Puppy Survival Thread - January - February

[C4itl]

Continuing on the thread from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_doghouse/4105422-Puppy-Survival-Thread-December?pg=28 before we hit the message limit

I should also add for people with younger puppies, SparklePup is 20 weeks now and the biting is definitely getting better and tends to be lighter (ie not breaking skin) He used to constantly be nipping at our feet and hands (my hands were sore all the time) and we just used to pick up a toy and put it in his mouth and say "toy". If he kept trying to bite us we would get up and walk off which seemed to snap him out of it and he'd just follow us looking confused, and then we'd get a toy and say "toy".

Then when he picked up a toy and came to us with one we'd make a big fuss of him and say "yes toy" and then play with him and now he will mainly get a toy before he comes to us.

He still bites but as I say it tends to be lighter and we can usually pinpoint it to something eg teething, frustration or being over tired so just to give you all hope, it does get easier and less painful!!

Thanks so so much @Doje, @Posiemam and @Sparkle79, it really makes me feel better that these problems are common and I feel less bad about popping her in the pen when she is biting us as it seems so linked to tiredness. I still find it hard to move away though, if she stirs and finds me not there then she gets agitated even though DP is just at his desk. Have just ordered some pigs’ ears, yak sticks and Dentastix from Amazon too!!

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat good to see you back on the thread! Glad things are going ok for you all.

We had some good progress today with the lead walking, he is responding better when picking stuff up from the floor or when we see other people, he i better in the park as there is more to distract him so eating stones, leaves and moss is not his main priority.

Pugpup also was running round on the long line in the park, really good recall on that but he decided that as it was raining and everything was muddy he would roll around it in for ages. Was rubbing his face in it as well as his whole body. It was so much fun. We showered him in the wet room which he seemed to like. He has pretty much slept all aternoon since we got back bless him.

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat good to see you back. Hopefully his condition can be managed.

We have seen a step change in Frenchpup's biting the past few days, the diffence is that we have upped her level of exercise.

She is a gun dog, and 25 minutes walk (she is 5 months) was just not enough. She was biting us, eating anything she could get her teeth into (with a particular fondness for slippers and important paperwork) and generally being a pest.

For the past 4-5 days she has had a 20 minute walk in the morning and a 45 -1 hour walk in the afternoon (mostly on long lead or off lead). The difference is remarkable. We have the dog we wanted. She is calm, affectionate, easy going.

I know everyone repeats the 5 minute per month rule, but I have been trying to find actual evidence as to whether a longer walk can harm a 5 month old puppy and have found none. She is energetic throughout the walk and shows no sign of being tired.

We are not first time dog owners, but genuinely can't remember how long our old dogs walks were at this age. I was pregnant when we got her and had DD3 when she was 5 months old. I remember long walks with the pram but no idea how old she was.

These are 2 site I have found that seem reasonable:
www.walkervillevet.com.au/blog/how-much-to-exercise-a-puppy/
www.vets4pets.com/pet-health-advice/dog-advice/puppy/appropriate-exercise-for-your-puppy/
So evidence for large breed using stairs at 3 months having problems and problems in labradors chaing balls, but no real evidence for walking being a problem.

As a gun dog her litter mates were bought by men who use them for their intended purposes and I have no doubt they are all being trained up in the field spending hours running around.

Has anyone seen any actual evidence for the exercise limit? Our vet said nothing about it. It might not be the answer for those who have small dogs but for those of us with larger or gun dogs I wonder if the limit is causing more problems than it solves. (I am not suggesting that an 8 week puppy can go for long walks, just that by the time they are 5 months they need the exercise).

Sorry that was long, and potentially controversial.

I'm also interested in this @FrenchFancy. We also have a gun dog and I can't see the difference between a long run around indoors / in the garden vs a 45 minute walk. I asked my vet and she said he's still growing and so you shouldnt want put too much pressure on his joints and bones, and that half an hour is enough. Which I thought was interesting as Dpup is 4 months, so theoretically only 'allowed' 20 minutes.

I'm not doing long lead walks, but we are at times out for 45 minutes, with 5 minutes getting where we're going, 20 - 30 minutes running about, watching, sniffing etc, then 5 minutes walk home. He's not brilliant on the lead yet, so I am avoiding a full 30 minutes with him pulling constantly.

Has anyone seen any actual evidence for the exercise limit?

It's one of those topics

My vet and what I have read took it as a limit for onlead walking on hard pavements. I wasn't bothered about the 'rule' off lead on soft surfaces like grass/forest etc where they could stop if they wanted to.

I have a WCS and typically as an adult I don't do excessive walks as it can be over stimulating. I also didn't bother with the rule off much lead as a puppy and used judgement on how tired he looked.

@Frenchfancy, we also wondered about this as its great to be out walking, you can’t get anywhere without turning back straight away. Although my friend has a cocker spaniel and they did a hike with him when he was young(he was a bit of a handful by all accounts) and he has arthritis in his joints apparently down to this. Although I think there is a world of difference between the two and if the biting is less, tat can only be a good thing.

So I think I have been doing the walking/exercise wrong. I have no idea why but I thought the 5 mins per month was per walk, so 2 x walks a day I have no idea why. The trainer said today that no more than 30 mins exercise in a day for him. I have completely misunderstood as though it was a limit for pavement walking and when we got to the park he could run freely if just playing around.

To be honest although he has been on 2 x 20 min walks, it is only because he stops so often and is not the fastest as he's small so probably only 2 x 10 min actual walking. He seems to be better having more exercise but obviously his breed means we do need to ensure he isn't overdoing it due to damaging his hips. He is also a nightmare for jumping off the sofa. I sometimes wonder if he thinks he's a bigger dog than he is

I guess a long hike could be several hours including going up and down hills so possibly going too far the other way.

My on lead on hard pavements is limited to about 10 minutes a day. She still isn't great on a short lead, but is fab on a long lead or off lead.

Another issue could be dogs getting overweight if they don't get enough exercise, I guess that could be more damaging.

@Frenchfancy

I guess a long hike could be several hours including going up and down hills so possibly going too far the other way.

My on lead on hard pavements is limited to about 10 minutes a day. She still isn't great on a short lead, but is fab on a long lead or off lead.

Another issue could be dogs getting overweight if they don't get enough exercise, I guess that could be more damaging.

I think weight is far more of a problem on joints

@Frenchfancy we have a WCS. I tried to stick to that 5 minutes per month thing (which I'm pretty sure is twice a day @PugInTheHouse, that's what I always thought and have just read on PDSA) but it went out the window when she got to about 18 weeks. It just wasn't enough for her. I think it is a bit of a controversial topic so I decided not to stress about it. Having the same rule for a pug and a labrador seems daft. I do try to do most of her walks on grass and she gets off-lead where possible cos I feel like logically that would minimise the risks. Left to her own devices she'd be on the go all day if we let her so I don't feel I'm forcing her to overexercise or anything, she never stops or lies down on a walk. She's just much easier to be around when she's had sufficient time outdoors. My main worry about joints is related to her jumping on and off furniture or the climbing frame at daycare. Again I try to minimise it but can't cut it out completely.

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat Good to see you back. It's such a shame you're having to deal with this but hopefully it'll be managed well with medication.

@PugInTheHouse I thought it was per walk too. So 5 mins per month of age twice a day?

To be honest HummusPup would go nuts if we only did 25 minutes a day. We’ve been doing more than this - probably 30 (sometimes a little longer) mins twice a day but almost all off lead and usually on grass. She runs around as much as she likes but she also spends a lot of time stopping and sniffing - I think if they are going at their own pace and you’re not forcing them to pound the pavements for ages it’s probably ok. If we only did 25 minutes once a day I think she’d just be bouncing off every bit of furniture in the house which is probably more damaging for the joints!!

She also does about 15 minutes on lead too separately- more of a training session than a walk really because she pulls like a train

@ashmts I have just checked and it says the same on Vets 4 Pets also. Pugpup is very energetic indoors so probably has half hour of running in the garden and playing around indoors then 2 x 20 min walks but they are just pavement slowish walks so it is probably OK. I think I will just keep an eye on how much he is actually doing just in case.

I agree, it seems so strange to have the same time for a pug and a lab. If you think that even as adults they say you only need 20/30 mins each walk for a pug (although most do a lot more) so you would think they need a lot less as pups.

We saw the most gorgeous 20 week old lab today who played with pugpup, it was so sweet as they were lovely together. Labpup was 3 times his size.

@SpreadHummusNotHate I think maybe the trainer was meaning that he only needs 1 x 25/30 min walk as anything at home needs to be included in his total exercise for the day.

I will stick to what we are doing I think.

Plantpup has suddenly decided she hates her crate She has always whined a little when I pop her in for a sleep if I leave the room whilst she’s away but only for 2 or so minutes max. Today she has whined and whined and whined mixed in with a little bark and howl every now and again. She has also taken to digging at the bottom of the crate. All of this is happening even if I am in the room with her and she is really sleepy. I’m very confused as up until now she has had a fairly good relationship with her crate and always goes in there willingly with either a treat or a Kong Could teething have anything to do with it? Possibly making her feel out of sorts? Probably clutching at straws

@Plantlover23 have you checked there isn't any food that's stuck in the sides or underneath it that she can smell but can't get to? Speaking from experience! One piece of kibble had gone under his crate and it drove him crazy!

@Sparkle79 I’ll have a look when she wakes up this morning, this could definitely be what’s happened, she’s forever eating in there

@Plantlover23 same happened to us, there were some bits of a chewed up dental stick stuck under the blanket.

@Sparkle79 @PugInTheHouse You were both right! The smallest crumbs had snuck under there so no doubt that’s what she was stressed about! Thank you

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat so pleased to hear your news and I hope everything continue to improve!

re the walking, we did speak to the vet about it and her advice was

1. Don't use one of those ball flingers till they are a lot older because that 'makes' them run fast and then stop suddenly and that's bad for their joints. So when they are puppies, throw the ball with your own hand/arm.
2. Try not to let them do too much jumping up and down
3. it's worse to suddenly up walking than it is to regularly walk - so if they are used to doing 20 mins twice a day, then you do an hour in one go, that can be v strenuous on their joints just because they are growing and not used to it

I carried Happy up the stairs when he was small (in general he's not allowed upstairs anyway) and now when we go to the stairs, he puts his paw out for me to pick him up

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat so happy to hear pup is ok and hopefully the medication will manage things for you.

Can I introduce our eight week old Doberman pup, she arrives on Friday.....

I'll be on here a lot!!

@Doberwow She's gorgeous. This is a very supportive forum and I found it very helpful when Grannypup was very small

@Doberwow, she's gorgeous. Enjoy the ride!

I'm clinging on again today. Barely. Her sleeping is good really. Night and day. But two things. I'm finding it so boring and feel trapped. If anything, half term is harder than work and homeschool. Then, this morning, I found fleas on her. I could cry. She is distracted and has a couple of little rashes. Bloody cat. Has been treated, but has them on her from time to time.