Exhausted and feeling a bit lost re dog

[SunnyUpNorth]

I’ve posted on here before I think about our dog. He is a 19 month old cocker spaniel.

He suffered a lot with separation anxiety which we have managed to work on during lockdown and he is now much better with that. He is however still very clingy to me when I’m around. We had been referred to a behaviourist who we have worked with since March. I haven’t needed an appointment with her for a couple of months but have dropped her a line yesterday and waiting to hear back.

He has always slept in our kitchen, initially in a crate but he ended up hating that so we abandoned the crate and generally is very good at going to bed. He has always been an early waker. He got a bit better but it’s generally around 6.30 he is up. Not helped by next door being super early risers and putting loads of lights on first thing. There is no way to put blinds up in that room. We have also had some trouble on and off with him over the last few months with accidents at night, so for that reason I’m reluctant to try him in the living room at night as it would be harder to clear up.

I’ve discussed the accidents with the behaviourist and we think it might be a scent marking thing rather than genuine accidents. He hasn’t been neutered yet due to his slight nervousness and the separation anxiety issues.

Have been feeling so tired recently with the relentless early rising. Sometimes he wakes earlier and I let him out and put him back to bed for an hour but I rarely fall back to sleep. DH has trouble sleeping sometimes in general as he has a very stressful job, so although he would get up at the weekend with the dog it usually turns out that I’m woken by the dog, DH is fast asleep so I just get up as I know I probably wouldn’t get back to sleep.

Sorry for long post, just trying to give a bit of background and context.

Anyway, on Friday he was sick on the carpet and had a runny tummy so decided to let him sleep in our room for the night so I could keep an eye on him. All was fine. Then Saturday night I put him to bed as usual and he cried and scratched at the door, eventually at 1am I was soooo tired and desperate to sleep that I let him upstairs again. Sunday night he was the same but I didn’t want to form a habit of him coming upstairs so eventually at around 3am I came down and made a cup of tea and then slept on the couch and he was on the floor next to it. Last night he did the same but I ignored it all night and barely slept.

I know everyone will say just let him sleep in our room, but we do not want him sleeping in our room. Please don’t comment if that’s the comment as neither of us want him there so we need help with other solutions.

I know I have made a problem by letting him up in the first place but if anyone has any advice on how to help undo this and get him to settle in the kitchen again that would be great.

It’s a big room, it’s warm enough I think, he has a few places to sleep scattered around.

He has always been brilliant at bedtime....as soon as I get up, turn the tv off etc he knows it’s bedtime. He goes out to the toilet and then jumps on his bed for his biscuit. But for about a month now he hasn’t been doing that and will try and run out the kitchen door or refuse to come back in from the garden. However he still settles down to sleep immediately when we leave him and doesn’t make a sound til morning.

We did hire a hot tub this weekend for my daughters birthday and thought maybe the droning noise from that might have been affecting him but it went yesterday and he was still unsettled last night.

I’m so tired I just want to cry. He is so clingy to me that it feels relentless. That’s one of the reasons I don’t want him in our room as I just need a break from him sometimes. We are also having problems with his anal glands (have wondered if discomfort could be linked to his new bedtime unsettledness) so he is often smelly and I would like a break from that while I sleep!

@SunnyUpNorth

We didn’t let him on the bed! He slept on the hard floor next to my dressing gown. But yes I get your point. I was walking him with a friend this afternoon and we were saying how annoying it is that it can take months and months to get them to do something you want them to do, then you make one mistake and they latch onto it straight away!!

Ah, my bad.

But yeah, it is frustrating! You can do everything right for ages but they know your weak spots

@Floralnomad my son does have a double bed but I just don’t know how it would work. Do we just shove him in when we go to bed and hope for the best?!! I think it would disturb my son. It’s one of those unknowns that feels risky to try at bedtime especially when it could involve waking my son too!

Also had an early riser here, it was awful, I looked for help so many times and nothing worked (a million suggestions to take him into our bed which like you we didn't want).

A trip to my inlaws for a holiday stay seemed to do the trick a few months ago, prehaps combined with the darker mornings and the huge pile of blankets hes buried under. So your suggestion of a reset could be a good one, they get so attached to certain habits.
Good luck

I didn't realise that was particularly early for dogs to wake as most of my neighbours are out walking their dogs at that time before work. I suppose it depends on when he gets out for a last wee.
I do sympathise though as I had an early waking child but that was more like 5-6am. Thought I'd won the lottery when he started sleeping in till 6.30am

Are you happy with your behaviourist? Are they a qualified clinical behaviorist? Vet recommended and registered with the appropriate bodies? I only ask as the title is not protected and can be used by anyone. I hate seeing people throwing good money after bad in these situations.
Regarding the weeing have you tried a dap diffuser or pet remedy plug in? It might be scent marking or it might be stress but the diffuser appeasing pheromones can really help reduce stress in dogs.
You can always try chemical castration prior to surgical to see the effects, which will be temporary in the case of the injections.

@WildWindBlows yes the behaviourists are amazing. We were referred to them via our vets and they are very highly rated. Typically we had to wait ages for an appt which then didn’t happen due to lockdown, but we did everything by zoom call in the end and they have been so helpful. But it’s not an exact science.

We tried the adaptil diffuser months ago for the SA but never felt like it had any noticeable effect. Could try it again.

Yes I know the implant is temporary, hence we could see if it had a overall positive effect on him before committing.

My son went through a 5.30 wake up phase when he was younger and it was hell. Both my children now sleep really late, and the number of times of been sat on the couch on a Saturday morning at 5.30/6 with the dog whilst the kids sleep til 9/10ish. I finally have my kids sleeping in and we get a dog!

Re the early waking time, I think some people get their dogs up and out to walk them before work rather than the dog waking early. I was told that a dog gets used to your habits and will end up working around you. That didn’t quite work out as I hoped!

When he was in a crate was it covered? Mine cried and hated the crate when he could see out but as soon as we covered it (leaving just the front open) he stopped immediately!

Now he goes in if his own accord when he wants to chill out.

Also is his bed on a hard floor? We bought a second crate that has legs do that it's raised up and supposed to be warmer for them

Our dog was in a covered crate from birth so knows little difference, we kept the routines the breeder kept with a few adaptations over several months.
Some are more clingy than others, she sits on you or next to you at night when watching TV but as soon as you say Bed off she goes with no issues.
Have you spoken with the breeder? I suspect the tail is wagging the dog, I feel you need to get back to basics, but is the breed normally like this?
We have strict feeding always from the bowl in the same place every morning. Never our food
One set of commands we all use.
Only treats when good etc.

To be honest 6.30 is a normal time for a dog to wake. Our cats are up just after 5. It’s a bit like with children.

You seem very stressed and he’s probably picking up on the anxiety. With pets and kids you all cope better if you just go with the flow. I had a cocker and she was lovely but they are quite clingy. All dogs are in my experience. They become very bonded to their people and that is also what makes them lovely to own.

I’ve always let the dogs sleep in my room, you all sleep better and longer. They often need company to feel secure. I shut the cats in the dining room though as they are prone to mad half hours at 3am. Some people can’t bear to have the dog on their room as they are prone to getting on the bed so they leave their bed outside the door on the landing, and that seems to work ok.

I feel your pain. We rehomed our Sprocker as due to family disruption and then the lockdown and things opening back up led to him having major separation issues. His previous owner a DF had another dog so when he came to us he was clingy but manageable during the day but at nights was awful just crying unless one of slept downstairs. This was never going to be a longterm solution for us so I invested in a crate which is next to our bed and we've had no issues since. I know this wasn't the answer you were looking for but it's helped us all to get some decent sleep and his separation anxiety is so much better now as it's also eased his clinginess during the day.

He never really took to the crate. He would go in it during the day if the door was open but it wasn’t his preferred place to be. He ended up becoming quite agitated in it so we eventually got rid. It was covered on all sides except the narrow end with the door.

His various bed areas are all on the floor but the main one he uses is quite thick and has a blanket on top too. The new one I got him yesterday is thick and soft but has higher sides for him to snuggle into.

I’m happy with the 6.30 wake up time and have got used to getting up then having more time to get ready in the morning, have a cup of tea and read for a while before everyone gets up etc. However he usually makes noise before then I don’t get back to sleep and after months and months of never quite getting enough sleep or a chance to catch up on my sleep I’m generally constantly tired. We need to be stricter about going to be earlier but we are at that stage where our kids are going to bed by around 9ish, so DH and I probably have an hour or so to actually watch tv or read etc then, and by the time we get to bed and fall asleep it’s always past 11. I really need 8 hours sleep but probably get 6-7. It’s not awful but it’s not brilliant either.

So anyway, to update, I managed to speak to someone at the behaviourists practise today. Last night I put him in the new pen ( with my duvet cover as I was changing the sheets), a blanket, his new bed and various treats. When I was brushing my teeth I heard him so I went down and firmly told him to be quiet and go to sleep. Went to bed and we remembered I had bought some earplugs recently for my son so decided to give them a try. Fell asleep and didn’t wake til 6! I don’t know if that was a great idea or not and I have no idea what he did last night but we both really needed that sleep. He was completely fine and his normal self when I went down.

@IHeartNiles I probably do sound stressed about it at the moment. It’s because I’m frustrated as I feel we have put quite a lot of work into him and he has been doing great. This feels like a big set back after progress and also I was exhausted after pretty much no/not enough sleep for 4 nights. However I’m generally very calm and he is surprisingly a very calm dog! When the behaviourist originally visited in March she couldn’t believe how chilled out he is. Also anytime he does get upset about something he recovers straight it away, ie if I was out and he was barking the second I came home he would just be normal - play, sleep etc not be upset for a while and not settle etc.

Anyway her advice was to try and acknowledge but not reinforce his behaviour.

I have actually just realised the time, I need to go out but don’t want to lose what I’ve written so will post this and carry on later!

So......her advice incase anyone is interested for the future was based on his history she didn’t think I should leave him to cry it out.

She said every time (yes every time!) I hear him I should go down and stay with him til he settles. She said if I think he needs the loo I could let him out without engaging at all. I don’t think he does need the loo at night as he doesn’t drink much in the evenings and has a wee before bed etc, so she said in that case I could leave him in the pen and just maybe sit in the dark near him or on my phone etc til he calms. She said if needs be I could say some calming things or talk quietly to myself, or walk past the pen so he can smell me, drop the odd treat in etc. But she said not to stroke him or let him get up on my lap etc.
Once calm I leave the room and repeat when it happens again. It’s going back to puppy basics really. He is reminded I’m nearby and he is safe but that he won’t really gain anything by playing up.

She also suggested the radio on low, something smelling of me and during the day working on him doing a sit-stay in his bed while I open the door and leave the room so we build back up to me being able to do that at bedtime. So I could leave the pen open and he has the option of where to sleep.

She didn’t seem overly concerned by the night weeing (he hasn’t done it at all the last few nights even when distressed)and being in the pen might help with that or break the habit. I think it’s quite common in adolescent males and when I’ve spoken to them about it before they’ve felt it’s more scent marking than anxiety.

DH has a big work thing on tomorrow so we have agreed he will sleep in our attic spare room with the earplugs in and I’ll do night duty with the dog and see how it goes. We have also been on two huge long walks today so he is exhausted now too.

Fingers crossed!

Thanks for the advice all.

How did you get on last night OP?

Mixed! He went to bed absolutely fine, had his treats and snuggled down into his new bed.

I woke up to him whimpering at around 3.20. I went down and just sat on a chair near the pen, shushed him and reassured him softly without actually going over. He settled down pretty quickly. I waited around 5 minutes, then left. He immediately started crying again so I went back in (hadn’t even gone up the stairs) and sat down again. This went on for about 40 minutes. Eventually I went back in but stood by the door and said ‘quiet, go to sleep’ and he stopped. I went back to bed. DH went to the loo a few minutes after I went back to bed and then I heard him again, but I waited a minute and he went quiet. I def heard him at some point again in the night but I think he must have just made a bit of a sound rather than gone on and on as I didn’t get up and don’t remember being disturbed for long. He has however managed to escape when I went down this morning!! I bought the pen off a local selling page and one of the corner attachments is cracked and can be pulled slightly apart, so he had squeezed through I think. I don’t think he would have been able to leap over.

I’ll try and fix that for this evening. I had also left the radio on and have been scattering treats in that area today. I know the temp has dropped but interestingly it felt a lot colder when I went back up to my room than it had been in the kitchen.

Fingers crossed for tonight.