Puppy Survival Thread - January - February

[C4itl]

Continuing on the thread from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_doghouse/4105422-Puppy-Survival-Thread-December?pg=28 before we hit the message limit

@MaryIsA we were putting her in her bed in a playpen for a while but she doesn’t give in easily and will chew the bars/bed and drag it about and gets more manic! We’ve found now that she will go to sleep easier in her crate. Our downstairs is open plan so we don’t really have anywhere we could put a baby gate.

@Sparkle79 yes we do have a Kong but I do need to get another so I can freeze one/wash one etc. I def need to get a bit more creative on the feeding front. Ice cube tray is a good idea. Thought of maybe a snuffle mat too.

@WeeM fair enough on the crate front.

We give ours a treat in a folded over old toilet roll tube or kitchen roll tube and that keeps her busy for a bit getting at it. Or a box with scrunched up newspaper and some treats in. We've also got a snuffle mat.

She liked a frozen carrot, a finished yoghurt pot, (but keep an eye on her) , brocolli stalks, an a little frozen meat juice in a pot. Also frozen raw chicken wings and lambs tails.

@WeeM totally second @MaryIsA’s suggestion of the toilet roll/kitchen roll with a treat in it! Keeps Plantpup occupied for a while because she’ll hunt for the treat then rip the toilet roll apart after

Plantpup is a similar age (almost 14 weeks) and can get similarly grumpy in her crate during the day. Do you stay with her? Plantpup has got worse over the last week or so, so I’ve started to stay with her for the first 5/10 minutes after she goes in there. I don’t let her out or really interact with her just sit in the room with her and then when she is more settled she tends to be a bit more chilled about me leaving and settles to sleep. Trainer suggested to avoid her getting stressed about it as much as possible so trying to work out what the trigger to the upset is and minimise/avoid it is what I’m trying to do (with mixed success!!)

Is her crate covered? I have found covering it has helped as if she stirs mid-nap she doesn’t realise I’m not there so just drifts back to sleep rather than panicking and starting crying and barking etc

@WeeM welcome to the thread! Yep all sounds identical and so food driven. We are mega strict with the food as dont want weight issues which are obviously common with pugs, we keep a few grams back from each meal for treats etc.

Re biting we were told similar re ignoring but say no biting first and try replace with a toy. If unsuccessful then stand up straight and ignore him, we knew when he got it as he would sit down or just move onto something else.

During dinner we do similar to Sparkle but find the lickimat is the only thing that takes him ages to eat, we spread peanut butter really thinly and as far down it as possible and it takes him 20 mins or so to finish. We have a snuffle mat but he struggles to get right into that possibly due to his flat face? Not sure with the Kong, he can't seem to get into it properly but maybe as he gets older he will. Also we have taught 'in your bed' so we can say in your bed when we are just about to have our dinner (obv do it other times too) and he'll run into the crate.

Pugs are actually quite clever, I think the assumption is that they arent, but very easily distracted as they love everything and everyone.

Oh yes same as @Plantlover23 we find if we leave the crate uncovered he won't settle but when we cover it he'll sleep.

We've tried the toilet rolls and boxes full of scrunched up paper but he just wants to eat the cardboard

@LondonPupMum as you've probably read we have had huge issues with this, pugpup is so friendly and in spite of obviously not meeting people much due to lockdown he is very confident with people and dogs so was constantly pulling to get to them.

It has taken 2 walks out with the trainer and she has tried a couple of different things with him. We were trying 'no touch' to help with any moving objects (cats at home, anything outside), he responds well but only if you can get his attention on you first. Same with wait, stay etc. So what she has said is to try and preempt people/other dogs, get his attention to you before he clocks them. Depending on the situation we are using a mixture of those cues, if he definitely won't be able to say hi to them (scooters, joggers, bikes) then we use no touch, as soon as they pass then move him along quickly or immediately if possible. If its someone we know then wait so hes calmer, then go say hi.

Indoors we use stay (so he stays in the lounge and watches me answer the door) once either the gate is shut or the person is inside then I slowly walk back to him, treat him (although don't need to now as hes been doing it a few weeks) then say 'go say hi'. We practice this every day as we now never use our keys so he gets to do it.

The other thing the trainer thinks will work best for us is 'heel'. He is so food orientated that it generally overrides anything else. If I can get him to heel more then it distracts him as all his is interested in is his treats. I am struggling a bit as he's so small so its hard not to trip over him especially as I am holding the treat and tapping my leg high up so he's jumping. Trainer said to try a long spoon. I may try the Kong with peanut butter to just hold down, someone also suggested freezing baby food jars so they can lick them?

@LondonPupMum what i probably should have said is that pugpup has responded really well to those 2 walks and the new methods and has been really good this last 2 days. The first couple of minutes if its a new place can be a bit crazy but after that hes great. I find 1 longer walk is better than 2 short ones but obviously this is going to depend a lot on breed of dog.

@MaryIsA she likes a carrot but haven’t tried freezing so will give that go. She does really like natural yoghurt too. I need to get better about trying different things I think. Think I’m just struggling juggling it all with working/homeschooling too.

@Plantlover23 yeah we have always had a blanket draped over the crate and we’ve tried to put it in a quiet corner. I have been trying to potter about a bit rather than just walk away. Had mixed success so far! This morning I put her lickimat in and she sat with that no bother but as soon as she’d finished it she started chewing the lickimat and then the bedding !

She loves a loo roll but she does destroy it pretty quickly although she doesn’t seem to actually try to swallow it.

@PugInTheHouse you could be right about the snuffle mat I never thought of that. Might leave one just now. She loves her kong but is struggling to get stuff out now if it’s packed in too much, I think I maybe need the next size up now but they seem hard to get at the moment. Any time I look they seem to be out of stock. I’m going to try the peanut butter on the lickimat later I think and see how she likes that.

Think I’m worried about how it’s going to work on the school run for instance if she can’t be left. School is just too far for her to walk there and back at mo. Suppose I could carry her back but not sure how she’d like that!

She does love everyone though...tries to talk/jump up on everyone she passes! If I was walking to school would probably need to leave half an hour earlier!

Thanks for all the help

@Sparkle79 I think there’s just too much to see and hear if it’s uncovered!! All too exciting

@PugInTheHouse how did you teach your ‘on your bed’ cue? I have tried it with Plantpup by every time she goes in she gets a treat and I say the common, but I think the issue is with her I’m still having to lure here there 9/10 times as she doesn’t want to go unless she’s very very tired!

@Plantlover23 To start I held the treat inside the crate, waited till he had all 4 paws in, then called him to come to me to have the treat, so he didn't have the treat till he stayed there for 3 seconds and then had it outside the crate. Built it up by holding the treat further away and also shutting the door. He's happy to go in it as long as I don't leave the room.

He definitely relates it to treats though, but it is handy to get him to go in when I need him somewhere safe or out of the way eg when we are cooking/eating or when I do need to leave him for longer than 2 mins. As he still cries so much I can't do the separation training if I need a shower or to get ready etc so it's the only way round it right now.

I do use it for getting him in there when I want him to 'stay' when I leave the room. I don't treat him until I come back into the room and let him out. I let him out when he is sat nicely for 3 seconds.

It hasn't been successful in keeping him calm when I leave him (with no lickimat) but I know its partly my fault as I don't leave him enough, and partly the fact we are home so much right now.

@PugInTheHouse I’ll try and bit more in and out with her I think. She goes in there happily just don’t think she associates it with a cue at all. I think treating when they come out is also sensible if they’ve been sitting nicely/quietly for a set amount of time!

And of course similar issues with me leaving the room where she will just cry and bark unless she is sleepy enough to settle herself.

We say 'uh oh' every time he doesn't get it right, we were told rather than to repeat the cue, reset it by saying 'uh oh' then start over again.

That’s a nice idea too! The temptation to be like ‘sit’ ..... ‘sit’...... ‘sit’ is too great sometimes!

@PugInTheHouse how long does yours go between pees now? The last few days ours has morning pee at 7 but now at 11.40 still hasn’t had another. Seems to drink plenty though. The constant outside, crate, cry in crate, back outside after 15 mins, repeat until she does it is getting really tiresome!

Poor old Cantepup has a urine infection - I’m grateful to you @Plantlover23 because your sharing of plantpup’s experience meant that it was top of my mind. Also I was primed to catch her first wee this morning - got a bit in a ladle and then straight into a food bag. It looked like nothing but the vet was impressed and it was enough to do a stick test, which confirmed blood and protein in her wee. So 7 days of antibiotics for her - I hope they kick in soon. She’s squatting every couple of minutes with nothing or next to nothing coming out.

@WeeM Plantpup chews her bedding too! She doesn’t have an actual bed anymore, just two small blankets which she has shown less interest in chewing and I’m not so worried if she does anyway. She also digs in actual beds constantly!

@Canteloupe33 oh no poor Cantepup! I’m glad it helped a little and amazing job with the ladle, it is definitely a task easier said than done. Fingers crossed she’s feeling better soon, it has been a few days of Plantpup’s medicine now and she seems near enough back to normal today so hopefully won’t be long until Cantepup is on the mend

The only time I was told to repeat is when I am asking him to stay. We practice with me walking away and as i get further or see him twitch I say good stay.

@WeeM similar really, as a rule he has never wee'd that often, even at 8 weeks we never took him for a wee every 15 mins as he never needed to. Until abou 15 weeks he was brilliant and would go to the backdoor every time. We had a huge regression with wees (perfect with poos). He just decided to wee indoors, we also kept missing him as he seems to wee every 4 hrs, then sometimes every hour. At night he was only ever up once, even with a huge drink before bed. He's much better again now but not perfect.

@PugInTheHouse thanks, we’ve been going out every 1.5 hours and she’s always been great through the night. 8 hours now. She never goes to back door when she needs to we really have no clue if she actually needs until she squats in the living room! Although she very rarely does that to be fair. I think we maybe just need to stop the in and out and just see what happens!

Puppypup is driving me mad barking at everyone who walks past the house. Have been trying to teach 'quiet' as he goes on and on! Doesn't help that it really puts me on edge - visibly trying to relax about it as I don't want him to pick up that it makes me tense. He has seemed a bit on edge the last couple of days, woke up much ealier than usual this am as well. Wondering if it's more testosterone and teenageness kicking in or secondary fear phase.

@WeeM so we had to do things slightly differently as vet advised us to keep him in till 2nd jabs as we have a family of foxes living 2 doors away and there was poo in the garden every day so quite high risk unless we could disinfect the patio every time.

We had a pee pad at the back door, just the one and would put him on it every time we thought he needed one. Within a day or two he would go to it automatically so we were amazed and thought how lucky we were (we got comfortable too soon!).

The idea was to then move it outside when he went towards it and then he would wee outside. It worked first day with poos, he now rings a bell or barks to go out every time. With wees it seemed to stop him going to the back door and he just wee'd wherever he fancied. We went back to basics and now if he doesn't ask to go out for a wee then at worst case he will go at the backdoor. He will always wee and poo on a walk now also. We are still putting him out when we think he will need to go, for instance today he went at 815 on his walk, then slept for ages, I tried to put him out at 1130 but he wasn't interested so I sat him on my lap. He had his lunch at 12 so I put him straight outside till he went, he was desperate to come back inside (weather horrible) but I knew if I let him as soon as I sat down he'd wee at the backdoor. He wee'd after a couple of mins so I can now relax haha!

It is worse when everyone is home, if I am cooking or something I ask the others to keep an eye on him, he wees inside EVERY time then as no one does, he is worse in the evening as he's tired so he needs watching. I got so cross last night, I have said I am allocating a specific person every time from now on and they must watch him!

@WeeM you’re describing what I find so hard! When do I stop with the in out in out in out and just see what happens and whether she’ll ask consistently and gets it?! Otherwise I’m not sure how I’ll ever know when she gets it!

@PugInTheHouse we practised heel today with Londonpup in the park with some high value food which he was really good at. And we did some look and focus training when he was on the longline with dogs or people nearby. He was really good!

Need to try it for street walking though on the lead which was a lot more painful yesterday as we live in a busy area. May do some practice with the wooden spoon which is a great idea.

We bumped into a cocker spaniel puppy who really scared him because he was so energetic hope this doesn’t scar him for life lol

@WeeM, hi, we are at the same stage. She has been awful today even with enforced crating. I think it may be a change in routine after a weeks leave. She was great during the week, slept most of the day, out for a walk, then a bit bitey later on. Literally questioning why I am putting myself through it. Lucky hubby gets to go to work and is also away for the night too.On a brighter note, on our walk yesterday saw 5 cockerpoos one after another, and was reassured by how calm they were and what the owners said. She is now on the sofa, snoozing nxt to me

[quote Plantlover23]@WeeM you’re describing what I find so hard! When do I stop with the in out in out in out and just see what happens and whether she’ll ask consistently and gets it?! Otherwise I’m not sure how I’ll ever know when she gets it![/quote]
I know, this is what we are finding the toughest I think. And then if she doesn’t pee/poo at same trip then I’m not sure what to do with timings .
and then like @PugInTheHouse says, sometimes you think you’ve cracked it and then she will just randomly do it in the middle of the floor! I wondered about trying the bells but honestly I think it’d just be something else for her to go mad playing with

I reckon lead walking is the worst, on the long line he's great. We were lulled into a false sense of security with his lead walking as for the first couple of weeks he was great.