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Puppy Survival Thread - December

702 replies

Hellin301 · 13/12/2020 13:11

Day 5 of new puppy and I’m wondering what possessed me to go through all this Hmm he’s a little devil at times, most of the time actually with odd moments of cuteness

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19
blowinahoolie · 06/01/2021 09:06

Puppy arrives this afternoon and we will start by leaving her in her crate tomorrow morning. Going to take DCs round the block so she has ten minutes on her own.

blowinahoolie · 06/01/2021 09:07

Same here HappyThursdays I think the lockdown is a worry. We were about to enquire about puppy classes but it looks like it's a waste of time as none will be open.

ashmts · 06/01/2021 09:30

@blowinahoolie Obviously your puppy, your decision, but everything I've read has suggested you need to work up very slowly to leaving them alone to prevent separation anxiety. There's no way I'd have left my puppy in her crate and left the house on day 2. Tbh I didn't have the option, it took her 3 weeks to accept the crate even overnight. Are you on the Facebook group Dog Training Advice and Support? It has lots of good tips on positive reinforcement training. I read their posts often and have seen a lot of people end up with issues because they've tried to force their puppy to be or sleep alone too soon.

Daycare guy has pointed out that pup is pulling too much so we really need to get working on the loose lead walking. We've slacked a bit over Christmas (I think cos we knew we were starting training soon) so need to pick things up again. She's so small it hasn't been a problem yet but she definitely is starting to get heavier and stronger. Leave it/drop it just isn't happening so far but fortunately she's stopped picking things up on walks as much as she used to.

HappyThursdays · 06/01/2021 09:59

@ashmts have you got a cocker from memory?

we had a terrible time with happypup on the lead and have been working constantly over the last 1.5 months to make it better. Today for the first time on the way back from his walk in the park he only pulled on the lead twice. It does take a really long time and we basically stopped treats for anything other than good walking. Two tips we were given that have worked really well - if they are over excitable pullers on the lead don't start the training until they are tired and calm otherwise it will be much harder and make sure he can do it in the house, then garden, then garden with distractions, then pavement in that order so you're not setting him up to fail.

we have definitely not perfected it yet but it's a lot better than it was!

ashmts · 06/01/2021 10:08

@HappyThursdays Yes, WCS so I think exact same as you? We have a girl though. We started in the house last night, just a few minutes on the lead walking beside DP getting some treats. She was brilliant, but I know as soon as we try it on a walk she'll get distracted. I've got my Primula squeezy cheese at the ready to take with me. Good tips, thanks. She seems to pull most often either at the start of walks when she's excited to get out or when she's had a walk and knows we're heading home. She's okay in the middle.

HappyThursdays · 06/01/2021 10:10

yes that is the exactly the same as us and the same with the pulling at the start and the end....they are really clever dogs and know where they are going!

blowinahoolie · 06/01/2021 10:50

ash we were told by breeder to get her used to it. She is almost 13 weeks old. Breeder has explained not to be with her all the time. She is already used to being left anyway at the moment. We would need to keep this up when she arrives.

PoleToPole · 06/01/2021 11:24

@blowinahoolie I completely agree with @ashmts sadly a lot of breeders, even good ones, follow outdated advice. I have fostered many, many dogs (including six St Bernards), I have kept Great Pyrs for lots of years and I have absolutely never had a dog who has had even the slightest separation anxiety.
Even those fosters who came to me with severe separation anxiety have left me absolutely fine and happy to be left.

But you do not get them used to being left by throwing them in the deep end and expecting them to just deal with it. That would be like throwing a toddler into ten foot deep water and expecting them to swim. You have to teach them the skills, confidence and independence first, and you start by developing a strong bond with them.

St Bernards mature more slowly, like most giants, they are babies for longer and whilst your breeder may have been getting her used to being left, she is about to be taken from the home she knows, her mother and littermates, its a huge and stressful change for her.
You need to make certain she knows she can trust you and depend on you before you start abandoning her, which is how she will see it.

It is completely different if she is left now, in the home she has known since birth, she trusts that she is safe there. She doesn`t know you from Adam, please give her time to adjust to her new family and home before you start leaving her.

You don`t stop separation anxiety by leaving them from the start, you stop it by keeping them close, building their confidence and bonding with them so that they trust you, and know that they can rely on you to look after them.
Then you gradually build up it it, starting with one family member going out for ten minutes at a time whilst the other family members are still with them.

PoleToPole · 06/01/2021 11:28

Sorry posted too soon as PolePup is on my lap playing a favourite game of lick the finger which is pressing the keyboard!

@blowinahoolie your pup your choice, but I promise you that you will not give your pup separation anxiety by keeping her close whilst she`s just a baby Smile

blowinahoolie · 06/01/2021 11:56

Pole DH has to work from home so he will still be around. I appreciate what you are saying, she will need to acclimatise to her new environment first before we start gradually leaving her alone. Point taken on board 👍

puppygalore · 06/01/2021 12:43

Omg this morning was definitely one to forget!

Pup had been very sick and had diarrhoea in the night, poor girl. We only discovered it all at 8.30 this morning. Although H said he heard her whining at 3am and 'it went on and on' he moaned at me before we went downstairs. Didn't think to go down and check on her or even get me up to check her! Daft sod. I've told him so many times if he hears anything just to wake me.

It took the both of us over 2.5 hours to clean her, the crate and bed, the carpet, the floor...and because she shook herself on the way out of the front room, we had to scrub all the (white) walls through the entire downstairs as it looked like a blood splatter crime scene, except with poo ShockConfused She's had 2 showers, was feeling sorry for herself after those, but has kept down some water and a bit of chicken and is currently having an epic nap. I'm hoping it's nothing and she sleeps it off, she was happy as Larry earlier (before we showered her!) so fingers crossed it's just a weird little bug.

PoleToPole · 06/01/2021 12:55

It is so tough @blowinahoolie there is so much conflicting information, but teaching pups to cope with separation is a huge thing, and not a natural thing for them at all. Their family is their protection, their safety, their comfort and ultimately their survival.

When they are pups they are vulnerable, and they know it, being left without protection is terrifying for them, they don`t know if you will come back, and in their eyes even if you do anything could happen in the meantime - a predator could rock up and eat them. As they become teenagers and then adults they are much more capable of looking after themselves, and again they know it.

In a pups eyes is not "normal" for them to be left unprotected, and so when you leave them alone you are asking for a huge amount of trust and confidence, you are asking them to get past an enormous mental block. That trust and confidence will not be there from the start (especially when theyve just left their mum, siblings and the only home they`ve ever known), you need to build that so that they know that they are safe in your house, and that nothing bad will happen to them there, and that they can absolutely and completely rely on you, 100 per cent of the time.

When they know beyond a shadow of doubt they can rely on you, you begin to have a chance of asking the "abnormal" of them. The more your bond builds, and their trust in you grows, and the older and less vulnerable they become, the easier it will be for them. One of the ways you give them confidence by keeping them close when they are small, ie what`s normal and trusted in their eyes.

Most importantly - good luck this afternoon and enjoy Grin

PoleToPole · 06/01/2021 12:57

And also @blowinahoolie I do not think for a second that dogs shouldn`t be left, it just needs time and careful handling, all the more with the slower maturing giants.

HappyThursdays · 06/01/2021 13:05

yes enjoy @blowinahoolie. I bet your kids cannot wait!

poor you @puppygalore, that sounds horrific. I hope he's ok. Did he eat something different yesterday?

happy pup's perfect fit harness has arrived and I am delighted as is he. I got a fluorescent one as he's a black dog and I have terrible eyesight so it's really important I can see him when he's off lead and it's bright orange like a belisha beacon Grin so there will be no missing him!

blowinahoolie · 06/01/2021 13:07

Cheers PoleToPole grateful for the advice as we are novices here lol. Taking it all on board, and really looking forward to meeting her shortly. I expect the first night to be tough😬

PoleToPole · 06/01/2021 13:15

No worries @blowinahoolie I was worried about coming across as harsh, which was not my intention at all.

It is a minefield, I grew up watching my parents train working dogs, and training my own from a young age, and never once have I ever heard my parents raise voice their voices, punish or scold a dog. All of their training was confidence building and based on respect, bonding and trust - highly unusual back in the day, but so universally effective and such a joy to work with dogs in that way.
St Bernards are lovely dogs, you will have many happy adventures ahead Grin

PoleToPole · 06/01/2021 13:18

And yes - have plenty of coffee, human biscuits/chocolate/tasty snacks on hand to see you through the first night. She might be so worn out after all the changes today that nights two and three will be tougher, but it is so wonderful watching them grow and discover the world Smile.

PoleToPole · 06/01/2021 13:22

@HappyThursdays Grin I need something like that for PolePup and PoleDog, they are both camouflaged in the snow at night!

Oh no @puppygalore Shock. Poor girl.

PugInTheHouse · 06/01/2021 15:15

Pugpup is very very clingy. He won't go to sleep unless he can see me, even if I am putting my pjs on out of his eyeline he cries. I pop to the loo just before bed and he sits and barks till I get back then will lay down and sleep for the whole night. He cries at the door every time I leave the room, even if he appears to be fast asleep.

DH took him for a walk this morning (first without me) and he didn't want to go, just stood there staring at me sadly, then cried outside the front door. He was OK after a while and went on his walk (only about 15 mins) but it was like he hadn't seen me for days when he got in. The dog trainer says she believes it is learned behaviour not anxiety so will do some work with me on it.

I feel awful as I know it must be because I am just here all the time and haven't taught him to be alone. He doesnt care if DH or DSs are there, its just me.

scochran · 06/01/2021 15:27

We got our puppy before first lockdown and made she she was left alone and sometimes in her crate . When we went back to normal she was fine and loved going out with her walker too.
I'm worried about ruining all that now, I'll go to work from next week but there will always be someone in. I've been known to go out the back door so she sees me leaving then creeping in the front door and hiding upstairs for an hour to keep up the habit of thinking she is alone....bonkers probably

PoleToPole · 06/01/2021 16:05

@scochranoc Grin she will be able to smell you in the house, and hear you come in, however much you creep. Unless she is deaf/has hearing loss of course.

What I have done with my fosters with severe separation anxiety (I do a "light" version with pups) is every day I have taken them to get the mail, the mail box is at the end of our driveway, which is pretty long, so walking up there and back takes a few minutes.
Before I take them, I say "just going to get the mail" after a few days or weeks (depending on how anxious) I say "just going to get the mail, back in a minute" and go out of the door and sit on the bench outside for ten seconds.
Then I come back in and say "I`m back" and greet them happily but calmly, and not over the top. Gradually I increase the time on the bench until its five minutes, then I actually do go and get the mail.

The idea behind doing it this way is that they can smell me outside the door, and hear me, so they know that although I am out of sight I am still there, and they already know what "going to get the mail" entails, ie its quick, still on our property, something I do everyday, and something I always return from.

When I do actually start getting the mail, they can`t see or smell me, but again already know I will be back soon as they used to accompany me, so know exactly what I am doing and where I am going.
Then I start taking them in the car to the gas station/shop and just park for five minutes, do not actually shop or put gas in the car, same "just going to the gas station" and then again "just going to the gas station, back in a minute". So now its getting them used to hearing the car leave too, and again something they know as they have been accompanying you, and you can slowly increase the time you are out.

Then gradually you phase out the "just going to..." and just stick with the "back in a minute". So wherever you go now they trust you that "back in a minute" means just that, and they have seen time and time again that you will return, and all the while you work on confidence building, and your bond with them grows, so that they know that they can rely on you.

You can also leave a kong/puzzle game for them whilst out, personally I prefer puzzles, but whatever works best.

One of the very respected behaviourists I worked closely with is very anti not making a fuss of your dog when you return, and having seen and tried it both ways many times I completely agree.
The reasoning is that your dog is always happy to see you, they love you and want to be with you, and so in their minds you should be happy to see them too.
Coming in and not greeting them is not "normal" in their world, and when you are asking them to learn to cope with something "abnormal" like leaving them alone, keeping as many things normal and sensible to them as possible helps hugely. They understand much better, and so will be much more willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and trust you that leaving isn`t such a big deal.

For a happy, loved dog or pup, rarely any reason they would ever want to be away from their family. Its a bit of a foreign concept to dogs. They can in time learn to tolerate it, and with some dogs enjoy the activities they do whilst away from you, but their preference will always be to be with you.

By not ignoring them when you return, you are solidifying in their minds that they are a loved, valued family member, and that you would always rather be with them but sometimes you can`t, and that helps them feel secure. So, they are valued and loved so you will return and not leave them behind, iyswim.

I am not in the UK, and more and more behaviourists where I am are following the not ignoring advice now, but as always, your pup your choice. I am aware this goes against a lot of conventional advice given, but I have found it infinitely more successful at curing separation anxiety in even the most severe fosters I have had.

PoleToPole · 06/01/2021 16:08

But as always, that is just my experience. I just wanted to offer a different perspective Smile.
I have had many trainers berate me for that approach (and I know that the behaviourists in favour of it get a fair amount of flack too), but not a single one can argue with the results. Our brilliant vet always does the same with her fosters. It takes time, but its a much more gentle, and permanent approach to curing/preventing separation anxiety, and I am a huge fan of gentle training.

Frenchfancy · 06/01/2021 19:34

I'm pleased to hear you say that @PoleToPole. We always grated our Ddog when we got home because we didn't know we shouldn't. It just seemed natural. Tbh one of the nicest things about having a dog is having someone who is happy to see you when you get home. We never had a problem leaving her.

With Frenchpup I have read much more about behaviour etc and so was aware that it isn't recommended. Frenchpup is in the hallway when we are out. She sleeps in a crate but doesn't like the door closed and there is nothing she can damage in the hallway. It does mean that when I get home and open the door she is there straight away. No question of ignoring her as she is happy to see me, and needs to go out for a wee straight away.

GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat · 06/01/2021 19:45

I agree I’d feel gutted if GeorgiePup didn’t run to the door delighted to see me even when I’ve only been upstairs, if he feels the same at us being excited to see him then I love that we make each other so happy. If we ignored each other then that would be so sad. The only thing we are trying to teach is not jumping up which he is getting much better at.

PoleToPole · 06/01/2021 20:14

Thanks @Frenchfancy and @GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat I was in to minds whether to post as its probably the most controversial opinion I have, dog wise, which in itself is quite sad. Dogs derive a huge amount of joy from knowing they are loved and valued, it makes them feel happy and secure, it helps develop a much stronger bond and vastly increases their confidence.

As as you say it would break my heart not to even acknowledge mine when I see their faces light up with joy at our return, and I completely agree, its definitely one of the best bits about having a dog.