Advice about buying a puppy

[celestebellman]

Hi, have been thinking of getting a puppy for a while, and started to look at breeders/ adverts and it seems a minefield - already got excited about a glossy website which appeared on further googling to be a posh puppy farm and now I feel I can’t trust any adverts I see and worry about potentially being taken in by some kind of front to a similar operation.
We are looking at cavapoos (yes I know not everyone’s cup of tea and some people on this site appear strongly opposed!) partly as a relative has one we have looked after a bit, I am not allergic to it (important as I have allergies to some dog breeds) and it is the right kind of size.

I just wondered about advice to wean out potential dodgy sellers - I know we should see the puppies at home, with the mother, they should all have some kind of health check certificate (but could these be forged??) and also if possible ask to see the parents’ health details too. I’m not sure if there is anything else?

Also, would it be necessary to take time off at beginning and how long? ( I work 3 days though at moment some can be from home - partner working from home at moment but is frequently on very long work calls/ meetings, 12 year old dd at home at moment but potentially could be back at school). Longer term would look at dog daycare / walker for periods when no one home.

Any advice appreciated, not had a dog since being a child when we got a border terrier when I was aged nine but don’t remember much about that and sure none of these issues were considered then!

This from the Dogs Trust might be helpful - www.dogstrust.org.uk/help-advice/getting-or-buying-a-dog/getting-a-puppy-advice

Having a puppy and working from home isn’t a breeze - DDog (now 4) seemed to be on a constant suicide drive in her first couple of weeks, chewing through my office phone line, jumping off stuff etc. A crate does help but they shouldn’t be in one for prolonged periods on their own. Personally, I’d take at least a week off.

It’s not a health check you want, that’s just a really basic check up, it’s health tests for specific issues

For the cavalier parent - they want to be screened for heart issues, especially MVD... and their parents and grandparents want to be clear too

Eye screened

DNA tested for episodic falling, dry eye and curly coat

Screened for 2 different skull malformations

For the poodle
Eye screened and DNA tested for PRA

Assuming mini or toy as standard would be a weird mix, but also hip scored if standard

They should all have official documentation so fairly hard to forge and if they’re KC registered you can check the results online.

There are other breeds which are considered hypo allergenic to some extent if you Google.

There is a thread on Doghouse about getting a puppy from a reliable source recently with advice of the sort you are after.

You’d be much easier finding a good poodle breeder, than a poodle cross breeder btw... and if you’re not allergic to a cross, you’re not hugely likely to be allergic to a poodle.

Fwiw...my puppy required full-time supervision for at least first 8 weeks from when I got him at 12 weeks (mini poodle mix)...although he did reliably sleep through quite early on and would go 2 hour naps in crate if I had wanted to go out...it is the toilet training that requires supervision. And avoiding separation anxiety

Hi, thanks for the advice will try to find the other thread. That is really helpful about the specific health conditions, thanks @tabulahrasa - also to know about checking parents’ details if kennel club registered.
I know there are a few other hypoallergenic breeds - I’d quite like a border terrier again as that fits the bill but kids (dd especially) is very into the cavapoo idea.... Not keen on poodles, for some reason, not sure why just find them a bit odd looking (no offence intended to poodle owners).

@Nettleskeins 8 weeks?? This is what I am a bit worried about as we will not be able to have 8 weeks off work to provide full time supervision 😂 I think this is one of my biggest concerns, yet other people who have jobs seem to manage to get dogs so I guess it must be possible...!

“Not keen on poodles, for some reason, not sure why just find them a bit odd looking (no offence intended to poodle owners).”

Um, not being funny... but I wouldn’t get a poodle cross if you don’t like poodles, they’re half poodle and breed traits don’t work in a 50/50 split in crosses.

Also - cavapoos quite often look very like poodles...

Poodles look very different depending on their hairstyle - if you got one cut in the same style as cavapoos tend to get, they would look pretty similar.

My poodle thing is irrational, sorry - when I was a kid my mum had a big thing about not being keen on poodles (also greyhounds) for some reason and I think I have just internalised this. I know what cavapoos look like and that they can look poodle-esque and that’s fine, just can see us with an actual poodle.
It’s not really anything to do with traits (don’t even know what traits poodles have) - like I say, irrational but guess everyone has their dog preferences.

A lot of people assume a poodle will have the “show” look with a shaved nose and Pom Pom on the head.

They really don’t unless they are groomed to look that way.

Puppies need loads of time devoting to them.

You’ll be lucky to find a reputable breeder without knowing someone.

Poodles

Still poodles

Yes, I probably do have that image in my head of a poodle which is not necessarily accurate - sorry, really don’t want to offend anyone, guess it just isn’t on my (quite short!) list of preferred breeds.

That’s interesting that it would be hard to find reputable breeder without knowing someone - looked on pets4home and there are lots of adverts which sound reasonably genuine but it’s so hard to know!

“sorry, really don’t want to offend anyone, guess it just isn’t on my (quite short!) list of preferred beeeds”

I don’t have poodles btw, I’m not up for owning dogs that need to go to a hairdresser more than I do, lol... it’s totally not that I care what you prefer.

It’s just, well, it honestly makes no sense at all to get a dog that’s half a breed you don’t want...

Especially with poodles when finding a decent breeder of crosses is about as common as hens teeth and finding a decent poodle breeder would be easier (still a minefield to be fair, but better odds)

As a general rule of thumb btw, advertising sites don’t usually have decent breeders on them.

Most of the common poodle crosses have clubs or associations where breeders sign up for a code of conduct, you could try looking for a cavapoo one...

The thing with poodle crosses on here is generally a) because they are usually farmed- no restrictions on breeding like there is with pedigree, cross breeds means lots of puppies and different dogs. So nearly always from a profit motivated breeder rather than a dogs health one. Plus pedigrees are health tested- not a trip to the vets for a once over, proper genetic and physical tests for anything that can be passed on.

Second is what people say they’re looking for isn’t exclusive to crosses. Personally i really don’t understand why people choose them for allergies- inheritance means there’s only a 1:4 chance your pup will have the poodle coat, so a 3:4 chance it will have some sort of mix. Crossing increases the chance of you reacting, so why not get a poodle where the coat is about as guaranteed as they come.

Thirdly the coat mix of the curly poodle and straight cav can be a nightmare. They need grooming every day- proper to the skin combing, and groomer visits very regularly as they mat and felt, and you can be left with a fleece that needs shearing like a sheep- my groomer had to do this to several dogs after last lockdown.

As pp pictures show, people have preconceived ideas about poodles, when most can’t tell the difference between a pure poodle and a cross.

There are plenty of hypoallergenic dogs out there. If you do react a pedigree is a much better choice than crossing it with something that’s more likely to make you react!

Poodles, yorkies don’t shed either and have “hair” rather than fur so don’t trigger allergies, and while they need a trim their coats are much easier.

Ok, thanks, yes I can see I am being a bit illogical. Everyone has been really taken with the cavapoo belonging to close relatives so I think this is the primary influencing factor.

A few advertised were ones which said they had been bred from a family pet, lived in the family home, claimed to have all relevant health checks etc. I know some people who are not serious breeders will let their dogs have one or two litters which I guess is not puppy farming and seems ok if done properly... unless the adverts are designed to appear this way! Thanks for the advice to look for associations though, that’s helpful.

If you find someone with a cavalier who has done all the necessary testing (cavaliers sadly have some horrendous genetic problems due to terrible breeding) and has a fit and healthy dog who is then willing to cross it with ANYTHING, I'll eat my hat.

“unless the adverts are designed to appear this way!”

Sometimes they are, yes... puppy farmers will put litters in a house with a family to be picked up and all sorts of stuff like that.

“If you find someone with a cavalier who has done all the necessary testing (cavaliers sadly have some horrendous genetic problems due to terrible breeding) and has a fit and healthy dog who is then willing to cross it with ANYTHING, I'll eat my hat”

Yep... it’s not hugely likely, that’s why adverts will just say health checks and not name the full load of tests that should have been done.

I know some people who are not serious breeders will let their dogs have one or two litters which I guess is not puppy farming and seems ok if done properly...

No this is backyard breeding and often just as bad. It’s unusual to find someone who “lets their dog have one or two litters” that has properly health tested the parents, and has got proper vet care.

Health testing, decent, proper pre and post natal care is expensive. Done properly, there is very little profit in puppies (maybe current time excepted!) so reputable breeders tend to be those who have a genuine interest and reason to breed beyond money or cute puppies.

My breeder for example, is fairly big in the show world. They breed when they need to for showing, usually keep one, the rest will go to other show-ers to improve their dogs. If you’re lucky there will be a pet available. Mine didn’t meet show standard, but was older by the time they realised he was going to be too small, so I happily took a 6 month old rather than younger.

People who get dogs and work out of the home generally don't leave a young dog longer than two or three hours max for first year. It is cruel to expect a puppy/ young dog to manage from even 10am to 2pm by itself. It isn't even the toileting, it is the lack of human companionship. When they are a year old perhaps you can build up the leaving time...a good walk before and after, but how is that going to fit into the rest of your day...could your DD walk the dog by herself for example. Dog walkers are good but then not so good for a young puppy (which cannot walk far)teenage dog who need individual attention and training. And it is expensive for three days a week ..you have to factor that in. Dogs do fit in easily after that initial six months /year, but you do have to allow for considerable change in family life

Anything with a poo can end up more poodle than the other breed. It's pot luck.My pomapoo is definitely more poodle. Looks nothing like a pomeranian and is mad as a box of frogs, needs lots of exercise and does not tolerate children trying to pick her up/ grab her. Common poodle traits. Looks really cute but she's a bloody monster!! Joking aside, poodles are pretty highly strung,very clever dogs and whilst the mixes are all the rage for family dogs, I wouldn't necessarily advise it. Have friends with poodle mixes who would agree.
Also, we got ours from Pets4homes from a 'licensed' breeder, but actually it transpired they were pretty much a puppy farm, breeding lots of types of dog and only interested in getting extortionate amounts of cash. Still see them advertising using the same stages shots and 'set'.

Sorry just leaving this here ....

if you work then the dog will need day care, so around 20-30 pounds a day cost to price in. thats how people manage .. we did take 2 weeks off work when we first got ours too.

Husband had two weeks off for ours and cracked toilet training - is that possible? We both work from home so leaving him wasn't an issue and we don't use a crate so can't help on that point. Puppies do sleep a lot so the initial bit is hardcore toilet training then hours of snoozing.

After he had been home for a few weeks he settled into a routine of sleeping all morning and waking up around 12.30 for his lunch and then sleeping pretty much until after 5.30. So working from home was possible but my diary is flexible and I was able to reschedule work calls etc if he wasn't snoozing and it would have been difficult to keep him settled while I spoke. I think here people who do crate training would have different ideas and suggestions.

Family member has cavapoos and they are gorgeous and lovely - difficult to be sure about the breeders and it's a minefield. I think now it might be more difficult to sort the genuine ones from the puppy farmers because there is so much demand. If you can wait until things have returned to normal a bit I would as the risk might be lower. That will be tricky though if you can more easily be at home during covid restrictions to do the time intensive training part. We were considering getting a sibling for our boy because of this aspect but overall decided we didn't want to risk it in the current climate.

I think you are thinking of all the right questions and appreciate the responsibility involved etc and there is good advice here re hypoallergenic etc. Take your time and I am sure that eventually you will have the puppy you all want and a good set up to give it an amazing home