Considering getting a pug puppy - any advice?

[OldEvilOwl]

Hi we are looking at getting a puppy in the next few months. We had our 15year old JRT put to sleep before Xmas, and my first dog was also a JRT. As children we had border terriers & labradors. I would love a pug, but understand they can have health issues from the way they are bred. Does anyone have much experience of them?

There’s shed loads of small dogs that are far healthier :).

Yorkshire terriers are deeply unpopular at the minute so less likely to be byb or puppy farmed. Fab little dogs but currently the crossed version is popular so all you get are yorkipoo, yorkishon etc..

So much so the last couple of times I’ve had mine out and people have commented on him they’ve asked what breed he is, saying “i didn’t know they looked like that!”. Which seems mad to me as they’re a fairly identifiable dog!

As you can probably guess from my username we have a pug, he is 20 weeks old. He doesn't struggle with breathing at all, is hugely energetic (we have to limit walks due to his age otherwise he would just keep going) and he doesn't snore.

He is really clever, very easy to train and definitely doesn't look really squashed like some. From the research we have done a big part of the issues with their breathing can be due to how owners let them get so fat, the wrinkles get bigger and hinder their breathing.

We really wouldn't be without him, I would never tell anyone to get one as I wouldn't with any breed, all I can share is what a lovely experience we are having with him. You never know what health issues any dog could have down the line. We are very careful with how much he eats and so far he's a good weight and doesn't look like a lot of pugs you see. I will try and find a pic to share with you

From the research we have done a big part of the issues with their breathing can be due to how owners let them get so fat

Too late now, but you should have done more research if you think keeping a pug slim will solve years of inbred deformities.

I have done a lot of research but thanks for your helpful input though , I just mentioned that specific thing after seeing some of the pictures of fat pugs on this thread. None of the relatives of my puppy look like that at all. That is extremely cruel to allow pugs to get like that. It can be a big factor in their breathing issues, I didnt say it is the only factor.

I just typed a long post with info about the heritage of my pug but it disappeared when I posted it. None of them as far back as we know have ever had breathing problems, they are extremely energetic, the eldest is 14 and you really wouldn't believe it.

I seriously can't believe how rude that last poster was actually. You know nothing about me or my knowledge of pugs or any other dog breed. Just really unnecessary to be so rude.

I was posting about my experience with our pug and other pugs which is completely valid. I do actually know of one pug who has a few breathing issues, but their face is extremely flat and they are very overweight. Their nose is very much under a wrinkle. It is very sad to see.

@PugInTheHouse

As you can probably guess from my username we have a pug, he is 20 weeks old. He doesn't struggle with breathing at all, is hugely energetic (we have to limit walks due to his age otherwise he would just keep going) and he doesn't snore.

He is really clever, very easy to train and definitely doesn't look really squashed like some. From the research we have done a big part of the issues with their breathing can be due to how owners let them get so fat, the wrinkles get bigger and hinder their breathing.

We really wouldn't be without him, I would never tell anyone to get one as I wouldn't with any breed, all I can share is what a lovely experience we are having with him. You never know what health issues any dog could have down the line. We are very careful with how much he eats and so far he's a good weight and doesn't look like a lot of pugs you see. I will try and find a pic to share with you

Well I wouldn't be setting any store by your research skills!

Pug's health problems are exacerbated by obesity - which they are predisposed to because they are physically unable to exercise without experiencing air-hunger. So to maintain a lean body weight, your choice is to force-exercise a suffocating dog to the point of collapse, or to restrict its diet to the extent its chronically hungry. Brilliant quality of life

Obesity has no impact on the numerous neurological, ocular or dental pathologies that pugs suffer from.

The vast majority of pug owners write off their dog's noisy breathing as normal meaning the poor dog is subject to a life of suffering. Ever had sleep apnoea? A panic attack where you can't catch your breath? That air-hunger is evolutionarily hardwired to be a deeply unpleasant experience. Pugs live with it. Every time your pug 'snores' he is demonstrating that his airway is obstructed

In veterinary practice pugs and french bulldogs will tolerate having a breathing tube down their windpipe whilst conscious because that it's less aversive than their 'natural' state of breathing.

Brachycephalic dogs are bred to suffer because people want them to look cute. If you prize looks over health and welfare, you'll argue that your dog is different. It isn't, you're part of the problem

Read these:

www.bva.co.uk/media/1183/bva-position-on-brachycephalic-dogs-full.pdf

vetsagainstbrachycephalism.com

I have read it all thanks and have researched. I literally made one comment about one issue that makes it worse so I'm not sure why you have jumped on that. I did not say that was my only finding or the only issue. No way should a pug look like some of those pictures people have posted, that is abusive.

At the end of the day, we have our dog, hes here and healthy so far. Doesn't heavy breath and doesn't snore. There's nothing more for me to say on here.

How about you post about your knowledge and experiences and others can do the same. No need to be personal whatsoever. I am sure people are able to read everyone's posts and take it all in without you resorting to being personal to other posters.

@PugInTheHouse

I have done a lot of research but thanks for your helpful input though , I just mentioned that specific thing after seeing some of the pictures of fat pugs on this thread. None of the relatives of my puppy look like that at all. That is extremely cruel to allow pugs to get like that. It can be a big factor in their breathing issues, I didnt say it is the only factor.

I just typed a long post with info about the heritage of my pug but it disappeared when I posted it. None of them as far back as we know have ever had breathing problems, they are extremely energetic, the eldest is 14 and you really wouldn't believe it.

Well if it's just your opinion based on owning pugs you haven't 'done a lot of research' have you

So it's reasonable for that to be pointed out to you. If your opinion is that your own pug is entirely healthy and that all pug health problems are due to the owners letting them get fat, say that.

You'd still be wrong, but at least it would be your accurate opinion not faux-research.

@PugInTheHouse

I have read it all thanks and have researched. I literally made one comment about one issue that makes it worse so I'm not sure why you have jumped on that. I did not say that was my only finding or the only issue. No way should a pug look like some of those pictures people have posted, that is abusive.

At the end of the day, we have our dog, hes here and healthy so far. Doesn't heavy breath and doesn't snore. There's nothing more for me to say on here.

How about you post about your knowledge and experiences and others can do the same. No need to be personal whatsoever. I am sure people are able to read everyone's posts and take it all in without you resorting to being personal to other posters.

Your dog is 4 months old. I wouldn't be quite so confident of his future health and welfare.

Yep you have your dog. You chose to spend a lot of money to support the breeding of suffering dogs. Your opinion I'm sure will be to disagree. But the scientific evidence is clear.

The genetic mutation that causes screw tail brachycephalic in dogs causes Robinow syndrome in humans.

www.ucdavis.edu/news/bulldogs’-screw-tails-linked-human-genetic-disease/

Pugs and other brachycephalics share similar experiences to children with obstructive sleep apnoea

www.rsm.ac.uk/events/comparative-medicine/2020-21/cmp51/

Breeder are CHOOSING for dogs to have these mutations, and to breed for confirmations that we know causes suffering, and those choices are supported purely by the people buying the puppies

Just popping a post on to say not all pugs suffer as stated. All dog breeds have issues based on their breeds sadly. Our pug is 10 years and still walks 5+ miles per day and hikes on weekends, doesn't snore/struggle to breath etc and the vets at his boosters always comment on what a fine specimen he is.. loves to swim in the sea and lakes and we're in an agility group... I know of numerous pugs who lived to/passed 18. My brothers labs all die before they're 8 to cancer... and he still loves to tell me what a healthy breed he's chosen 🤷🏼‍♀️

I didnt actually say that though. I said it was one issue that makes it worse. Not once did I suggest that it was the only problem. I also didn't say my only research is owning pugs, my posts most definitely don't say that.

@PugInTheHouse

I didnt actually say that though. I said it was one issue that makes it worse. Not once did I suggest that it was the only problem. I also didn't say my only research is owning pugs, my posts most definitely don't say that.

Then what research did you do that showed a big part of their health problems are due to obesity?

Thats lovely to hear emotionalpuddle. That is certainly the experience of my friends numerous pugs but sadly there are people on here who are absolutely certain it is not possible for them to be happy and healthy.

Veterinari - Of course I cant know my pups health going forward, no one can whatever the breed anyway. I dont agree with everything you have said but am well aware of the potential issues.

@emotionalpuddle

Just popping a post on to say not all pugs suffer as stated. All dog breeds have issues based on their breeds sadly. Our pug is 10 years and still walks 5+ miles per day and hikes on weekends, doesn't snore/struggle to breath etc and the vets at his boosters always comment on what a fine specimen he is.. loves to swim in the sea and lakes and we're in an agility group... I know of numerous pugs who lived to/passed 18. My brothers labs all die before they're 8 to cancer... and he still loves to tell me what a healthy breed he's chosen 🤷🏼‍♀️

Yep I had a granny who smoked 20 fags a day and lived to 98. So if she survived there's no reason not to smoke.

Same logic as buying pug puppies I guess.

@Veterinari and my aunt lived a healthy lifestyle didn't drink, smoke or do drugs.. still died of a heart attack at 30.. incidentally my grandma lived to 83 and smoked 20 a day and cooked everything in lard ☺️

@PugInTheHouse

Thats lovely to hear emotionalpuddle. That is certainly the experience of my friends numerous pugs but sadly there are people on here who are absolutely certain it is not possible for them to be happy and healthy.

Veterinari - Of course I cant know my pups health going forward, no one can whatever the breed anyway. I dont agree with everything you have said but am well aware of the potential issues.

That's even more depressing. You're aware of the potential issues and yet chose to buy a dog that has a significant likelihood of chronic severe health and welfare problems that cause a lifetime of suffering.

I simply don't understand why you'd do that?

Also weird that so many people seem to be confusing longevity with a good quality of life. The Labrador that dies of cancer at 9 will for the most part have a pain free active life. The pug that lives to 18 experiencing chronic air hunger, eye irritation, dental pain etc. will have suffered. Longevity is not a welfare indicator

[quote emotionalpuddle]@Veterinari and my aunt lived a healthy lifestyle didn't drink, smoke or do drugs.. still died of a heart attack at 30.. incidentally my grandma lived to 83 and smoked 20 a day and cooked everything in lard ☺️ [/quote]
Which just proves my point.

Random anecdotes aren't evidence are they?
Longevity isn't an indicator of a good quality of life.

And unless you're a science-denier, brachycephalics, as a population experience chronic lifelong suffering. Which is supported by the people who pay for them to be bred to look cute.

Ok Veterinari, you can keep trying to twist what I'm saying. I'm not going to waste any more of my time discussing. You believe you know everything about every pug there is and thats fine. I'll let you get on with it.

@PugInTheHouse

Ok Veterinari, you can keep trying to twist what I'm saying. I'm not going to waste any more of my time discussing. You believe you know everything about every pug there is and thats fine. I'll let you get on with it.

Because asking you to share your research and pointing out actual scientific evidence is 'twisting your words'?

I'd love to see your research for healthy, functioning brachycephalics - that's the whole point - I'd LOVE these dogs to have a lovely life. But they can't, because they're great little characters trapped in deformed bodies that people are paying to inflict on them.

@Veterinari your random anecdote seemed to be used as 'evidence' you can't tar all breeds with the same brush. Pugs don't appear in the top 10 of most unhealthy dog breeds and my personal experience has (to me) proven they're a healthy and competitive breed (baring obvious exceptions as all breeds have) ☺️ I'm not going to argue and I appreciate your beliefs but I'm happy with my dog as is his vet. Let's part ways amicably shall we 💖🐶
To the OP cairn terriers are a hardy breed similar to JRT so I'm told ☺️

@PugInTheHouse

I have done a lot of research but thanks for your helpful input though , I just mentioned that specific thing after seeing some of the pictures of fat pugs on this thread. None of the relatives of my puppy look like that at all. That is extremely cruel to allow pugs to get like that. It can be a big factor in their breathing issues, I didnt say it is the only factor.

I just typed a long post with info about the heritage of my pug but it disappeared when I posted it. None of them as far back as we know have ever had breathing problems, they are extremely energetic, the eldest is 14 and you really wouldn't believe it.

Or do they get like that as they can't exercise enough to keep a decent weight ?

You’re wasting your breath @Veterinari. As shown on this thread, people who buy pug puppies are too selfish and/or stupid to care about puppies health. Same as french bulldogs. If they stopped to think for two minutes about why these dogs are so expensive to insure, they might realise they’re buying a deformed animal who at best will be subject to health problems and painful medical treatments.

@PugInTheHouse

Ok Veterinari, you can keep trying to twist what I'm saying. I'm not going to waste any more of my time discussing. You believe you know everything about every pug there is and thats fine. I'll let you get on with it.

Well she's a vet so she probably does know a fair bit.

[quote emotionalpuddle]@Veterinari your random anecdote seemed to be used as 'evidence' you can't tar all breeds with the same brush. Pugs don't appear in the top 10 of most unhealthy dog breeds and my personal experience has (to me) proven they're a healthy and competitive breed (baring obvious exceptions as all breeds have) ☺️ I'm not going to argue and I appreciate your beliefs but I'm happy with my dog as is his vet. Let's part ways amicably shall we 💖🐶
To the OP cairn terriers are a hardy breed similar to JRT so I'm told ☺️[/quote]
Right so you haven't looked at any of the 4 research links I've provided then? Two of which list significantly research to support my viewpoint. I guess it's easier just to ignore that...

Who's put together your top ten list out of interest? I'd love to see the scientific foundation for that?

You're also mistaking 'my beliefs' for 'overwhelming scientific evidence'

I totally understand that ignoring the science I've provided and dismissing the evidence as beliefs and opinions makes it much easier for you to rationalise 'let's agree to disagree'. But realistically that only works if you ignore reality.

@emotionalpuddle. Have you not read the many many links that vetinari has posted on this thread or are you going to continue with the health pug fallacy? Have you not thought that the reason that your vet always comments on your pug is because most of the others that he/she sees are desperately unhealthy with dreadful incurable problems?