Exhausted and feeling a bit lost re dog

[SunnyUpNorth]

I’ve posted on here before I think about our dog. He is a 19 month old cocker spaniel.

He suffered a lot with separation anxiety which we have managed to work on during lockdown and he is now much better with that. He is however still very clingy to me when I’m around. We had been referred to a behaviourist who we have worked with since March. I haven’t needed an appointment with her for a couple of months but have dropped her a line yesterday and waiting to hear back.

He has always slept in our kitchen, initially in a crate but he ended up hating that so we abandoned the crate and generally is very good at going to bed. He has always been an early waker. He got a bit better but it’s generally around 6.30 he is up. Not helped by next door being super early risers and putting loads of lights on first thing. There is no way to put blinds up in that room. We have also had some trouble on and off with him over the last few months with accidents at night, so for that reason I’m reluctant to try him in the living room at night as it would be harder to clear up.

I’ve discussed the accidents with the behaviourist and we think it might be a scent marking thing rather than genuine accidents. He hasn’t been neutered yet due to his slight nervousness and the separation anxiety issues.

Have been feeling so tired recently with the relentless early rising. Sometimes he wakes earlier and I let him out and put him back to bed for an hour but I rarely fall back to sleep. DH has trouble sleeping sometimes in general as he has a very stressful job, so although he would get up at the weekend with the dog it usually turns out that I’m woken by the dog, DH is fast asleep so I just get up as I know I probably wouldn’t get back to sleep.

Sorry for long post, just trying to give a bit of background and context.

Anyway, on Friday he was sick on the carpet and had a runny tummy so decided to let him sleep in our room for the night so I could keep an eye on him. All was fine. Then Saturday night I put him to bed as usual and he cried and scratched at the door, eventually at 1am I was soooo tired and desperate to sleep that I let him upstairs again. Sunday night he was the same but I didn’t want to form a habit of him coming upstairs so eventually at around 3am I came down and made a cup of tea and then slept on the couch and he was on the floor next to it. Last night he did the same but I ignored it all night and barely slept.

I know everyone will say just let him sleep in our room, but we do not want him sleeping in our room. Please don’t comment if that’s the comment as neither of us want him there so we need help with other solutions.

I know I have made a problem by letting him up in the first place but if anyone has any advice on how to help undo this and get him to settle in the kitchen again that would be great.

It’s a big room, it’s warm enough I think, he has a few places to sleep scattered around.

He has always been brilliant at bedtime....as soon as I get up, turn the tv off etc he knows it’s bedtime. He goes out to the toilet and then jumps on his bed for his biscuit. But for about a month now he hasn’t been doing that and will try and run out the kitchen door or refuse to come back in from the garden. However he still settles down to sleep immediately when we leave him and doesn’t make a sound til morning.

We did hire a hot tub this weekend for my daughters birthday and thought maybe the droning noise from that might have been affecting him but it went yesterday and he was still unsettled last night.

I’m so tired I just want to cry. He is so clingy to me that it feels relentless. That’s one of the reasons I don’t want him in our room as I just need a break from him sometimes. We are also having problems with his anal glands (have wondered if discomfort could be linked to his new bedtime unsettledness) so he is often smelly and I would like a break from that while I sleep!

Hello OP. I dont let my dog sleep in my bedroom either, he sleeps in the kitchen. There was once or twice i did have him in my room, and like yours, he cried the next night. I had to ignore the crying for one or two nights but after that he was fine. I think it can confuse them alot if one minute they are allowed upstairs, and the next they aren't. So it's best to be consistent. I know this may not work for you but have you considered getting another dog to keep him company? It sounds like your dog really loves company, he may settle much better if he has another dog to sleep with

Thanks for the reply and for being understanding. My thinking was that we need to stick it out and not give in, I just didn’t think it would take many nights as he has always been fine in the kitchen.

I was reassured by the first half of your post and horrified by the second half 😂
He does indeed love company, but I don’t actually know how he would take to another resident dog as he is quite territorial of me. Apart from his anxiety issues he is a little sweetie and a gorgeous dog. He is quite high maintenance in terms of grooming as he is has pretty much a full show coat - not sure I would have the energy to tend to two!

We made a similar mistake with our ddog! Having heard all the horror stories (and being young and not knowing any better!) We let him in our room on bonfire night so he wouldn't be scared listening to the fireworks. Turned out he wasn't the least bothered by fireworks but he LOVED being allowed in our room. We had a tiny flat then so our bedroom was straight off the kitchen where he slept. It took a week of no sleep at all (Us!) for him to get the message that it wasn't going to be a permanent switch and we never made that mistake again! I think you just need to ignore him and he'll figure it out.

Short term pain for long term gain. You will have to ignore the crying/whining.

Hopefully you can get more sleep very soon🤞

Do not get another dog to help this dog - you may end up with two dogs that need extra attention!

I would wait to hear back from your behaviourist as they know the full history but a few things to consider.

Yes anal glands (apparently) can be very painful - in behaviour work you will be amazed that just getting them sorted can make a load of behavours disappear. Have you seen a vet? Anal glands should not be smelling regularly so I would check this out with the vet.

Can you cover the crate so the crate is dark even if the room is light.

I hope your behavriourist can help with ideas to get the dog back into the kitchen - without knowing the situation/history I would possible set up a bed in the kitchen for you and then over nights move further away from the dog until you got back to you own bed. If separation anxiety has been an issue I would not let them cry it out as you coiuld undo all the good work you have done so far.

Hope you can get a good night sleep tonight - can you bag an early night? lack of sleep is hard hard work

Thanks @whoami24601 , yes we won’t be making that mistake again. A week??? They really are so persistent aren’t they.

My husband has a high conference presentation on Thursday and really, really needs to try and get some sleep so we are thinking we might bring him to the couple who look after him when we are away for a couple of nights. They have three dogs of their own and run him ragged so he loves it and is exhausted when he comes home. They have all their dogs sleep in their room including ours when he is there, so he would at least have a couple of nights comfort and might reset him for when he comes home.

I’m tempted to try him in the living room too as it’s darker and warmer as we have a fire in the evening and some heat would be given out from that for a while after we go to bed. But with the scent marking issues we have been having I’d be worried he would wee all over the Christmas tree. Also he is so clingy to me that if I tried to go to bed before my DH and left him in the living room with him I think he would be v unsettled. He’s a little bugger!

Can you build a pen around his bed and cover it over so he has a den?

@PollyRoulson he isn’t in a crate anymore. His separation anxiety was partly related to containment anxiety so we stopped using the crate during the day. He eventually ended up getting really distressed in it at night so he now just sleeps in the kitchen with the door shut.

Don’t want to undo any hard work so shall see what the behaviourist says re letting him cry it out at night.

I feel like a new mum who knows they’re making mistakes but am too tired to try and fix!

@PollyRoulson oh and don’t worry, there is NO chance of a second dog!!

@Frenchfancy that’s not a bad idea, thank you. Does the own tend to need to be secured to something so they can’t push it around? Thanks for this, could help in a few ways, I hadn’t thought of that.

Is it definitely warm enough for him in the kitchen? Don't know where you are but we've had a real cold snap here. Ours is up at the crack of dawn when it's cold (well he was when he slept downstairs, he's in with us now which is another story and not something you want!)

(I mean I know it should be warm enough, they're dogs with fur coats who should be able to sleep outside really but ours is definitely a bit precious about temperature 😄)

Could you try him sleeping somewhere else? Our dog will sleep pretty much anywhere other than the kitchen and our bedroom, she has a bed outside our bedroom door on the landing and she sleeps really well out there as she’s close enough to us that she feels safe, but we have our privacy and don’t have to share our bed with a dog.

There’s a clear solution, but you said not to suggest it... So based on that, I would agree with a PP about a pen around his bed. Also, a higher value reward for his pen, compared to a biscuit, and something that will distract him for longer. Ie kong etc

Please don't leave him to cry you will likely make his anxiety worse. Can you go back to basics and sleep with him for a few nights? Rather than him coming in with you if you really don't want him in the bedroom. Just a thought but you excluding him from the bedroom could be making his anxiety worse. Try Facebook group dog training advice and support.

This is really difficult as unfortunately you've let him in bed with you when he cries, so now he thinks all he has to do is cry/whine/bark to get into your bed. For a dog with separation anxiety this is a huge step back.

I agree with PP who said not to leave him to cry. This isn't a young puppy learning to sleep alone, this is an older dog who has already shown to have separation anxiety. Leaving him alone and frightened isn't the right way to go about fixing it, imo.

I would either have him sleep upstairs and slowly move him downstairs to the kitchen, or sleep downstairs and over time, move back upstairs once he starts to settle alone. Or bring his bed upstairs and have him on the landing so he can still hear/see/smell you.

I also meant to say, I suspect his accidents are because he's anxious. Toileting indoors is a very common sign of separation anxiety.

Have you got a spare bedroom or a child that would have him in with them . Our dog comes to bed with me ( I watch TV ) at 10ish and then I carry him into his bedroom anytime after midnight , cover him up and he doesn’t stir until he hears the alarm in the morning . When ds is home he has to share the bed ( double so big enough) but he’s happy to sleep alone . I generally keep a fleece over the bed so he’s not on the duvet and it’s quick to wash regularly and he has another blanket over him .

Sometimes being alone in a big room can make dogs nervous. Could you put his bed under a table to make him feel more secure?

You could also try leaving a worn item of clothing in his bed so he has your scent to comfort him

Hi OP, I have a 19 month cockapoo who had very similar issues to yours by the sound of it, although ours was triggered by lockdown and us being at home all day - it got to the point where in the end me and my husband would take it in turns to sleep on the sofa from about 2am to calm him down (our bedroom is our cats zone so him sleeping in with us wasn't an option). We ended up contacting our vets who were very helpful and gave us lots of ideas. We used the plug in Adaptil initially, and started to leave him every day, just for a small amount of time to get him used to us not always being there. Overnight when he barked we still went downstairs to let him out but did not give him attention (he had accidents back then so we felt we had to let him out just in case he needed the toilet), which made me feel awful but we found it was much longer between barks and cries, we also leave Classic FM on low for him and leave one of our socks with him for comfort. We also had him neutered in October which seems to have helped as now he is far less territorial. It's taken a good few months but now we have no accidents, no adaptil on and a good 7 hours sleep at night without any barking and he seems much happier and far less anxious now - we still leave the radio on for him at night with a sock and that seems to be working.
I'm not sure if any of that is any help but I wanted to reply as I have been there with those sleepless nights and know how exhausting it is!

Aaaaagh just wrote a really long reply and then accidentally pressed the back button and lost it all!

Thanks all for your replies. He has really come such a long way over the last few months so this feels such a setback.

He is currently snuggled up with dd and I’m on a different couch. He would never have chosen to be with someone else a few months ago. I’ve just been making dinner and doing some jobs and he stayed cuddled up between the kids when he would normally be following me around.

I managed to get a pen today and I have a new bed I had got him for Christmas which he can have early. It’s really snuggly with high sides for him to nestle into. I’ve been randomly dropping treats into it all day. I’m a bit concerned about the pen in that it’s a new environment when he is already unsettled and also has he has had issues with containment in the past. But if he doesn’t settle tonight I might try and sleep next to him for a few nights. Although I gave away our spare mattress a few months ago so no idea what I would sleep on!

@vanillandhoney We took him up on Friday as he was unwell. He wasn’t crying to be brought up, we made the decision before we went to bed so we could keep an eye on him. The next night we did relent but it’s hard to keep your resolve at 1am and it was my dd’s birthday the next day and I needed a bit of sleep so could have some energy to make her birthday nice.

@BellaBellini sorry to hear you’ve had problems. We tried the plug in and nutracalm calm but it didn’t do anything noticeable. We tried the radio too but again didn’t notice much difference either way so gave up on that, but I might try it again.

He sleeps in our kitchen dining room with the utility off it. He has a doughnut fluffy bed, a faux fur rug thing under an armchair that he likes to snuggle under, a large piece of vet bed near the kitchen end that he sometimes sleeps on when I cook and a blanket under all the coats in the utility that he likes to hide under. No idea which he spends most time on during the night but he has got lots of options.

@Bytheriograndehe generally seems to be a very warm dog. I have considered if he could be too cold but he usually opts to sleep on the hard floor in the evening in I presume an attempt to keep cool. He’s an odd little boy!

@Floralnomad we have a spare room but it’s up in the attic. I don’t know if he would stay up there by himself. What do you do when you have guests to stay then? My son would love to have him in with him but again I don’t think he would stay and I thought it wasn’t recommended to have dogs in with children incase they bite in their sleep etc?

Really hoping this is just a blip as we have come so far with him. So many people have commented on how much calmer he is recently.

@bellabellini it’s interesting they neutering helped yours. I know they say the lack of testosterone can make them more anxious in some ways but I’ve also heard it can help them relax more too. I am thinking of trying the implant on him first.

@Milkshake7489 thanks, I think I will leave my dressing gown with him tonight.

@SunnyUpNorth we have another actual spare room for guests , the dog originally slept with ds before he moved out and for the odd night we don’t mind dog staying with us . He slept with us for 3 weeks recently as he had a poorly tail and my husband didn’t want him to wear a cone / collar and it was the only way to make sure he didn’t chew it overnight . We have a kingsize bed though so it’s not too bad . Could he have a bed in your sons room that might work .

We took him up on Friday as he was unwell. He wasn’t crying to be brought up, we made the decision before we went to bed so we could keep an eye on him. The next night we did relent but it’s hard to keep your resolve at 1am and it was my dd’s birthday the next day and I needed a bit of sleep so could have some energy to make her birthday nice.

Unfortunately, the dog won't know the difference between you doing it because he's unwell, and you doing it on a normal night. All he sees in his mind is "mum and dad let me in the bed and it's awesome - I want it to happen again!" Then, he cried and you relented, so he now thinks all he has to do to get in the bed is cry.

It's not a criticism of you - it's awful when you can't sleep and it's 1am and they won't be quiet! But in his mind he's just using logic. Crying = I get in the bed. I want to be in the bed so I'll cry.

We didn’t let him on the bed! He slept on the hard floor next to my dressing gown. But yes I get your point. I was walking him with a friend this afternoon and we were saying how annoying it is that it can take months and months to get them to do something you want them to do, then you make one mistake and they latch onto it straight away!!