Dog is now 15 months old and I feel like a complete failure

[rosesinmygarden]

She doesn't listen. She is so naughty!!!!!!! She doesn't seem to give a toss about pleasing anyone except herself....

I am losing patience with her to be honest and I feel like a complete failure. I know if I had more patience or was a better owner she may well be better behaved but I am losing the will to live.

She is our second dog and soooo much harder work than the others.

What sort of walks does she get OP? Sending support it can be very difficult to manage an adolescent dog

You can teach them to settle. I spent ages dropping treats on her bed when older dog settled on it.
Have you tried a different collar or lead? Harness? I use a dogmatic and collar with training lead clipped to both for puppy.
Stealing things? Like what? Keep anything she might steal out of reach. (Puppy is a bugger for socks!)
Maybe a set “nap” time in the crate is a good idea?
Brain games and chewing can help. Puppy is about to get a huge bone in the garden as she’s hyper today!!

@nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut

If she is fear reactive you need to cast yourself in the role of protector and all around boss. So for example she sees another dog and goes bananas and rather than trying to discipline or drag her away and getting into a tug of war where you have to physically overpower her you need to spot the situation coming before it develops and position yourself between her and the other dog. Body block her and keep walking confidently. Keep her lead short but not tight and do not acknowledge the dog or her reaction to it just March right on past pushing her with you.

You want her to feel like whatever she is fearful of is no danger because no way will it get past you. You are boss of her and everything else in her mind.

Thank you - yes I am doing that and it does help.

If she ever feels threatened or worries she instinctively stands or sits behind me or between my feet so I think she does see me in that role.

It's just exhausting is all and I can't always keep all the plates spinning. I guess I have to try my best and keep doing what I am doing.

Hi Op

Meet billypup, exactly the same breed mix, but 1 year older. If you check back on my username for about a year ago, I had 3 recall threads in quite quick succession.

One day I was in a field, doing basic training with her on longline and a lady was there doing gun dog training, her dogs were incredible definitely something to aspire to. She said that one of them were on they transfer list at that age, she also said retrievers don’t mature until around 4.

We still have similar issues, she now only goes off lead in a secure field, attached to a longline. Recently she’s been amazing, until yesterday when she was awful pulling dreadfully on the lead.

My advice would be to stop walking her and start playing with her in different locations. Play focus games, we’ve been doing gun dog training, which is so much better than obedience for her as it works with keeping her focus in the environment that she’s in, dog classes were a waste of time for us, , the environment clinical and the same each week, she was bored, but happy to get training treats.

Also unless it’s secure keep her on a longline, it’s much less stressful.

Try agility as well, both are intelligent breeds and getting her to use her brain will tire her out and really help calm her down.

I also think from what you’ve said you are a little overwhelmed, maybe pick one behaviour to start with and focus on that

You’ve got this she will calm down.

And 💐 for you wishing you all the best for your diagnosis

I also know that I have worked really hard at training her and encouraging the good behaviour with positive reinforcement - unfortunately that isn't a magic wand either.

Ah, the unglamourous side of dog training is that it requires repetition, repetition, repetition. Then sometimes a bit more repetition.

It's unglamourous but true

During these months, much is a walk of faith. Faith that you have laid the right foundations so that good behaviour re-emerges again as she grows more mature.

It feels so futile at this age - as you say, like you are taking one step forwards and then one back. But eventually you will make headway. You really will.

Singing Bon Jovi's Kee the faith is optional - but may help lighten the mood .

One day she will be old and slow and grey and predictable and these will just be funny stories you tell...

@imabusybee

What sort of walks does she get OP? Sending support it can be very difficult to manage an adolescent dog

She gets around 60 minutes a day, spread over 2 walks, most days. Sometimes more than this.

She goes out with our very trusted and lovely dog walker twice a week (she is very experienced and walked our old dog for years).

Occasionally this is on lead but I do try to take her out to somewhere she can have a good run and sniff off lead. She has very good recall when we are somewhere quiet and comes back everytime.

I have noticed she becomes more reactive and less able to respond to me once she has been out for longer than 30 minutes so I do make a note of the time and make sure she is back close to me and on the lead after 30 minutes.

She loves the ball but would just run and run after it until she dropped, so again, this has to be managed carefully.

She does do such naughty things! She's not inherently naughty or nasty, but even with consistent positive reinforcement she persists in doing some really naughty things ... honestly

I think the point PP is trying to get at, is that dogs behave badly for a reason, you just need to figure out what the reason is. Do they get attention for the behaviour? Are they bored? Under-exercised? Over-tired? Do they need the toilet or are they hungry?

I know you see her as being naughty, but there'll be a reason she behaves the way she does. The teenage phase will of course be making her behaviour worse, but dogs generally do things for a reason. You need to find her triggers and go from there.

I found the best thing at that age was a solid routine, plenty of enforced naps/downtime, feeding via a slow feeder or kong to keep him occupied for longer and a good two hours of exercise a day, split into two or three walks.

We cross posted, you’re doing way better than me 😂

You don’t need training classes to train a dog , all the info is online or in books if you don’t know what you are doing.
I disagree. Yes, it's 'all online' but that's not the same as someone watching what you do with your dog and locating the source of the problem. Even experienced trainers will video themselves and look at those videos with other people.

Sometimes you do what the book or video says and it works and you pat yourself on the back. Another time you try and it all goes pear-shaped - because you moved a pace back at the wrong moment, or a passing motorbike broke your dog's concentration but you barely clocked it because you were so busy focusing on doing the right thing yourself.

In your shoes I would find myself a sensible one-to-one trainer. It may be that there is a single issue underlying everything - or just a bad case of teen dog syndrome. I'd also clip a trailing line onto her collar so that I could reel her in when needed, and I'd try and teach a 'settle' command: get her to lie down and be quiet. After a few seconds praise and reward. Keep on doing this, building up the time slowly and starting to do more yourself - look away, look away and check your phone, move away, leave the room.

And keep your successes in front of yourself: don't overlook them.

If it makes you feel any better, OP, my husband bought me a dog for my 40th that had me questioning my sanity! I have had dogs all my life and am a pretty confident dog owner. My husband bought me a dog when rescue centres turned us down because e had children under the age of 12 and two ferrets and I chose a Manchester Terrier, as I had admired the breed for a while. Gold almighty, he was a nightmare! As good as gold in the house and garden but once we were outside, he just did whatever he like and was waaaay too distracted! When hormones kicked in, he became very horny and very aggressive! A big turning point was getting his balls off but he was two before he was anything approaching a gentleman and I still had a nervous twitch. He's a fantastic dog now but still has to be kept on the lead if we are in woodland as he chases prey and we still have to re-inforce basic training every now and then. I used to despair that I would never enjoy a walk with him but now he is a pleasure. It is tedious but the first two years are repetition, as PP have pointed out. You will get there!

This is her. She's had a good bark at the bus going past and a chew on her kong tyre and is now actually settling.

When she's like this I can't believe I ever feel like I did earlier.

@billybagpuss he is gorgeous!

That is interesting about retrievers taking longer to mature!

She loves our dog training classes as they include an element of agility and if I could find somewhere local with agility classes at a time I could go we would be there like a shot.

I could have written your post 3 months ago but I can now see the far side, at 18 months he's suddenly calming down and listening again but boy has it been hell. He is a collie, lab and poodle cross, sweetest dog ever but God did he turn stubborn. You will get there, though there will be times you won't believe it. I found reducing walks and upping brain training helped

Just coming in to say.. mine's the same and I'm struggling. She's 16 m now and until her second season in August she was a pretty easy dog.. friendly to others, a dream at home and other than being a bit boistrous off lead at times, no issue. Post season she seems to have decided she doesn't like other dogs, particularly big ones (she's quite big herself!) and walks have been stressful.
At the moment I am trying to reinforce calm and good behaviours.. walking her away from busy places and only off lead if no dogs are in sight. If we see a dog she is clipped back on and I rapid feed treats. Sometimes if we have to pass another we can do a polite sniff and move on quickly.. other times she barks or does a little growl and I haven't figured out why some dogs she can pass fine and others upset her. And sometimes she looks all eager to meet dogs..then goes growly (I try to keep a good distance at all times but sometimes can't) It's frustrating.. we saw a behaviourist who thinks it may stem from her getting an injury while playing, back in July, but whatever the cause, we are just plodding along trying to keep things as unstressful for her as possible and reinforcing training as we go.
And hoping that it will improve as she gets older!

How much exercise does she get each day? I know you said the dog walker takes her out twice a week and you walk her for 30 minutes but is that just 30 minutes a day or you take her out more than once a day? Does she have a chance to play catch with a ball, running a round a lot off lead?

I'm no expert and I have a Labrador but it's my understanding that border collies are very intelligent dogs and need a lot of mental stimulation, maybe if she's a little bored this is resulting in some of her behaviour?

Sorry I have seen your post to say she gets an hour a day.

Yes, she's incredibly intelligent and also quite a nervous dog. I do think she likes to try to control situations and people's behaviour as part of her personality (not necessarily a bad thing!). Once I had figured this out it helped as I am now careful about my reactions to behaviours. DH is not! She manipulates him as effectively as any person would and he falls into the trap every time! The he gets so angry...

I think I am just overwhelmed. She is an amazing dog and incredibly loyal to us as a family but needs very careful handling and there are times recently when I have just been too exhausted or mentally drained to give her the attention she deserves. We will get through it together and I am sure one day all this will be a distant memory!

Do you give her chews or brain games to focus on?

Raw bones, slow feeders, stuffed kongs, stuffed hooves, yak chews etc. will all keep her busy for while. Mine gets a raw meaty bone 2-3 times a week - it helps to keep his teeth clean and it keeps him really busy. He can chew it for hours at a time!

@vanillandhoney yes, she loves all these things. I had to take her antler away as she threw it so hard that it caused damage though so it has to be things which aren't going to be a danger if she throws them. She has a red kong and a kong tyre which she loves chewing whether they are filled or not. She also loves dental chews and raw carrots. I might try bones, but they are rather hard ...

We actually had an antigulp bowl for our last dog so I might dig that out as it may make dinner last a bit longer.

Bones are hard but they're so good for their teeth and health. Dogs have strong teeth and jaws and if feral, would be eating raw carcasses everyday.

Just make sure they're not weight bearing bones for safety. I feed the raw meaty bones you get from Morrisons - you can get a pack of six for less than £2 and they can be frozen too. I think they're just ribs or similar.

I also wondered if your dog may possibly be picking up on stress too (alongside the adolescent stage)? You said it’s been very stressful and you’re exhausted, your husband has been really stressed too. All understandable given what’s been going on. I wonder if your dog is picking a little of that up aswell and playing up. My dog definitely does and she is 9 soon. For instance if I have an emotional chat with someone I can guarantee that my dog will repetitively yap at me and go into some full on crazy mode of dog gymnastics.

Just a thought as it’s all coincided with a change in your dogs life since March and lockdown.

Just came to say I feel your pain, or at least in some way.

I've started threads and joined puppy support threads but I can't really keep up. I have a 9 month old male border terrier, and he is very smart, very wilful, and full of energy. ALL. THE. TIME. I actually had to remove his basket of toys because he couldn't leave them alone, he has to have supervised playtime otherwise he's relentless.

Today, he's had 3 walks - 50 mins + 15 mins + 20 mins (I'm working full time from home). He has part of his breakfast after walk one followed by the rest of it in a frozen kong; he has a short lunchtime walk (sometimes I'll take the neighbours dog with us for variety) followed by another frozen kong; then another 20 minutes walk before dinner, and tonight he met two dogs and raced around off lead like a lunatic for 10 minutes. He has an antler bone and a nylabone kicking around all the time, but after his dinner I'll produce a braided lamb chew or similar, and we play a quick chasing game with it (or maybe one of his other toys) before he flings it around, rolls on it and settles down for a chew so we can eat our dinner in peace.

In between all that activity and kongs and chews, I might throw in the odd cardboard box for him to shred to occupy him for a while - but he doesn't really snooze, he just paces, and whines, and whistles, and paws my leg while I'm on calls. I ignore him so he just runs up and down the stairs barking inanely at nothing.

He goes to a dog walker for 2 mornings a week where he races around with up to 4 dogs for 4 hours, including a long walk. He's barely even tired when he gets home.

I think my one is broken, there is no off switch. I'm praying that he calms down with age...

You are doing better than me. We have a working Collie/ working Cocker cross who is 19 months old. I know from experience that farm collies are very territorial and don't get on well with other dogs,so made a real effort with him. We took him everywhere,did puppy socialization,had a one to one trainer,then signed up for basic obedience. We were asked to leave and offered a refund after the second class. He just cannot focus in a room with other dogs and barks and lunges. Bizarrely,I can walk him around the nearest town,take him in shops and pubs,and he will behave impeccably. Other dogs can go for him and he won't react. At home,in the village,he regards everything as his and is dreadful, growling, pulling,barking and trying to get at nearly every dog he sees.
He's very very clever,so we took him to agility. He got everything first go,but then lost his focus because of the other dogs in the room,so we were asked to leave that class too.
His recall is poor, I take him shepherding with me,but he has to stay on a long line as if the sheep start running,he loses the plot. He's got a good eye and can tell before me when they are going to break,but he hasn't got the herding instinct. He's currently barking at his treat ball,because it isn't doing what he wants.🙄

@TheFnozwhowasmirage find better classes I know that's easier said than done but:

• asking you to leave a training class without giving you other ways of getting support (e.g. 1 to 1s or enough distance that he doesn't react etc - lots of options)

• asking you to leave agility because your dog finds others distracting, without instead helping you look for ways to keep him enagaged and slwoly get used to the others in the roon.

...are not the signs of good trainers and/or the signs of trainers operating in inadequate locations that don't provide the space some dogs need. I've been in and out of training and agility worlds and, believe me, good trainers would work with you to find ways to make your dog successful. Not just boot you out because your dog needs a bit more than most and it exposes their weaknesses as trainers

They are out there, so don't give up if you want to keep going with activities, such as agility. Often the ones labelled as fun or beginners are more forgiving than those training for competition.