Feel like we failed as owners

[Lisa78Lemon]

When deciding which family dog to get a few years ago we thought long & hard about it. We opted for a Cavapoo due to our young DC and found a reputable breeder.
We tried hard to socialise (puppy parties) and train Teddy (Dogs Trust classes), exercised him often, played games, gave him food puzzles, interactive toys, lots of love etc etc
He was also crate trained from day one & we worked hard to keep a good routine.
From the start he was always quite 'loopy'. He would have 'zoomy' attacks that lasted hours, nipped us hard and often, chewed the furniture non stop etc.
He was always on edge and was very nervous around people, even though we kept trying to socialise him and ensure the interactions were positive.
We even got a behaviourist who gave some advice but no major changes to what we were already doing.
At 5 months he snapped at my DH when he put his hand near his food bowl. He then became possessive over objects and chews. This came on quite suddenly.
With DC, this was not acceptable so we got the behaviourist in again, consulted the vet and he was put on anxiety medication (fluoxetine) and a new training programme.We don't punish and use positive, reward based training.
He improved a little but recently (he is now 2) the behaviour has really escalated.
He is just so nervous and never settles down.
He can be loving one minute and then bites your hand the next.
At this stage, for the sake of the DC, we think he needs to be rehomed to someone with no children and experience of anxious dogs.
Its heartbreaking as he is part of our family and we expected to have him so much longer.
We are finding it hard to deal with.

Is there such a thing as a 'bad' dog?
Have we done something wrong along the way without realising?
Has anyone else been in this position?

I keep wondering what we could have done differently and feel bad for Teddy and the DC.

I agree with everyone else - rehome, it is best for your dog as well as your family.

I know of a dog through the rescue we adopted with that couldn't cope with family life at all - went to an experienced foster home, and couldn't cope there. He was on the verge of being PTS, but a couple with a small holding came forward and have taken him. Plenty of space, no children, no strangers. He has been happy there for 2-3 years, and his owners enjoy him on his terms and haven't had any aggression.

Don't beat yourself up, once you have tried everything you have tried everything. The next step is to change your dog's environment to meet his needs, and you can't provide that environment.

Another one here who has been in a similar position.

After hours and hours of talking to behaviourists I strongly believe a lot of behaviour traits are genetic.

Being honest, most poo breeders are not breeding to better the breed because it isn’t a breed. If one or both of the parents were nervous or the bitch suffered stress in the pregnancy it could lead to behaviour like this. The first 8 weeks of being with the breeder also shape the puppy so much that’s why it’s so important to know what your buying.

Sometimes though some dogs are just not right for family life.

This is what was being discussed on another thread yesterday. Poor breeding will produce dogs that have huge "issues"I would get back in touch with the behavourist and vet to help you with the next move. They can give professional and qualified advice.

If you have a serious resource guarder rehoming the future can look bleak. I doubt that the Dogs Trust will take a dog with major issues unfortunately although other rescues may.

I am really sorry you are having to go through this. You are not to blame for the dogs behaviour this will have been created by the breeder.

Could you look at a local breed rescue in your area instead? They will tend to have a better idea and waiting list of people

I am sorry it hasn’t worked out however I do think this is more from owner inexperience and family life more than anything. You can take puppies to all the classes in the world but a majority of the training needs to be done at home, sorry OP. I have had cavaliers my whole life and they are lovely little dogs but need firm training from being pups. However the poodle side can have a nasty side as well, especially with young children in the house.

I hope Teddy moves onto a lovely home

Exactly what PollyPoulson said.

A 'bad' dog is very, very unusual. Badly bred dogs are incredibly common. A dog that has always been nervous has come from a background that caused it, and by the time you have the puppy it is too late to undo the damage.

As pps have said,I would want to rule out out syringomyelia.

Dogs Trust are unlikely to help as they don't normally take dogs with a bite history. A cavalier rescue will be a better prospect- they will have seen this scenario many times over.

The research is clear that dogs who come from commercial backyard breeders have poorer health and behavioural outcomes.

Crossbreeds like cavapoos simply aren't bred responsibly - they're bred for profit, and often exhibit anxiety problems. There's no such thing as a responsible breeder of these types of dog.

Did you see both parents @Lisa78Lemon ? What was the breeding setup? It's surprising that a responsible breeder was keen to place a pup in a house with such young children and where there's so much change occurring.

It's great you've got behavioural advice but how have you changed your lifestyle? Does your pup have a safe haven and quiet time? Regular exercise? Why does your child have access to his food bowl? That's an absolute no-no

Research also shows that many dog owners spend more time researching their new shoes than their new dog. It's frustrating because good information is out there, there are puppy contracts, advice from RSPCA, veterinary associations and the charities like dogs trust who end up mopping up the mess made by poor choices because someone wants a cute puppy.

You made some big mistakes in terms of buying a puppy from a puppy farm type situation and having a young dog with a small baby/child.

Rehome through a rescue.

Yes very rarely a puppy can be 'bad' but imagine your home setup and lack of time and attention has contributed more to the problem than you would like to admit.

If the dog can't be rehomed through a rescue (pref a specialist one) please don't be tempted to sell him privately - you don't get the best people coming forward and the dog will be bounced from bad home to bad home

Unfortunately like a PP said, this is the problem with backyard breeders and puppy farms. Lack of health and genetic testing results in poorly bred puppies who have often had little or no socialisation before going to their new homes. Aggression, anxiety, resource guarding and health issues are rife in these dogs - because they're not a breed, "breeders" can essentially do what they want.

Were the dogs health tested? Did the parents have eye checks, hip and elbow scores? Cavaliers should be checked for cardiomyopathy as well, though I'm not sure what specific tests are needed for poodles. Both parents should also be of solid temperament and shouldn't have issues with resource guarding, anxiety or aggression. The dam and sire should be well matched to compliment each other and to produce puppies of excellent health and temperament.

I think as you have a small child, you need to rehome via a rescue. A good breeder will take a puppy back but I suspect yours won't be interested.

She’s 5.5, so I am over-feeding her to slow her down.

I can't believe anyone would recommend making a dog overweight to slow them down.

I recommend a thunder vest for anxious dogs - not just during a thunderstorm. If the dog is going through an anxious time they really help. It is a bit like swaddling.

My labrador is a sweet gentle thing, but she doesn’t like loads of visitors - she doesn’t bite or bark, just very unhappy. The thunder vest chills her out so well and she falls asleep.

You have messed up. You’ve bought a badly bred cross breed. Neutered too early. Relied on puppy parties (rarely a good idea) to socialise and a few puppy classes to train.
Sounds like you need to work closely with a really good trainer.

We have a cockapoo like this. It’s really hard. My DC are teens so we are keeping him because the DC are old enough to modify their behaviours, I don’t think think we could have kept him with a toddler. He’s just very unpredictable - he gives no warning signs, he goes straight to bite.

We’ve discovered that he is hugely anxious about just about anything. We are constantly working with positive reinforcement to improve his confidence with the unknown. He also resource guards (Including resource guarding me) so it’s a case of always remembering to distract him with a high value treat if we need to take something from him.

Don’t beat yourself up. Your dog might thrive in an adult household with more structure.

A few points from other posts.

A trainer can not sort out resource guarding - even some behavourists will turn down these cases if not experienced enough . You do need a behaviourist as you have done OP. This dog is already on medication so a quick swop with food with literally have no impact but may case bites and increased aggression. The OP has a serious case on her hands that needs experienced qualified advice.

The view is changing dramatically with regards to Thunder shirts so again only use with qualified advice. There have been a lot of studies that show Thunder shirts actually cause the dog to shut down. The owner reads the quiet dog as "cured" but actually thunder shirts can cause a huge emotional stress on many dogs.

Is there such a thing as a "bad" dog

Yes, unfortunately. It is rare, but it happens. Many years ago I had a Border Collie. Got him as a pup. I'm a very experienced Border Collie owner. Training didn't take. Medication didn't take. Nothing "took". It was heartbreaking - but at 18 months I knew that I had tried everything, and the day that he attempted to attack me because I was coming into "his" house was the day that I made the appointment to have him put down. He was a danger to anyone, and not suitable for rehoming. It hurt me to do it, but I knew it was the right decision - and one the vet had already suggested previously.

Some humans are just "born wrong". So are some dogs. It's a rarity, but it happens often enough to be noticed. You know yourselves what you've tried, and it hasn't worked. It is not your fault.

@PollyRoulson that’s really interesting about the thundershirts. I’ve never used them but I’ve heard people recommend them.

It’s actually now an irrelevance whether the dog was born defective or whether what the OP ( and family) have done has made it defective the fact is this dog is no longer suitable to be in this household so rehoming is the best answer . Hopefully a spaniel rescue would be able to find it somewhere with adults / older teens who have more experience and can help manage and sort out its issues .

In answer to some of the questions:

We visited mum and pups at 3 weeks old as wanted to make fully sure it wasn't a puppy farm puppy. Seemed a good set up with 3 children and 2 family dogs. Mum was a calm and lovely Cavalier.
Dad was a stud who we didn't see.
Both parents KC registered with all relevant paperwork. However, mum was too young to be cleared for MVD due to her age (I may be wrong as it was a few years ago but I think she would have had to have been over 5 to be cleared). No murmur was found at her previous health check so we were happy enough with that.

Re Syringomyelia, mum was clear on screening and he shows none of the associated signs- certainly no ear / neck scratching.

All of his episodes can be linked to something e.g. being possessive over a chew or being petted when he doesn't want to be, so I'm not convinced it is 'spaniel rage'. It's not an unexplained switch.

The commenter who said DS shouldn't allowed near his food bowl, he isn't. It was DH who was near the food bowl (he was actually adding some more chicken to it; didn't do that again!).

For the comment on 'bad timing' with a baby, I couldn't agree more! Looking back, we were naive and didn't quite grasp just how difficult this dynamic would be. That's on us.

Thanks for the advice on rehoming centres as it's looking like Dogs Trust won't take him. Will have to do some research on good places near us.

I think you would struggle to rehome a dog like this TBH. It’s not always that easy to find someone with the necessary experience to take on a dog with such issues.

Also for those who have shared their experiences with difficult dogs: Thank you.
It sounds silly but knowing we are not the only ones is somehow comforting.
Both DH and I have had lovely dogs growing up so have felt awful about this whole situation.

@thereinmadnesslies That's exactly it actually, the complete lack of warning. I think that is what makes him extra difficult. If it were just DH and I (or older kids as in your case), we wouldn't be rehoming.

We brought him to a groomer that specialised in anxious dogs and she said he was genuinely one of the worst cases she had ever seen because he bit her with zero warning. She said she very rarely gets bit.

@Lisa78Lemon I don’t know if it’s in your area but there’s a rescue called Pupcakes Rescue in Lincolnshire. They specialise in poodle cross type dogs who are being rehomed for similar behaviour. They find suitable homes for this sort of dog.

I can think of some owners who have failed their dogs, miserably so. However, from what you've said you've done everything you realistically can for this dog, and it is in everyone's best interests to responsibly rehome the dog to someone who is experienced and doesn't have young children.

Was it caused by poor breeding? Quite possibly - and dogs that are mentally just wired wrong are relatively rare - but it should also be remembered that when we look at human siblings it's far from uncommon for one sibling to have mental or emotional health issues that the others don't have. I can think of one set of brothers, where one had a distinguished career in the civil service, and one developed schizophrenia for no known reason (i.e. not drug-induced psychosis) and spent most of his life on locked psychiatric wards. Both the same parents and upbringing... very different outcomes. Likewise it's common for a child with autism or mental health problems to have a sibling that is neurotypical. Natural variation happens.

Regardless of how you've come to this point, I don't think you and your family are going to be able to meet this dog's needs, so a new home would likely be a kindness for the dog.

Thank you, I'll have a look

It's very sad but I am glad you've shared your story OP. I know a few cocker/cavpoos and only one has a gentle, quiet nature the others are nervous, exceedingly boisterous and totally deaf to commands once their particular driver is around whether that be other dogs, squirrels, small children etc. I'm thinking of one in particular who's owner is in despair and has genuinely aged in the time she's had him. They're not a dog I would ever have as they are so in demand that often no though is being given to breeding for temperament or trying to breed out problems, it's all about profit. More people need to know about this. I genuinely see a difference between them and the other their breed dogs from reputable breeders that I know. You cannot reach them in the same way as other dogs. I know many people make a success of owning them but they can be terribly hard work and yet people just see walking teddy bears and keep on getting them.

Whose not who's