Advice about buying a puppy

[celestebellman]

Hi, have been thinking of getting a puppy for a while, and started to look at breeders/ adverts and it seems a minefield - already got excited about a glossy website which appeared on further googling to be a posh puppy farm and now I feel I can’t trust any adverts I see and worry about potentially being taken in by some kind of front to a similar operation.
We are looking at cavapoos (yes I know not everyone’s cup of tea and some people on this site appear strongly opposed!) partly as a relative has one we have looked after a bit, I am not allergic to it (important as I have allergies to some dog breeds) and it is the right kind of size.

I just wondered about advice to wean out potential dodgy sellers - I know we should see the puppies at home, with the mother, they should all have some kind of health check certificate (but could these be forged??) and also if possible ask to see the parents’ health details too. I’m not sure if there is anything else?

Also, would it be necessary to take time off at beginning and how long? ( I work 3 days though at moment some can be from home - partner working from home at moment but is frequently on very long work calls/ meetings, 12 year old dd at home at moment but potentially could be back at school). Longer term would look at dog daycare / walker for periods when no one home.

Any advice appreciated, not had a dog since being a child when we got a border terrier when I was aged nine but don’t remember much about that and sure none of these issues were considered then!

If you don't like poodles, why on earth would you go for a mix that's 50% poodle? That makes no sense to me whatsoever and I see it a lot on here too. I don't really like greyhounds so I wouldn't go out and get a lurcher either.

All that aside, you're going to struggle to find a reputable breeder of cavapoos. Cavaliers have some appalling health problems and I doubt any decent breeder would out-cross theirs with a poodle. Poodles themselves are hardy dogs but they can be highly strung and need a lot of exercise. They're also fairly clingy so not ideal if you want to leave them alone for long periods.

Like PP said - daycare is an option but it's expensive and not always a good idea depending on the dog. Walkers are good but your dog won't be able to do long walks for a good year or so, which is worth bearing in mind. 2-3 shorter visits with a walker will cost more than daycare.

Spot the difference - poodle or cavapoo...

This is why I don’t get the crossing, they look exactly the same!!

Thanks all, I stand corrected on my impression of what a poodle looks like - although the description of them as highly strung doesn’t really win me over either. Also appreciate the huge variation in potential traits of cavapoos both physical and personality wise - so probably should not be basing everything about this decision on knowing one appealing example.

Wondering now whether to revert to what has been my lifetime plan of getting a border terrier when finally in a position to get a dog. But also seriously considering the puppy issue and how we would manage.

Practically everyone our kids know at school seems to be getting/ have got dogs recently and their parents don’t all work from home so guessing it must be manageable somehow. I am now wondering how everyone has managed to find good breeders given all the apparent pitfalls - unless they are all just sitting on ticking genetic time bombs!

There is a lot of negativity on this forum about getting puppies especially poodle crosses so I’m not surprised by some of your responses. I have a cockerpoo and he is the most lovely, fun loving affectionate dog. Lots of people I know locally have cockapoo/cavapoos and it is because they make great family pets. You don’t have to brush them every day unless the coat is long. My dog is kept quite short and goes to the groomers every 8 weeks which costs £35 and I don’t brush him often in between. Don’t be put off getting one.

“Practically everyone our kids know at school seems to be getting/ have got dogs recently and their parents don’t all work from home so guessing it must be manageable somehow. I am now wondering how everyone has managed to find good breeders given all the apparent pitfalls - unless they are all just sitting on ticking genetic time bombs!“

To be dead honest - a lot of people are really selfish about getting a dog, they don’t put a lot of thought into where they come from and if they don’t actually howl the house down just assume they’re fine being left all day.

Some breeds are worse health wise than others, but, generally you’ll find that even getting them from the most dubious sources they luck out and have a fairly healthy dog... but the reason you don’t want to leave it up to luck is that they’re not minor issues, they’re horrible painful life altering health issues, so if you’re the one that’s unlucky - it’s devastating, for the dog and for you and your family.

There is a lot of negativity on this forum about getting puppies especially poodle crosses so I’m not surprised by some of your responses

The negativity is not because we don’t like crosses, or don’t think they make “lovely family pets”. It because their popularity makes them an ideal target for naive first timers who don’t know about puppy farms, or breeding for profit, or basic genetics that means you’re 75% more likely to be allergic to a cross than the parent poodle.

Even the originator of the idea regrets it and thinks he created a monster, and that poodle crosses aren’t the best for dog welfare.

A good breeder is very hard to find to start with. Taking the checks and balances out that have evolved to ensure the health of pedigrees is lessening the welfare requirements, there are no KC papers, or limiting litters and health checking for KC registration.

@Toomuchleopard

There is a lot of negativity on this forum about getting puppies especially poodle crosses so I’m not surprised by some of your responses. I have a cockerpoo and he is the most lovely, fun loving affectionate dog. Lots of people I know locally have cockapoo/cavapoos and it is because they make great family pets. You don’t have to brush them every day unless the coat is long. My dog is kept quite short and goes to the groomers every 8 weeks which costs £35 and I don’t brush him often in between. Don’t be put off getting one.

I've met some absolutely lovely cross breeds and I'm sure some do make excellent family pets. That's not the problem and never has been the problem, really. You don't need a "pure bred" dog to have a good, well-rounded pet by any stretch of the imagination.

My issue is with how they're bred. They very, very very rarely come from decent breeders who do all the appropriate health testing for each breed. So you have no idea what health conditions your dog could be inheriting - that can prove to be costly and, sadly in some cases, fatal.

The advertising around them is also pretty dodgy - many are sold as "hypoallergenic" - but how is that even possible when they're crossed with dogs like labradors, cavaliers and cockers?

I also don't know what people want from a poodle cross, really. I see people saying they dislike poodles, but then they want a poodle mix as a pet - why?

I mean, if you really dislike poodles as a breed (which is totally fine) why would you want a dog that's 50% poodle? The poodle traits don't vanish because it's bred with another breed - so the logic there doesn't make any sense to me.

And if you do love poodles as a breed, why wouldn't you just get a poodle? Why the need to cross it with something else?

Poodles are quite full on intelligence and beadiness, they hate being ignored, they aren't in the slightest bit soppy and adoring.
Other breeds like labradors and cockers are just as "energetic" or even more so, but they could be profiled as more docile when their exercise needs are met. Whereas a poodle is always ready to help out...they make good assistance dogs in a way that cocker spaniels for example, don't.
I suppose I can see why you would want to dilute some of that poodly "determination" with a bit of goofy spaniel...which is why people like the mix. A cavalier is much less energetic than a poodle surely?

I suppose I can see why you would want to dilute some of that poodly "determination" with a bit of goofy spaniel...which is why people like the mix. A cavalier is much less energetic than a poodle surely

But crossing two breeds doesn't guarantee the offspring will be any less energetic - that's the point. You could end up with a cavapoo that's just as energetic and intense as it's poodle parent.

So if a poodle is too full-on for you, but you like cavaliers, why not just get a cavalier, or another small breed? Then you pretty much know what you're going to get in terms of personality, size and energy levels.

I just don't understand why, if a certain breed isn't what you want, you'd decide to go for an offspring of that breed. It's just totally illogical to me

“I suppose I can see why you would want to dilute some of that poodly "determination" with a bit of goofy spaniel...which is why people like the mix”

That’s not how it works though, you can’t predict what will come out, could be a nice combination of the best of both breeds, could be the worst of both combined and some not so great traits doubled up on so even worse, they could come out in either looks or personality very much like just one parent breed... and you can get all that in one litter as well.

Thanks all - some really useful advice on the pitfalls of buying these particular dogs, and yes I was very nearly that naive first time buyer and only through a bit of lucky googling realised the glossy website offering me an immediate cavapoo was probably an upmarket puppy farm. Going to reflect a bit more on which breed is right for us - definitely useful to take into consideration the wide range of traits dogs can end up with from the different parent breeds.
Going to throw a border terrier (which was always my dog of choice before falling victim to the cavapoo craze) back into the mix but still thinking about it - good to hear some positive cavapoo stories as well, particularly reassurance about amount of grooming required.

Going to throw a border terrier (which was always my dog of choice before falling victim to the cavapoo craze) back into the mix but still thinking about it - good to hear some positive cavapoo stories as well, particularly reassurance about amount of grooming required

Again, with crosses the amount of grooming one needs may not be the same as another, even from the same litter. Some will be on the easier poodle/cocker side, others will be some hellish mix of the two.

I know I’m being negative about crosses, but this is why. Just because one cockerpoo has certain traits, others may have completely different ones. You may get the best of both breeds, or the worst.

If you have allergies you’re much better off with a border or other known breed where it’s a known quantity, and is much less likely to vary from dog to dog. Plus if you are allergic, a reputable breeder will take it back, otherwise you’re selling it on gumtree or relinquishing to rescue..

good to hear some positive cavapoo stories as well, particularly reassurance about amount of grooming required

But you'll have NO idea how much grooming your puppy will require until they're fully grown and their adult coat has come through. I know some poo crosses who need daily brushing at home, and trips to the groomers every 4-6 weeks. Unless you know how to care for a poodle-type coat at home, that money soon adds up. Most groomers charge £30-35 a time.

The other thing to consider with those coat types is mud and snow - you really need to keep your dog clean and brushed daily or you'll end up with matts which can be incredibly painful for them.

If you don't want to do much grooming, a poodle or poodle cross is not for you. They have high-maintenance coats and the mixed-breed offspring can sometimes have even worse coats to contend with.

Border terriers are great little dogs, or what about something like a cairn? They're small, hardy and generally fantastic little things. They do require grooming but nowhere near as often as a poodle and they don't suffer from matting either.

“The other thing to consider with those coat types is mud and snow”

I went for a walk - a while ago now, it was still legal, rofl, with 2 cockers, 2 cockapoos and I was fostering a small collie type dog.

We went on the same walk, all 5 dogs were running about the woods together

The cockers and my foster were a bit muddy, need a towel in the boot and maybe a bit of a hose down type muddy.

The cockapoos looked like someone had tried to use them to mop up the entire wood!!! Rofl

Thanks - grooming wasn’t even something I’d considered before tbh. Yes idea of cairn terrier helpful too, thanks. Starting to think may be better going for a known breed.

Sorry I know this has moved on but I didn't want to let the 'poodle bashing' go.

I have a mini poodle. He is not in any way highly strung or full on. He likes our company and will happily be with us all day doing whatever we are doing. He's not crazy high energy. (He's not always that clever either).

They have a bad reputation because in the past they were bred to be a fashion accessory. And often the mixes crazy streak is blamed on the 'poodle side' when actually that's impossible to know. But also any poodle and 'other' are mixed just because of their breed, rather than carefully chosen by a good breeder for health and a good temperament.

I know the OP isn't getting a poodle. But in case others have looked up this thread thinking of getting a poodle mix but ruling out actual poodles because of this idea that they are highly strung, difficult and snappy. It's not true!

Ah, he is very cute @MissShapesMissStakes - and yes I probably would have thought he was a poodle cross to be honest, so point taken from previous posts that I have an antiquated image of poodles!

Why don’t you start with a list of breeds less likely to trigger allergies, and go from there?

I’ve just had a google and love the look of the soft coated wheaten terrier 😍

Cairns are great too.

Don’t discount the yorkie either . Feisty little things, half lapdog, half rodent killing machine...

Have just discovered champdogs website where you can put your name on a waiting list for a litter - only pedigree breeds I think. Anyone know if this is a good site?

Yes I think champdogs is reputable. I think on KC approved breeders are on there and they tend to publish pedigrees so you can have a proper nosy.

That’s where I found my breeder because I was looking for a particular line :)

Great, thanks. Looking at border and cairn terriers now!

Champdogs is better than others - if the breeder says there are health tests then champdogs checks them, so you tend to get some decent breeders on there.

You still have to weed them out though

Yes - it’s the weeding out process that worries me. Out of interest is Pets4Homes ever an ok place to find a puppy? Seen some puppies advertised, apparently parents kennel club registered all looks ok, but still feel inclined to distrust!

I wouldn't trust ANY puppies on freelistings at the moment.

All good reputable and responsible breeders will now have waiting lists (potentially 1-2 years long). Anyone whose got puppies magically available have bred purely for profit and are likely to be backyard breeders without the relevant health testing or a front for a puppy farm or puppy smuggler (that's dogs shipped in from Eastern Europe in boxes under seats in vans, sometimes drugged up so they don't bark).

Look on ChampDogs, contact registered breeders on there. Yes that's not perfect either but it's all we have at the moment. Be expected to be asked lots of questions about your family, home and lifestyle, be worried if they have no questions for you and just want your cash.

Do a ton of research on breeds and their traits especially. If you don't want a puppy that's as mad as a box of frogs, you would want a pup bred from dogs that are not only had all the relevant health tests, but both parents should have excellent temperaments too.

Ok, thanks, think this will be a long haul process then... have contacted a few breeders on champ dogs to begin with, but no replies yet. Also signed up to their waiting lists, but guess it is a sellers market. Yes, I would be suspicious of anyone who didn’t interrogate potential buyers for suitability!