Puppy - at breaking point

[CrapDogOwner]

Possibly beyond.

Pup is 11 weeks. He is lovely - friendly, responds well to training.

I on the other hand am at the end of my tether. So sleep deprived I have spots before my eyes and I'm having dizzy turns. Spent first 10 days on floor near puppy, gradually moving further away. Thought I'd cracked it with 3 days in my own bed, but tonight he howled the house down.

So I'm on the sofa, fucking freezing, lying here thinking "this room now reeks of dog piss."

Because if he does go outside, I swear it's by accident. I spend half my life in the fucking garden with him. He has cast iron bladder and sphincter control - so long as he's outside. Come back inside - he immediately pisses and craps on the carpet.

My life is just a sheer hell of piss, crap and sleep deprivation and it's making me ill.

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

When I got mine he slept in a bed next to my bed. Why are you out in the garden with him all the time? Can you not pop him out himself?

How is the OP going to reinforce him toileting outside if she's not there?

@Veterinari ah I didn't know that so I stand corrected
Happy to report I have a happy healthy thriving pup who is an absolute joy to have!
I did a lot of research before I got him on how to manage , socialise and train a new pup. Never had an issue with crying at night, toileting is now sorted and he's great with other dogs and people... but I do remember that from age 10 weeks to 12 weeks it was so much harder than I anticipated... those damn needle teeth nearly broke me! He's through the other side now and and 20 barley mouths at all.

[quote zoomiecraziness]@Veterinari ah I didn't know that so I stand corrected
Happy to report I have a happy healthy thriving pup who is an absolute joy to have!
I did a lot of research before I got him on how to manage , socialise and train a new pup. Never had an issue with crying at night, toileting is now sorted and he's great with other dogs and people... but I do remember that from age 10 weeks to 12 weeks it was so much harder than I anticipated... those damn needle teeth nearly broke me! He's through the other side now and and 20 barley mouths at all. [/quote]
That's good. Believe it or not, my advice isn't just pulled out of thin air...

Nipping/biting is often a problem in pups rehomed early.

They learn bite inhibition from social interactions with their littermates during their nippy phase so if they're rehomed before this (or are a single pup) it can take a while for them to learn not to nip everyone when excited

Just to be devils advocate the studies looked at puppies 5 weeks not 7 weeks and as an experience dog handler I would always want to have my puppies before 8 weeks old (as most breeds I have are entering a fear stage at 8 weeks) and want to do the socialising myself so I hate the new law as do most assistance organisations and police,military dog workers.

However it does cut down on puppy farmed puppies being sold at an even earlier age so does serve a purpose and the law was made with good intentions. It is hard for anyone to palm a 5 week old pup off as an 8 week old puppy

I put my old bra, (cut the straps off) in the bed with the pup through the night. He loved it. No crate, no drama. Hate to show off but he was also fully house trained by 10 weeks. Readying some of this thread, starting to think I got really lucky

Thanks everyone for being so kind - don't think I was at my most rational at 3.00am and yesterday was just a really bad day.

We've had 3 poos and 3 wees outdoors, 2 near misses (by the back door when we weren't quite quick enough but he was trying to do the right thing) and only one wee on the carpet. (Going to treat myself to the hire of a carpet cleaner next weekend so I have something to look forward to ).

I tried the hot water bottle but unfortunately sharp little puppy teeth put paid to that. Bedtime ritual of special bedtime toy, dog biscuit and cuppa for me while watching TV sounds like an excellent plan.

He's a cocker X lab. I met a puppy from the previous litter, and they seem to get the lab laid-backness plus cocker trainability, so I'm hoping when we emerge from the puppy stage he'll be a nice, chilled dog.

@PollyRoulson

Just to be devils advocate the studies looked at puppies 5 weeks not 7 weeks and as an experience dog handler I would always want to have my puppies before 8 weeks old (as most breeds I have are entering a fear stage at 8 weeks) and want to do the socialising myself so I hate the new law as do most assistance organisations and police,military dog workers.

However it does cut down on puppy farmed puppies being sold at an even earlier age so does serve a purpose and the law was made with good intentions. It is hard for anyone to palm a 5 week old pup off as an 8 week old puppy

The point us Polly that socialisation should be starting well before 8 weeks, with the breeder, so if the breeder you get pups from is rearing the pups appropriately then this isn't an issue. The puppies in the study I linked were 30-40 days so actually, from 4 till almost 6 weeks in the early rehoming group, but the study also showed that pups separated at less than 2 months/8 weeks had poorer behavioural outcomes.

As a vet I've actually never met an assistance dog without anxiety/fear aggression problems. Granted I don't see huge numbers but I think it's an interesting observation when these pups are usually rehomed early. However most assistance dog programmes now work with specific breeders and lines to achieve their objectives and socialisation is part of that regardless of when rehoming occurs.

What breeds are you thinking of? The socialisation window generally runs from approx 6-12/16weeks and Whilst it does vary between breeds, suggesting it's over by 8 weeks seems pretty extreme. if you're sourcing pups from reputable breeders who use resources such as puppycontract.org.uk/puppy-breeder. Then you can easily see what socialisation has been done.

Basically if you're sourcing pups from parents with good temperaments that are reared in good environments and then housing and training them inappropriate environments using evidence-based methods then they're likely to respond well.

You may prefer to take a 6 week old pup, but the evidence supports that puppy welfare is generally better if you don't.

That sounds like positive progress @CrapDogOwner (you aren't by the way)

He's not a toy breed so should respond eventually!

Just keep maximising his chances to get it right and reward this, and limit any opportunities to toilet inside.

As a vet I've actually never met an assistance dog without anxiety/fear aggression problems. Bloody hell where do you work!

I did not say it is over by 8 weeks but starts at eight weeks as most current academic studies show. Border collies , GSD and Spaniels are known to enter this period before the 8 weeks. (hence why so many owners with crying puppies at nights have spaniel of spaniel mixes)

I am well aware of the socialisation window I am always harping on about it and the need for the breeders knowledge (and why socialiastion questions and ENR are vital questions to ask any breeder)

@PollyRoulson

As a vet I've actually never met an assistance dog without anxiety/fear aggression problems. Bloody hell where do you work!

I did not say it is over by 8 weeks but starts at eight weeks as most current academic studies show. Border collies , GSD and Spaniels are known to enter this period before the 8 weeks. (hence why so many owners with crying puppies at nights have spaniel of spaniel mixes)

I am well aware of the socialisation window I am always harping on about it and the need for the breeders knowledge (and why socialiastion questions and ENR are vital questions to ask any breeder)

Then I'm confused - I've no idea what you mean by pups that you work with entering a fear stage at 8 weeks whilst simultaneously accepting that most pups are open to socialisation at 8 weeks.

Yes socialisation does start earlier than 8 weeks, but an important part of socialisation is littermate and maternal interaction.

In terms of where I work - all over the UK and with assistance dogs from several different large charities. Like I said, not huge numbers, but in my experience they're usually very well trained and habituated to fairly specific circumstances. Veterinary care until fairly recently wasn't part of that habituation and so we often experience reactivity outside of the trained responses.

We must have met then if you are a vet for the assistant dog charities You work all over the UK? You are not in one practice?

Habititation is on the socialisation plan of assistant dogs from the age of 6 weeks (and has been since 1994 ish) - again surprised by what you have accounted

You have misinterpreted my post but heyho.

Op, I have a 16 week old golden retriever puppy and I’ve just about torn my hair out with him over the last few weeks.

I didn’t sleep down here with him, he has a quiet bedtime routine off to bed and sleeps till 6/7 off for a wee (never messed bed). Slept first night, cried his eyes out the second and has slept ever since fine on his own loves his crate although prefers to sleep on his bed during the day and doesn’t budge during naps.

He can sit, lie down, come, get off, wait and watch me but I’ve struggled with pee in the house I too could take out shares in enzyme cleaner, he’s bitey still however now I’ve had my mini meltdown consulted my trusty dog trainer and pulled myself together hopefully things will improve, he’s a bright spark and a lovely boy but I really forgot how hard it can be. I’ve been outside most of the day with him am sick of smelling like kibble and saying busy busy 🤣 however I am determined not to have a dog who is an arsehole!!. You’ll have good and bad days and days where you wonder what the heck you were playing at getting a puppy and wanting to send him back (I would never I love him to bits) but it’s frustrating to try and try and feel like you’ve got the devil on the end of your lead, perhaps my standards are too high. My little golden fluffball is sat at my feet fast asleep snoring his cute little head off. It will get better, do use cues for toilet training I think I’ve gone wrong somewhere but only one tiny accident today which is a huge improvement (all poo is outside)
Good luck 🤞

I’ve been there! Dog training advice and support saved what was left of my sanity. It’s a brilliant group. The advice works.
Good luck.

@PollyRoulson

We must have met then if you are a vet for the assistant dog charities You work all over the UK? You are not in one practice?

Habititation is on the socialisation plan of assistant dogs from the age of 6 weeks (and has been since 1994 ish) - again surprised by what you have accounted

You have misinterpreted my post but heyho.

Yes like I said I don't know what you mean by the dogs you work with entering a fear stage at 8 weeks and this justifying your preference for early removal. I guess if you aren't willing to explain I'll continue to be confused

I don't work for an assistance dog charity. There are assistance dogs of various types owned by members of the public all over the UK who bring them into veterinary practices for treatment. That's where vets interact with them, a lot of them (not all) are problematic in that context.