a cat. Every training group that I've been to has included retractable leads on the list of banned items. Definitely invest in a better lead.

Cassandra you'd be OK if we all brought our pets to your garden to shit and piss all over the place and harass and terrify your pets? I'm sure you'll not issue any threats as you see it's ok.
To me farm land belongs to someone, a public footpath maybe on it but the land surrounding it belongs to the farmer if he don't want dogs on his land then that's fine.

Dogs are never fully under control with retractable leads; whether yours snapped or not is irrelevant.

He should have been trained to return once called.

The whole flock may now miscarry as a result of the worrying.

The land belongs to the farmer and he can put his flock in whatever field he wants to put them. If it's convenient in this miserable weather to have them in that particular field when they are likely close to lambing then that is his prerogative.

Hopefully you have insurance.

As a shameless townie, I would like to know more about how you rescued the poor sheep from the pond. I’m not sure I would know where to begin with that. I’m equally fascinated by the thought of a sheep indoors, drying off 🤯

I’m not a fan of dog owners in general. They are an entitled lot (the sheer volume of dog shit around here is frankly all the evidence I need of that). But if the OP’s story is true, I mean what else was she meant to have done? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Honestly, I think given the unforeseen circumstances, you did everything possible absolutely perfectly. I would like to know if the farmer had signs up, or if he has since thought to put signs up at each end and along the path, because I think that the responsibility for the sheep goes two ways here - yes, there's public access, but HE owns the land and the sheep. If that's the second time in one day, AND there's a lake there, should he be leaving the sheep there where this can happen? I say this as the owner of a stupid, batshit dog that never gets walked off-lead because she can't be trusted at all. (Massive prey-drive, unfortunately.)

As child we would have lambs in the kitchen but the kitchen was huge and had a Rayburn which provided heat to keep them warm when we found them after ewes had perhaps rejected them after being born. It’s freezing today so maybe that was the lonely way of keeping the ewe alive.

A field with natural water is ideal for sheep as toughs with pipes get blocked and frozen.

Lamb in this country is one of the best meats you can have in environmental terms, natural grass, natural water.

The right of way may be true for humans but it is unacceptable to take a dog into a field with livestock. The dog was out of control.

Also, do you want the countryside to be littered with signs stating the obvious? People are so entitled. Dogs should was always be under control on private land.

It must have been shocking and upsetting for you, and I don't really have anything to add that hasn't been said. I live in the countryside in Wales, and I'd never walk my dog across farmland or open land where they have grazing rights, loads around here. It's too risky for both parties I think. Either the sheep, or cattle that could rush me if the dog caught their attention then I'd have to let the dog go etc. It's private land at the end of the day. The farmers here are very courteous to walkers in fairness, and always stop for a chat, but we repay the courtesy by reporting animals that have strayed, keeping to paths and closing gates, and noting any fences etc that have been damaged (miles of open mountain so they shouldn't necessarily cover every square inch every day). We also try plying them with hip flasks on Christmas walks, they're a very sober bunch but appreciate the laugh. It's a two way street, and taking dogs there shouldn't be a part of it I don't think.

I hope it all works out for the farmer, and not ideal to have shouted but between lockdown and brexit I suspect the thought of losing a years worth of lamb was the icing on the cake. Xx

@Fieldofyellowflowers

You were being responsible. You had the dog on a lead. The lead snapped. If you have never seen sheep in there before I would wonder if he actually had permission to have them there.

Unbelievable! Why would a farmer need permission to put sheep in his own field? This is the sort of attitude that really p.....off farmers.

Just the usual mumsnet bonkersness ‘farmer so entitled he actually had sheep on his field’. How dare he....and he didn’t sign post it.

AND there's a lake there, should he be leaving the sheep there where this can happen?

Fucksake, it's a pond, not a lake, lots of farms have them. Is the farmer really supposed to leave a field out of action on the offchance that some idiot dog will chase his livestock into the pond? Where are the limits - should the farmer not use a field with a few puddles for the same reason? How are we with the danger of trees that the sheep might bump into in a panic, bushes where they might run in and get stuck, or fences that a dog might drive sheep into?

But if the OP’s story is true, I mean what else was she meant to have done?

Keep her eyes open so that she can observe the presence of sheep before she opens the gate into their field? They're not exactly difficult to spot, after all.

@Yohoheaveho

If it were to happen repeatedly the punishments would probably get more severe each time several posters on the thread speak as if they have inside knowledge...perhaps someone can tell us what happens when a dog-owner is a repeat offender wrt worrying livestock?

In my district, the most likely course of action for repeat offenders would be a Community Protection Notice. We’ve had 2 ‘sheep worrying’ incidents in the last few years and both ended up with a warning.

It’s is very rare nowadays that the Police prosecute under the Livestock Act, and I personally have never seen it done unless the dog has killed multiple sheep.

[quote tenbananasaday]@Yohoheaveho
Why are you even here in the dog house?
You don't have a dog. You clearly dislike dogs as well as other animals. You are always on the AIBU dog threads expressing your contempt for dogs and cats. I spent the other day arguing with you on one of them because you couldn't see the value in rescuing a dog because it's a dog. I get you have your opinions but why come to a dog forum? It looks like you have a serious problem with dogs and get some kind of kick out of bashing them online. It's a-bit sad really. [/quote]
I was wondering the same thing. It seems very odd for someone who’s such a notorious dog hater to visit and post the area of the site that’s dedicated to them.

@Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel

Oh Op. I feel for you. And let's be honest, the farmer doesn't care about his sheep. He simply cares about money like they all do. The lead snapped. He can't threaten to shoot a dog that's not even present.

Many farmers do care a lot about their sheep and not all sheep are kept for meat, many are for breeding. Please don't generalise.

The OP did the best she could in the circumstances and I don't condone the farmer's threats but I can understand his anger.

We need the same rules as Ireland - no dogs on farmland. They are footpaths for people not dogs! A compromise would be all dogs on leads on farmland as otherwise most stray off the footpaths and upset the nesting birds and other wildlife even when there is no stock in the field and how many people pick up after their dogs when they are loose on a grass field?

@Impatiens

It may be a public footpath through a field, but dogs are ALWAYS MEANT TO BE ON A LEAD in areas like this.

Is this a law? Because I've never heard of it.

The dog must stay on the footpath - without a lead there are not many dogs that wallk perfectly to heal and know where the footpath is!

@Notgoingouttoday no, the dog musn't stay on the footpath, YOU have to, the dog does not.

The Dog doesn't even HAVE to be on a lead while being walked on a PRoW, unless the place is subject to a PSPO, in which case it would legally have to be signposted as such.

While its strongly advised that dogs be kept on a leash around livestock to protect all parties involved, and there are obviously legal consequences if a dog worries or attacks livestock or other people, as its illegal to do that, or to have your dog be a danger in a public place, its not a legal requirement to leash them without a PSPO in place.. you just have to hope dog walkers have some common sense.

www.gov.uk/control-dog-public

Many farmers do care a lot about their sheep and not all sheep are kept for meat, many are for breeding. Please don't generalise.

Breeding which is for......erm.....money. It still comes down to money !

FFS the amount of cherry-picking certain comments and clearly taking them out of the context of a post on this thread is ludicrous. Accusations of 'dogsplaining' (another fucking stupid made-up word), people trying to outdo each other about what they know about the Countryside Code, the vitriol. What a shambles.

I agree people are very selective with their reading. They seem to have decided in favour of the Op or the farmer before reading everything that Op has said and without recognising that it is possible for both to have been in the wrong.

Yes, the dog was in an inappropriate lead and given its form for livestock chasing, the Op was negligent in not being more careful with the dog. Yes, it was a serious thing that happened and the farmer had a right to be angry. He doesn’t have to signpost what he’s doing in his own field. AND AT THE SAME TIME it was an inappropriate and threatening response to suggest to Ops father that he would hunt Wien their house, come round and then shoot the dog. This is a terrifying and awful suggestion and cannot be justified based on the anger he might have felt.....responses must be proportionate and not threatening physical violence and bringing a shotgun to your house. How can anyone ignore this element of the story, which is such a vital part of the whole?

I doubt any authorities will be involved in this at all. But, if they were and the farmer made a complaint (legitimately) the nature of his response which including the threat of coming uninvited to Ops home with the purpose of bringing a gun to shoot a dog, would be viewed as the crime...a crime against people (the Op and her household) because it would be a threat to trespass with the purpose of violence.

It doesn’t matter that he was provoked and rightfully angry. You cannot threaten to do what he threatened even if you have no intention to do it. Op could be terrified in her home hiding from an angry farmer.

No-one comes out well in this story. Op did try to do what she could to make amends and even though it might not be good enough, when these things happen and whoever is to blame, all you can do, is then to do the right thing. She was negligent in her handling of the dog. She has owned that and apologised...there isn’t anything further she can do apart from ensuring she is never negligent again and taking incredibly seriously what has happened and her actions in future. With this dog, if she wants to keep him, she might have to significantly vary where he walks, even if it’s an inconvenience to herself.

I actually think the farmer needs to apologise for his words. Not for his anger which was righteous, but for going too far and being intimidating.

It would be nice to think they might speak again on a rational basis and Op could fully grasp the seriousness of what the dog did, and the farmer to acknowledge intimidation and threats to come to a property with violent intent is never acceptable.

Here’s the law in walking a dog on public footpath.... There’s no law which says that a dog must be kept on a lead when using a public right of way, but local authorities can make orders under section 27 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 to make it a requirement on specific paths. Like its owner, a dog should remain on the line of the path – an act of trespass may be committed against the landowner if it wanders away from the official route.

Walkers with dogs should take particular care when crossing fields where animals are being grazed. Section 1 of the Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953 makes it an offence for a dog to be at large, ‘that is to say not on a lead or otherwise under close control’, in a field or enclosure containing sheep.
Unfortunately this kind of incident happens all the time in the area where I live (national park). It’s exasperating, upsetting and costly for farmers. Many of my neighbours farm and they do care about their animals even if the end result is selling them for money. Either way, it immaterial. Dogs should be kept on a short lead under full control around sheep, it’s up to the owners to comply with this.

And yes, farmers can shoot dogs but they have to have firm conclusive evidence that the dog has caused the damage and obviously, in most cases, this does not happen. Normally around here sheep are worried or bitten or mauled apart and the farmer only discovers it later, after the fact.

I just had a quick look at ‘sheepwatch.co.uk’ (which is advice for farmers, not for dog owners) and I can’t find anything on there that suggests that a dog can be put to sleep after it’s worried sheep (or even attacked them) so I’m a bit suspicious of people suggesting that they’re aware of that routinely happening. It would be a very long and drawn out process and involve the police being involved as obviously most owners are not going to willingly take their dog to the vets to be PTS in those circumstances.

@Poorlykitten

And yes, farmers can shoot dogs but they have to have firm conclusive evidence that the dog has caused the damage and obviously, in most cases, this does not happen. Normally around here sheep are worried or bitten or mauled apart and the farmer only discovers it later, after the fact.

Sounds like the 'shoot on sight' thing is a bit 'urban myth' then🤷‍♀️